Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[fagin]

SCART is an absolute positive from an EU users perspective - at least in regards to not needing to buy any other convertor. It's an ease of use positive.

[Magicalbottle]

Yeah guys, I'm located in the EU and already have RGB scart cables for all my retro stuff. Thanks, although I have another question: which of those PVM's I listed has on screen menus for geometry? The QM needs to be opened up IIRC.

PVM-20M4E
PVM-20M2E
PVM-20N6E
PVM-2130QM

[nyder]

Now that I have got all my conoles hooked up to my PVM's, I am aiming to get mame hooked up to my tated PVM-2530.


Do I NEED one of these?

http://arcadeforge.net/UMSA:::15.html

Cheers,

Nyd

[AZA]

Hey Fudoh, have you thought about putting a tinted piece of plexiglass in front of the plasma to darken the blacks? I've seen quite a few of the guys building cabs over at BYOAC do that to punch up the contrast of their monitors.

I had a PVM-1271Q like this one:



As you can see it has a smoked glass cover over the screen. I used this monitor as my vertical setup next to my desktop for a long time. I mostly played classic games on it like Galaga, Donkey Kong, Phoenix, Pac-man, etc.

It was great. With the smoked glass, and the brightness turned down just til the black background of the game becomes a black abyss, and the contrast turned up just a little bit the games looked probably the best I've ever seen them. It really reminded me of playing on an old school cabinet more than any monitor I've ever had.

I don't think it would just be beneficial to the plasma, I think any monitor can look good through them. I'd really love to see the BVM through one.

The monitor in the picture was mine.. I bought it at a flea market in Kentucky for $5.00 Ended up needing a TON of work so i just recycled it as the cost of repairing it wouldnt be worth the price of a working monitor.

[rtw]

I need some help in deciding the best way of getting all my consoles connected to my new TV which just has HDMI.

All consoles were previously connected to my SONY CRT via a SCART switcher so I already have SCART cables for all my consoles.

I have the following:

. Framemeister
. SCART adapter for the Framemeister
. SCART switcher

. XBOX
. PS2
. TG16

The PS2 and XBOX both have component outputs. Would you recommend using these instead of SCART ?

If component is the best, does anyone have any recommendations for a good component switcher ?

I also need a good HDMI switcher, does anyone have any recommendations ? I bought one model but that does not work with my PS3

[Fudoh]

It's a bit about balancing quality versus usability. On the PS2 the component signal has considerably more noise than the RGB signal, but with component it's so much easier to switch between 15 and 31khz. I'm also not a fan of the Framemeister's 480p upscaling. For 480p I prefer a direct component to HDMI conversion.

You could get a 2x2 component switch, connect both PS2 and XBox to the switch, connect one output of the switch to the Framemeister (for 240p and 480i) and connect the other to a YUV to HDMI converter. Unfortunately that involves extra cost, so it's really up to you and how you like the Framemeister's 480p processing.

[leonk]

I also need a good HDMI switcher, does anyone have any recommendations ? I bought one model but that does not work with my PS3

Any decent modern stereo amp will also be a good HDMI switcher.

[rtw]

Thank you for the information regarding component versus SCART.

I think I will got the component way on the XBOX/PS2 and Gamecube (forgot this one)

Then I will use the Gefen with the Dreamcast in VGA mode.

TG16 will go to the Framemeister and from there into an HDMI switcher.

So that means I will need an HDMI switcher (I don't have an amplifier with HDMI switching) as well as a component switcher. Does anyone have any recommendations ? I want something which will work flawlessly.

edit: forgot the TG16

[Fudoh]

So that means I will need an HDMI switcher (I don't have an amplifier with HDMI switching) as well as a component switcher. Does anyone have any recommendations ? I want something which will work flawlessly.

component: whatever you can find. The bandwith you're using with 480p signals is so low that quality hardly matters. Some switchers get slightly blurry with higher resolutions lke 720p or 1080i, but I yet have to see one that causes problems with 480p.

For HDMI: just make sure to get an active one with it's own PSU. Everything else is crap.

[rtw]

Thanks for the suggestions Fudoh

I started playing with the Frame Meister and my TG16. The TG16 is modded so that it outputs RGB via a SCART connector. I have verified that it's outputting RGB and not composite. If I connect the SCART from the TG16 to my flat screen TV using its built in SCART connector all is OK except the quality of the picture.

On the Frame Meister I am using an adapter from the Mini-DIN to a SCART female connector. The cable is made by: retro gaming cables.

When I connect everything together and select RGB-IN on the Frame Meister I do not get a video signal, however the music from the game plays so that leads me to believing the chain is setup correctly.

I connected my PS2 via the component input on the Frame Meister and that worked OK.

Any suggestions to how to debug this issue or should I get another cable ? I checked the FAQ and retro-access.com seems to have gone out of business.

[Fudoh]

When I connect everything together and select RGB-IN on the Frame Meister I do not get a video signal, however the music from the game plays so that leads me to believing the chain is setup correctly.

3 possibilities:

a) a wire in the adapter cable got lose
b) grounds don't connect (check which ground wires are present in the adapter and which ones in the TG16 cable)
c) you need to increase the RGB sync level in the XRGB menu.

[rtw]

a) a wire in the adapter cable got lose
b) grounds don't connect (check which ground wires are present in the adapter and which ones in the TG16 cable)
c) you need to increase the RGB sync level in the XRGB menu.

a) correct blue is loose but that should still give a signal.
b) grounds are connected
c) not yet...

I had a look inside the retro gaming cable. It is equipped with a small PCB with an LM1881. The chip is powered using the Status & Aspect Ratio i.e. pin 8. However the SCART cable out of my TG16 does not have anything connected to this pin.

I have 3 questions:

1) Why is the LM1881 circuit needed ? The TG16 outputs CSYNC already.
2) Can I short circuit the LM1881 circuit and just feed the CSYNC directly from the TG16 to the FM ?
3) I can modify the cable from my TG16 (not trivial need to remove a shield) to supply 5V to pin 8. Will a 4K7 resistor in series be enough to limit the current ?

[Fudoh]

1) In general the LM1881 is not needed. Doesn't even matter if your source does output raw sync or not. There are certain systems where a LM1881 can help, but in general it causes more trouble than it helps.

2) sure. And you should.

3) yes, but I always found the 5V line in my PCEs not stable enough to get good results from a LM1881.

[rtw]

@Fudoh, thank you for all your help regarding the LM1881 and my Frame Meister!

I pulled out the soldering iron and after removing the LM1881 and adding the blue component wire back again everything is fine!

[BubbaMc]

Finally found an analog input board for the BVM A series, been playing Bangai-o in glorious 240P all weekend. Very happy, will post pics soon!

[cools]

Took this a while back, only just posted: https://plus.google.com/106019571274193 ... AYMcYYn3aA

Deathsmiles running in 15KHz on a Toshiba D29C051

[Lawfer]

It's a bit about balancing quality versus usability. On the PS2 the component signal has considerably more noise than the RGB signal, but with component it's so much easier to switch between 15 and 31khz..

Oh, so you are saying that on Playstation 2, if you play Playstation 1 games in 240p, RGBs delivers a better picture quality compared to YPbPr (component cable)?

Finally found an analog input board for the BVM A series, been playing Bangai-o in glorious 240P all weekend. Very happy, will post pics soon!

Whats the name of the board?

[Fudoh]

it does, yes, but it's not neccessarily visible on all setups. Some monitors and processors have fantastic A/D stages and filters while others show a very noisy picture with component from a PS2.

[Lawfer]

it does, yes, but it's not neccessarily visible on all setups. Some monitors and processors have fantastic A/D stages and filters while others show a very noisy picture with component from a PS2.

Oh I see thanks, was wondering because I played quite a few US Playstation 1 games on my US Playstation 2 with the official component cable and it looked better than ever.

[TheShadowRunner]

Whats the name of the board?

That'd be a BKM-68X.

[Lawfer]

Whats the name of the board?

That'd be a BKM-68X.

Thanks! Are those stuff eady to hook up?

[TheShadowRunner]

Thanks! Are those stuff eady to hook up?

Yes, plug & play ;)

[Lawfer]

Thanks! Are those stuff eady to hook up?

Yes, plug & play

Thats a relief, thank you for letting me know.

[BubbaMc]

Whats the name of the board?

That'd be a BKM-68X.

Thanks! Are those stuff eady to hook up?

Very easy, but it took me 4 months to find one, and that was trawling ebay daily.

[Newbie]

Newbie here, which one of these do you guys think is the better deal?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-PVM-20L5-H ... 43c1a94896
$300 Sony PVM-20LM from January 2004

Or

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-TRINITRON- ... 5900671%26

$370 Sony BVM-20F1U from November 1998

Anyone know the weight on each of these as well?

[Fudoh]

The BVM is the better monitor, but the L5 is a multisync monitor able to display 480p as well. Both are a bit overpriced.

The BVM is 82 lbs without extension boards or control unit. The L5 is 70 lbs. I'd choose the BVM over the L5, but it's certainly at the higher end of the price spectrum.

PS: And I would NEVER consider having monitors like those shipped internally. Too much of a risk.

[Lawfer]

PS: And I would NEVER consider having monitors like those shipped internally. Too much of a risk.

Shipped internally?

[Lord of Pirates]

PS: And I would NEVER consider having monitors like those shipped internally. Too much of a risk.

Shipped internally?

Internationally, I presume. It would cost an obscene amount to ship something so heavy to another country and be at greater risk of being damaged.

[Fudoh]

ups, yes, of course. Internationally. The prices Newbie called out is exactly what the sellers ask for the monitors plus international shipping, so I assume he is or was looking into this.

[Newbie]

No, I live in Minnesota. I haven't seen anyone selling these on craigslist unfortunately. Don't no where else to get one. The price is a little more than I would like to pay but I haven't seen any that are less expensive, the demand must have went up.

Anyone buy from ebay and had it shipped? Did it come OK? Any sellers you can recommend?

Thanks.