Can GameCube games be forced to 240p?

[rCadeGaming]

First, you're referring to Gamecube and VC games as "interlaced games." Most Gamecube games are compatible with both 480i (interlaced) and 480p (progressive). They could run in either on a real Gamecube. A few Gamecube games could run in 240p as well. VC games could also be a variety of resolutions. The games from older consoles are generally around 240p (progressive).

Second, if the Wii is set to 480p, it doesn't output in anything but 480p. Period. Nothing interlaced "goes through to the TV." When you load a VC game it's line-doubled or scaled up to 480p (or maybe run directly in 480p if it's a newer game). When you load a Gamecube game, it runs directly in 480p, just like it could on a real Gamecube. If a particular Gamecube game is not compatible with running directly in 480p, it can't load.

[BitFaced]

First, you're referring to Gamecube and VC games as "interlaced games." Most Gamecube games are compatible with both 480i (interlaced) and 480p (progressive). They could run in either on a real Gamecube. A few Gamecube games could run in 240p as well. VC games could also be a variety of resolutions. The games from older consoles are generally around 240p (progressive).

Second, if the Wii is set to 480p, it doesn't output in anything but 480p. Period. Nothing interlaced "goes through to the TV." When you load a VC game it's line-doubled or scaled up to 480p (or maybe run directly in 480p if it's a newer game). When you load a Gamecube game, it runs directly in 480p, just like it could on a real Gamecube. If a particular Gamecube game is not compatible with running directly in 480p, it can't load.

I'll add that I'm mostly using a PAL Wii and games.

[Ed Oscuro]

Replace 240p with 288p, and 480p with 576p, then (unless Nintendo is sending along NTSC-region games for the VC, which would be a good idea except that local displays are likely to hold this back - I believe that the VC actually selects 288p and 576i for VC titles mainly).

[blizzz]

There is no such thing as 576p on a PAL Wii. VC games are 288p or 576i (with the exception of a handfull of import titles that work at 480i/p) and GC is 576i or 480i.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ah, I've read about this before - apparently there is actually a technical support for it (it's mentioned here and there) but it's just not used in games, again hearkening back to the very NTSC roots of the console. 480p upscaled or 576i most likely. And I'm glad to see I got the VC part right.

This really looks like an area where importing would make things so much better. With the VC, not only are you getting GameCube/Wii titles with the original designed resolution, but hopefully you can get access to 240p games on the VC. Two problematic resolution and framerate differences killed at once by the right choice of console and display. Granted it might not be that easy, and I don't know if they do anything to detect your location and try to push you toward the European VC shop...but I'd say it's worth a try.

Multiple sources are stating 480p is definitely doable for disc games on the Wii, along with the 50/60Hz switch, so I don't know if you're saying that 480i / 576i are more universally supported, but 480p definitely has some support, assuming you just have a display that can do it.

[blizzz]

576i (50Hz) / 480i (60Hz) are the native resolutions for PAL GCN games. Most Wii games here are 480p and you can actually force some GC games to 480p/576p too.

A PAL copy of AC should output a 50Hz 576i signal if your Wii is set to 480p, which should work on every European TV. I don't have the disc here, so I can't test it, but I don't see why it wouldn't.

[rCadeGaming]

To put it more simply then, if you set the Wii to 15kHz, it will only output 15kHz. If you set it to 31kHz, it will only output 31kHz.

[BitFaced]

This really looks like an area where importing would make things so much better. With the VC, not only are you getting GameCube/Wii titles with the original designed resolution, but hopefully you can get access to 240p games on the VC. Two problematic resolution and framerate differences killed at once by the right choice of console and display. Granted it might not be that easy, and I don't know if they do anything to detect your location and try to push you toward the European VC shop...but I'd say it's worth a try.

I'm not sure if I'd still be able to keep my purchases after that, but that would be cool.
And really, the Wii can't do 576p even though its predecessor did?

576i (50Hz) / 480i (60Hz) are the native resolutions for PAL GCN games. Most Wii games here are 480p and you can actually force some GC games to 480p/576p too.

A PAL copy of AC should output a 50Hz 576i signal if your Wii is set to 480p, which should work on every European TV. I don't have the disc here, so I can't test it, but I don't see why it wouldn't.

That of which I have, but I haven't been able to successfully force Animal Crossing (PAL) to progressive or to get NES games playing through Component on the PAL Wii set in the Wii settings to 480p (anyone know how I could do the former with Devolution?)

To put it more simply then, if you set the Wii to 15kHz, it will only output 15kHz. If you set it to 31kHz, it will only output 31kHz.

But I still get GameCube games that aren't progressive working through the Wii set to 31kHz through Component.

[Fudoh]

But I still get GameCube games that aren't progressive working through the Wii set to 31kHz through Component.

Is that so ? Never knew. Might have to give this a try one day. Can you say how good the deinterlacing is ? Bugged me for over a decade now that Super Monkey Ball and a few other Cube releases didn't support progressive scan.

[blizzz]

There is no deinterlacing. The games simply run in 15kHz.

[rCadeGaming]

You're saying that the console actually outputs 15kHz even though it's set to 31kHz? Are you sure?

[BitFaced]

You're saying that the console actually outputs 15kHz even though it's set to 31kHz? Are you sure?

Yup, the PAL Wii is set to 480p through Component and you can still play interlaced 480i/576i 15kHz PAL GameCube games through it.

[rCadeGaming]

Then why doesn't Animal Crossing work? I think that's what you're missing. I don't think it actually outputs 15kHz when set to 31kHz. The Gamecube games that do work are either those that can run directly in 31kHz, or are able to be upscaled/deinterlaced.

Either way, I don't think it actually outputs 15kHz when set to 31kHz. I can't see Nintendo allowing it to just jump around, ignoring your video settings, and if it did, there wouldn't be a problem with Animal Crossing.

...was looking for a response from blizz...

[blizzz]

I'll grab my PAL copy of AC tomorrow and test it... I should also still have my save file with a bunch of NES machines.

[BitFaced]

I'll grab my PAL copy of AC tomorrow and test it... I should also still have my save file with a bunch of NES machines.

Well okay then.
Though can you force progressive at all in Devolution for games that aren't supported?

[blizzz]

So, after sitting through 15 minutes of Resetti's talk and being forced to say "I stink", I can confirm that the PAL copy of Animal Crossing runs at 576i 50Hz when your Wii is set to 480p 60Hz. Then, after being painfully reminded of an ex-gf, I found that the NES games run at 288p. Well, most likely. I didn't check it with a device that actually knows the difference between 576i and 288p, but it looks like VC games in 288p mode.

Also, the animals are all super depressed because it has apparently been 94 months since my last visit in the town. I did remember the town layout though, even after all this time. It's such an amazing game.

[BitFaced]

So, after sitting through 15 minutes of Resetti's talk and being forced to say "I stink", I can confirm that the PAL copy of Animal Crossing runs at 576i 50Hz when your Wii is set to 480p 60Hz. Then, after being painfully reminded of an ex-gf, I found that the NES games run at 288p. Well, most likely. I didn't check it with a device that actually knows the difference between 576i and 288p, but it looks like VC games in 288p mode.

Also, the animals are all super depressed because it has apparently been 94 months since my last visit in the town. I did remember the town layout though, even after all this time. It's such an amazing game.

It is. And I knew it'd be something like that! Did I say 240p instead of 288p at times?

[blizzz]

I've set the Wii to 480p, but interlaced games (GameCube, VC) still go through it to the TV. But the Animal Crossing games in (interlaced) Animal Crossing don't whatsoever, whatever mode they're in.

Oh, you meant the NES games with that? Yea, guess your TV doesn't accept 240p/288p on component.

[rCadeGaming]

Wait a minute, you're saying Animal Crossing itself doesn't have a problem loading at all, just the NES games within it? Come on, that wasn't clear made clear at all. You just said "Animal Crossing games."

Weren't Animal Crossing games in 240p? Because they don't work on the Wii in progressive to the HD TV over Component.

You made it sound like Animal Crossing itself wouldn't load, and everything I've said was based on that assumption, so now I see why it didn't make sense.

That is still odd that the Wii will allow itself to output 15kHz when it's set to 31kHz. I guess the setting just tells it to output 31kHz when possible, and otherwise to output 15kHz. I could have accepted that, it just wasn't consistent with Animal Crossing not being able to load (which apparently is not the case).

I can't see Nintendo allowing it to just jump around, ignoring your video settings, and if it did, there wouldn't be a problem with Animal Crossing.

Oh man, I apologize. This thread is f***ed.

[BitFaced]

Wait a minute, you're saying Animal Crossing itself doesn't have a problem loading at all, just the NES games within it? Come on, that wasn't clear made clear at all. You just said "Animal Crossing games."

You made it sound like Animal Crossing itself wouldn't load, and everything I've said was based on that assumption, so now I see why it didn't make sense.

That is still odd that the Wii will allow itself to output 15kHz when it's set to 31kHz. I guess the setting just tells it to output 31kHz when possible, and otherwise to output 15kHz. I could have accepted that, it just wasn't consistent with Animal Crossing not being able to load (which apparently is not the case).

Oh damn I should have mentioned they were NES.

I've set the Wii to 480p, but interlaced games (GameCube, VC) still go through it to the TV. But the Animal Crossing games in (interlaced) Animal Crossing don't whatsoever, whatever mode they're in.

Oh, you meant the NES games with that? Yea, guess your TV doesn't accept 240p/288p on component.

You know it.

[BitFaced]

UPDATE!
Upon changing the Wii's video mode to 576i (50HZ) and booting up the Swiss homebrew application, the TV read it as 576p@50HZ. So yes, the Wii can definitely do 576p.

[Ed Oscuro]

Not a surprise since I found it mentioned explicitly on a homebrewing site. It just doesn't seem to have been used for games.

[BitFaced]

Not a surprise since I found it mentioned explicitly on a homebrewing site. It just doesn't seem to have been used for games.

So not even forced progressive PAL 50HZ 576i GameCube games?

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, I'll put it this way - I still haven't seen any reference to that being done. I would hope it could, but it doesn't seem to have been. Of course you can use forced modes, but these aren't reliable in all cases (see link below).

The GameCube's video chip, Flipper, wasn't exactly organized for massive fill rate, and 576p has the same fill requirements as 480p (based on a quick calculation of 480p60 pixel rate and 576p50 pixel rate - both come to the same number, e.g 640 * 480 * 60 = 18,432,000 = 640 * 576 * 60) but different formatting requirements which may have made it more trouble to implement than many developers would bother wth.

We can go back to Swiss for a second for a nice write-up of the situation and some information about what you can do:
http://www.gc-forever.com/wiki/index.ph ... ility_List