Shmups that suck but you can't help but like

[CIT]

Kind of the counterpart to this thread.

What shooters that can't really stand up to critical scrutiny do you like nonetheless (or perhaps even because of their flaws)? And what do you like about them?

Some of mine:

Gun Frontier

Flaws:
- painfully slow player ship
- imbalanced scoring
- stupid rank system that is tied to your rate of fire
- difficult to recover from deaths
- annoying final boss "duel"

Why I still like it:
- brilliant atmosphere of decay and nostalgia transported through the graphics and particularly the soundtrack
- really cool design concepts (flying guns)
- the many ideas it contributed to Battle Garegga (bomb system, scoring secrets, parts destruction, flamingos )

BlaZeon

Flaws:
- painfully slow player ships, except for one that is stupidly fast
- clunky, big-ass player sprites with retarded hitboxes
- painfully slow and boring stages with pretty much nonexistent level-design
- on the other hand, brutal and fast bosses that are difficult to practice (especially when you need to keep playing through the stages to reach them again)
- SNES version has 30-40 second stretches where literally nothing happens at all

Why I still like it:
- Superb soundtrack!
- pretty good Irem-style graphics
- some of the bosses are really cool and fun to fight
- arcade version has a very nice animated attract mode
- SNES version has 30-40 second stretches where literally nothing happens at all —> it's quite convenient to take a bathroom break or pour yourself another beer or just to chill and listen to the game's music

[Bananamatic]

Isn't that the same thing though?

I'd just mention Einhänder again, hard to like yet hard to dislike

Also Dimahoo

[Squire Grooktook]

Uhhhh...I guess Sol Divide seems like it could be fun to me under certain circumstances.

Probably doesn't count as "sucking" but everyone hates Esp Ra.Des scoring system (due to the boss milking) but I find the game very fun to play if you disregard that part.

[VHS-porn]

Clannada is kinda lame but I still think its fun.

[CIT]

Isn't that the same thing though?

I'd just mention Einhänder again, hard to like yet hard to dislike

Also Dimahoo

I'd say the difference is the following:

In the other thread most of the games mentioned were ones where the general consensus is that they are at least pretty decent. So it was about games where you can understand why according to "objective" criteria the game is good, but you still dislike it for some reason.

This thread should be about games where the general consensus is that they are bad, and you can also totally understand why the game sucks, but like it nonetheless for some bizarre reason.

Make sense?

[Obiwanshinobi]

What is the "general consensus" about shmups?
There are, at best, games people don't talk shit about, but I'm pretty sure R-Type or the first Gradius are sincerely disliked by many gamers raised on bullet hell.

[CIT]

What is the "general consensus" about shmups?

For example:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=44687
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35212

[Obiwanshinobi]

Plebiscite does not equal consensus. If 25% is dislpleased with something 75% is pleased with, that does not mean everybody is 75% pleased.

[rjosal]

What is the "general consensus" about shmups?
There are, at best, games people don't talk shit about, but I'm pretty sure R-Type or the first Gradius are sincerely disliked by many gamers raised on bullet hell.

I wasn't "raised" on bullet hell, but I really like R-Type, and I really like Cave. I need diversity.

On topic, I like Gradius III more than Gradius II despite its stupid difficulty and the cube rush.

[shmuppyLove]

touhou

[gs68]

Gradius ReBirth. It's only 5 stages, you can't select your sheild independently from your weapon loadout, but stages are still varied enough, the weapons are fun to use (even if activating Type E's double or laser makes the game unwinnable in certain circumstances), and the references to past Gradius games, especially the MSX Gradius games, are quite amusing.

And best of all, harder difficulties = higher loops rather than just "add more bullets". Granted, the unique additions stop coming after loop 3, but I can't even 3-ALL the game anyway.

[Vyxx]

Rezon.

God I love that game, love it way more than the R-type games that it clearly rips off...

[Crafty+Mech]

Aerofighters... cheesy compared to the Strikers series, but one of the stages has a catchy tune that always gets stuck in my head.

[Eno]

STG Strike Gunner. I think I can withstand any amount of kusogeness as long as the game gives me enough weapons to play with. Also the nostalgia value.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Most Amiga shit.

[Leandro]

Arbalester

[louisg]

Most Amiga shit.

YES. I love a few Amiga shmups that really aren't that great. I can defend them, but they aren't quite up to what you get on console or arcade. Then there's Iridion II and Nanostray 2, both of which are cool but have some problems. I also really dig Sturmwind, which has its share of issues.

[chempop]

Trap15

[louisg]

Oh I also should add Astro Warrior to the pile

[Herr Schatten]

Oh I also should add Astro Warrior to the pile

I think that one's actually pretty decent, albeit short.

[SuperSoaker360]

touhou

[trap15]

- stupid rank system that is tied to your rate of fire

The rank is actually only minimally influenced by rate of fire. Like Garegga, the rank comes from lots of sources. The biggest source, however, is your score...

- difficult to recover from deaths

I never really had any problem recovering, but I do play lots of checkpoint-based games.

- annoying final boss "duel"

Annoying!? How!? It's so damn cool!


On topic: Every game that I like.

[BIL]

I got some fun out of XDR/X-Dazedly Ray on the MD. I was expecting a total J-Euroshmup fiasco from its reputation, but it's merely an SMS-looking Gradius knockoff.

[dunpeal2064]

I don't think these games suck but they certainly aren't talked about much around here:

Last Hope: Pink Bullets - Up there with Metal Black in terms of atmosphere. Rock-solid game play, and a "memorizer" with a scoring system!

Vapor Trail - I love the very small amount of music in this game, the way the guy says "Vapor Trail", the power ups, the roll.

Thunder Dragon - Techno bullets and a chunky ship. Whats not to love?

[TransatlanticFoe]

Oh I also should add Astro Warrior to the pile

No way! Sure it's a Star Force rip-off but it's actually playable and still fun. Pretty great for a 1986 console release.

[louisg]

Oh I also should add Astro Warrior to the pile

No way! Sure it's a Star Force rip-off but it's actually playable and still fun. Pretty great for a 1986 console release.

Yeah, I do agree. It's often criticized as being very basic, which it is. It's not timeless, though.

In that vein, I'll also stick up for the Amiga edition of Battle Squadron. I think it's excellent for, what, a 1988 home release? It's a pretty decent Toaplan-like well before Raiden! But, in the larger scheme of things, neither game (Astro Warrior or Battle Squadron) is really all that great. They don't hold up like, say, Galaga '88 or earlier games do. But, I still like 'em.

[BulletMagnet]

I don't think Axelay "sucks" per se, but it is a bit wonky gameplay-wise...regardless, I still enjoy playing it from time to time because 1) The presentation is still something to behold after all these years, and 2) It's one of the earliest shooters I tried out back before I was really "into" the genre, so even if it doesn't hold up well in some areas it'll always be a bit special personally in that regard.

[ACSeraph]

Deathsmiles IIX and both Otomedius games

[ratikal]

Metal Black

- Weak ship
- Very memo based
- No real replay value or score system (1cc, no miss, then I guess milk Newalones for 10 points each)
- Bland gameplay

+ Amazing presentation
+ The bonus stages, while redundant, are cool as shit.
+ Great setting
+ Zuntastic music

This STG is basically an RPG you only play for the story.

[Squire Grooktook]

I don't think Axelay "sucks" per se, but it is a bit wonky gameplay-wise...regardless, I still enjoy playing it from time to time because 1) The presentation is still something to behold after all these years, and 2) It's one of the earliest shooters I tried out back before I was really "into" the genre, so even if it doesn't hold up well in some areas it'll always be a bit special personally in that regard.

I think it has great level design and fun bosses, but it does have some issues:

1: Most of the weapons suck. Most people I know (myself included) use basically nothing but round vulcan + Macro missiles

2: For a consolized shmup, could have used an extra stage. Feels a bit short, especially compounded by the difficulty (see below).

3: Even hard mode is pretty easy for a genre veteran. They should have made V.Hard accessible without having to loop the game, and why they didn't add infinite Gradius style loops I'll never know, since it kinda kills the game from a scoring perspective imo. Also I should note that the difficulty spike on the last stage feels really weird compared to the rest of the game.