Zelda: A Link to The Past 2

[BryanM]

This may or may not be a good time to mention that I have a fetish for women dressed up as Link.

It's th3 best time

[Skykid]

Also: Link suddenly transforming into a 2-frame animated chalk drawing on dungeon walls... I don't know whether I'm laughing or crying, nor whether irony is involved.

Just a new dungeon tool, I'm sure its implementation will be absolutely golden.

[Moniker]

Ya, no doubt. It was just so jarringly odd.

I guess the other thing that concerns me is the emphasis on depth and movement between floors. Inter-floor confusion is one of the few things I thought could've been done better in the original. They've since improved upon it, though.

[BulletMagnet]

In similar fashion to the Wind Waker remake there will be some manner of higher difficulty level to try, though here you have to beat the game first to unlock it.

[replayme]

I hate Nintendo hardware - cheap, tacky, pricey, prehistoric.

Coming from someone who used to love the Super Nintendo - because back then, Nintendo really were super, I have only come to be disappointed by Nintendo's hardware strategy over the last few years. The Wii U is a useless heap of plastic, while the 3DS pales against the technically superior Vita.

That said, and even if I'm not convinced by the art style, the new 3DS Zelda is literally one of the few games that is making me regret my recent Vita purchase. As much as I want to believe that the Nintendo of old is dead, games like this keep pulling me back in.

I have every intention of purchasing a 3DS around the time of the game's release, and hope that Nintendo follow up with some Capcom developed Zelda games, as most of the 3D Zelda games have always left me cold. I liked Ocarina of Time, but that's really the only 3D Zelda game I've ever liked, and just find the 2D Zelda games to be more consistent in terms of me liking them.

Speaking of which, and as stated previously about only recently buying a Vita, I've been playing Gravity Rush. Such an excellent game that is, and certainly gives Nintendo games a good run for their money. In some ways, it makes me realise that Sony developers are also really talented, with games like Gravity Rush and Shadow of the Colossus going up against Nintendo's very best. And if this is the case, then Sony really are the new Nintendo - as the PS4 will have awesome first party games coupled with amazing third party support.

The Wii U is this generation's Dreamcast. Regardless of how good first party games are, the general industry doesn't want to touch it, and most people are skipping it so as to wait for next gen consoles.

[trap15]

the 3DS pales against the technically superior Vita.

At least the 3DS, uhh, has games.

Nintendo's strategy has always been, to quote one of the wisest men who ever lived, "Lateral thinking with withered technology".

[replayme]

the 3DS pales against the technically superior Vita.

At least the 3DS, uhh, has games.

Nintendo's strategy has always been, to quote one of the wisest men who ever lived, "Lateral thinking with withered technology".

I'm not disputing that. But the 3DS looks really shitty when going up against the Vita. It just feels cheap and nasty.

I kind of liken the 3DS/Vita situation to the Wii/PS360 situation. The Wii did phenomenally well initially, but as soon as the other consoles reached comparable price points, the market left it for dust. The Vita is cheaper now than the 3DS XL. When mire people start seeing how nice the Vita is in comparison, they'll start switching over - which will have an effect on the number of games released.

Edit: regarding the "lateral thinking..." quote, I would agree if the technology was appropriately priced. But it's not. Nintendo charge next-gen prices for current gen tech. And that's a rip-off in my book. I like getting a fair rate of investment, and Nintendo don't play fair.

[Skykid]

Eh, a console is only as good as its games. I have a few reservations about the 3DS XL but nothing deal-breaking, and I quite enjoy the 3D effect. Still not an abundance of titles I'm clamouring to play, but definitely enjoyed everything I've gone through so far.

If this Zelda is of the same quality of engineering as 3D Land was, then the console has done more than enough to warrant a purchase. But damn, do I have my fingers crossed over that last one. Do not want another Spirit Tracks.

[Ed Oscuro]

Nintendo charge next-gen prices for current gen tech. And that's a rip-off in my book. I like getting a fair rate of investment, and Nintendo don't play fair.

I'd say they charge current-gen prices for last-gen tech, and have done so since the GBA SP era. They have merely gotten smarter (depending on who you ask) in flogging new updates and compatibility with old versions more regularly, whereas in the GBA era they relied upon format upgrades to do the same.

[BryanM]

The Vita is cheaper now than the 3DS XL.

wat

When mire people start seeing how nice the Vita is in comparison, they'll start switching over - which will have an effect on the number of games released.

wat

I can only see this in my mind's eye:



"A failed game console that's half as successful as the Game Gear has a chance of being comparable in output to something that's on a trajectory that could end up as the #1 best selling console of all time" is just really overreaching it. The library of the Vita will never be impressive.

I used to be able to say "well, at least it has Everybody's Golf", but the 3DS has its Mario Golf title now so unless you really love old PSX2 games from ten years ago or missed out on them, the Vita's got nuthin'.

Also: the number one selling game right now is selling better than the rest of the top 20 combined. I guess it just reminds me how the XBox and Psx does business this days. They make a black box and hope some American 3rd party developers will do all the hard work. Who wants to play Call of Doodie on a portable? Nobody. Ergo: Vita's marketshare.

It's like, Ouya kind of shit, almost. Invest in some games. Put a ten years worth of effort in franchises to answer Mario, Zelda, Pokemon. With something signature that isn't an exact clone.

But if it'll help I'll send hate mail to nintendo for you complaining about the resolution? We can get some of that sweet 640x480 action on one screen by the 4DS if we work together, 'nom sayin'?

[replayme]

The Vita is cheaper now than the 3DS XL.

wat

When mire people start seeing how nice the Vita is in comparison, they'll start switching over - which will have an effect on the number of games released.

wat

I can only see this in my mind's eye:



"A failed game console that's half as successful as the Game Gear has a chance of being comparable in output to something that's on a trajectory that could end up as the #1 best selling console of all time" is just really overreaching it. The library of the Vita will never be impressive.

I used to be able to say "well, at least it has Everybody's Golf", but the 3DS has its Mario Golf title now so unless you really love old PSX2 games from ten years ago or missed out on them, the Vita's got nuthin'.

Also: the number one selling game right now is selling better than the rest of the top 20 combined. I guess it just reminds me how the XBox and Psx does business this days. They make a black box and hope some American 3rd party developers will do all the hard work. Who wants to play Call of Doodie on a portable? Nobody. Ergo: Vita's marketshare.

It's like, Ouya kind of shit, almost. Invest in some games. Put a ten years worth of effort in franchises to answer Mario, Zelda, Pokemon. With something signature that isn't an exact clone.

But if it'll help I'll send hate mail to nintendo for you complaining about the resolution? We can get some of that sweet 640x480 action on one screen by the 4DS if we work together, 'nom sayin'?

Fanboy much?

Care to explain how Nintendo have come last in the console hardware race on the last two occasions, against upstarts like Sony and MS who don't have as illustrious a heritage?

Sorry man, but the Vita does have games. And it is cheaper than the 3DS XL. I bought mine for £130 (brand new) only a few days ago. Oled screen. 10 games. 8 gig card. Brand new sealed.

The 3DS doesn't offer anywhere near the same kind of value. When more people start seeing the stark differences, they will start switching over. Oh, and your CoD example was bad - as the game was rubbish. At least try to present an intelligent argument if you're going to defend Nintendo.

Edit: your argument about people not wanting console games on handheld would hold water, if not for the fact that Starfox, Zelda OoT etc were console games. Even the latest Zelda has its lineage in a console game.

Edit x 2: talking about "no games"... Even after (nearly) one year, the Wii U has no compelling games, save for a 10 year old remake.

[replayme]

Eh, a console is only as good as its games. I have a few reservations about the 3DS XL but nothing deal-breaking, and I quite enjoy the 3D effect. Still not an abundance of titles I'm clamouring to play, but definitely enjoyed everything I've gone through so far.

If this Zelda is of the same quality of engineering as 3D Land was, then the console has done more than enough to warrant a purchase. But damn, do I have my fingers crossed over that last one. Do not want another Spirit Tracks.

Yeah, I'm scared that the new Zelda might not measure up.

I want to B-E-L-I-E-V-E.

[BryanM]

Fanboy much?
[wtf][blink]Care to explain how Nintendo have come last in the console hardware race on the last two occasions[/blink][/wtf]
Sorry man, but the Vita does have games

Good lord. What am I reading.

These are numbers. They don't care about how you or I "feel" about them. You can't reject them unless you're a crazy person.

Good luck with your Ron Paul 2016 goals.

[replayme]

Fanboy much?
[wtf][blink]Care to explain how Nintendo have come last in the console hardware race on the last two occasions[/blink][/wtf]
Sorry man, but the Vita does have games

Good lord. What am I reading.

These are numbers. They don't care about how you or I "feel" about them. You can't reject them unless you're a crazy person.

Good luck with your Ron Paul 2016 goals.

And the games industry is a business. What's your point? None, I take it.

[replayme]

People can talk about the numbers, and I'm not arguing that the 3DS isn't doing gangbusters. But that doesn't change the fact that Nintendo doesn't make shit hardware.

Can't see Nintendo go any other way apart from releasing "budget console tech" in future, unless they go third party. The Wii U has proven that Nintendo fans don't make up the mass market gaming audience, and the relative underperformance of cross platform titles (like Tomb Raider and Rayman) proves that unless Nintendo pull out a hat-trick, they'll never have sufficient units of consoles in circulation to recoup on software development costs. Unless there's a miracle through which people are convinced that the Wii U is worth owning, every AAA Nintendo title is going to be a financial failure on Wii U, and W101 was just the beginning.

At least Sony/MS get extra money from license fees, because developers want to make games for their platforms, which only aids hardware sales. Nintendo don't even have that.

I don't see Nintendo staying in the console hardware race, as the stakes are only going to get higher.

[trap15]

Because you apparently don't know numbers, here's a nice set of information:

Total Sales for Gen 7 Consoles
Wii: 52.62 million
X360: 31.5 million
PS3: 23.8 million

See? 52 million is bigger than 31 million. The Wii sold more. The Wii was more successful. Do you follow?

Total Sales for Gen 7 Handhelds
DS: 107.75 million
PSP: 53.39 million

See? 107 million is bigger than 53 million. The DS vastly sold more. The DS was more successful. Do you follow?

Total Sales for Gen 8 Handhelds
3DS: 35.16 million
PSV: 5.9 million

See? 35 million is bigger than 5 million. The 3DS is selling way more. The 3DS is more successful. It is incredibly unlikely Vita can ever catch up. Do you follow?

[replayme]

You can spew numbers all you want, but the attachment rate is garbage for all of Nintendo's consoles. And I'm not talking about their handhelds.

Also, if the attachment rate is higher, that equals more money via license fees.

Lastly, the PS360 are still going. The Wii in comparison is a relic from a bygone era.

[Skykid]

You can spew numbers all you want, but the attachment rate is garbage for all of Nintendo's consoles. And I'm not talking about their handhelds.

Also, if the attachment rate is higher, that equals more money via license fees.

Lastly, the PS360 are still going. The Wii in comparison is a relic from a bygone era.

Dude, Nintendo have more money than god. That stuff doesn't happen by accident, regardless of your preferences.

[replayme]

Companies like Blackberry and Apple had more money than God at one time... Didn't stop them from faltering.

And regardless of my preferances, the Wii U isn't even on target to sell the same amount of units as the Dreamcast.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

Nintendo started doing this thing with their style around when the wii came out. Everything is round and bloated and looks more like a plush toy than a character/enemy/object. They all make jarringly soft squeaky noises and even slightly harsher sounds are generally muted or covered up with arbitrary musical notes. The music is almost exclusively quiet orchestral stuff with no energy.

As solid and fun as they manage to make the game itself, i cringe every time i have to watch one of their cutscenes or character flourishes/poses. It's all just grossly overdone kidproofing.

That's the one big problem I have with all newer Nintendo stuff, their graphical/ sound design is often sterile and/ or obnoxious kiddi stuff.

[BryanM]

That might be a reason they've been sitting on the Fatal Frame property these days. It doesn't appeal to the white-male fox news crowd since you're just a girl taking pictures of cute ghosts, while not gelling with the lady and children demographics by virtue of being horror. I guess in theory if they made the girl a beefy space marine that shoots ghosts with a machine gun and the ghosts bleed blood it might find some (horrible) niche; but uh, that's kind of one of the problems of the Japanese game industry currently has. Trying to please others they don't understand.

Anyway.

I think any of the nostalgia-lust I had for this game has faded already. I've already played enough Zelda for a lifetime, and it isn't possible for this one to stretch the formula meaningfully in any direction. I'm sure it'll be just fine, just not anything I require to continue living.

But if it were a weird Zelda x Fatal Frame mashup... That would be a horse of a different color. The real problem is with me of course: I've sunk so much time into this hobby that my tastes have warped into something far too esoteric and niche to be served by the industy. Until they have AI that can make games just for me, this malaise will always be there for me.

[Jonathan Ingram]

That might be a reason they've been sitting on the Fatal Frame property these days.

It`s not a Nintendo property(if that`s what you`re implying), I don`t think so. I own Project Zero 2: Wii Edition and on the back of the box it very clearly states that "Project Zero is a trademark of Tecmo Koei Games".

I say move to superior Europe and your suffering will end. Embrace Project Zero, forsake Fatal Frame.

The reason there`s no Project Zero/Fatal Frame title in production right now(or maybe there is and we just don`t know yet) is because Keisuke Kikuchi has been hard at work on Kagero: Darkside Princess for Vita which you won`t get to play since you`re such a hater.

[Despatche]

Lastly, the PS360 are still going. The Wii in comparison is a relic from a bygone era.

Is this for real? They're still going because the PS4 and One aren't out yet, no more needs to be said.

And don't even get me started on "attachment rates".

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

That might be a reason they've been sitting on the Fatal Frame property these days.

It`s not a Nintendo property(if that`s what you`re implying), I don`t think so. I own Project Zero 2: Wii Edition and on the back of the box it very clearly states that "Project Zero is a trademark of Tecmo Koei Games".

I think Nintendo co-owns the franchise now.

[replayme]

Lastly, the PS360 are still going. The Wii in comparison is a relic from a bygone era.

Is this for real? They're still going because the PS4 and One aren't out yet, no more needs to be said.

And don't even get me started on "attachment rates".

Are you for real? The only reason why the Wii U was released was because the Wii was as dead as a dodo. The PS360 had killed it off. And they're slaughtering the Wii U!

People had a valid reason to "upgrade" to the PS360 (once they reached a mass-market price point). There is literally no reason whatsoever as to why people would want to "upgrade" to a Wii U. Still. Hence the reason why people get all confused about it being a controller for the Wii. And if that is the case, who in their right mind wants a "controller" that costs $300? Even the PS4 controller rips many of the "Gamepad" features of the Wii U, and that thing can be had for a fraction of the price.

When people walk into a music shop and see no CDs, they think it's a rubbish music shop. When people walk into a supermarket and all the shelves are empty, they think it's a rubbish supermarket. How is it any different therefore to think that if a console doesn't have a large/extensive library of games, that it isn't a rubbish console?

If the Wii U was £/$50 or so, Nintendo fans would have a point. For the price, and in comparison to the competition, the console does offer value. But unlike most Nintendo fans, mainstream gamers don't live in a bubble. Taken into context, and for the price, the Wii U represents awful value for money. All these Nintendo fans who go on about there being tonnes of games available to play on the Wii U miss the point, as in a lot of those games they refer to wouldn't get a second look-in if they were released by any other developer or on any other console. But I guess that's what happens when you're begging for scraps.

Anyway... Regarding Zelda being played out: yes, there is some agreement amongst Zelda fans that the franchise has been CoD-ified, and sequelised to the extent where a new Zelda game being released insn't as special an event anymore. I guess that's what happens when you realise that no-one want to release their games on your console anymore - leaving you to pick up the slack, and at least attempt to give people a "valid reason" for why your console is a great value proposition. Granted this situation only really refers to consoles and not handhelds.

I am looking forward to the new Zelda, but the new art style leaves me cold. And not because it's too "kiddified". There's something about it I don't like.

Edit: I do agree that the characters look really bloated.

[Specineff]

I remember another series getting crappy sequels and sidestories to hell and back for the past 10 years or so. What was it called? Oh, yes. Sonic The Hedgehog. (Colors and Generations do not count because they're good)

I'm getting the same vibe with Zelda as of late.

[Skykid]

Replayme, I don't think anyone is arguing that the Wii U is successful. It's clearly a major bomb.

[BryanM]

I don't think anyone is arguing that the Wii U is successful. It's clearly a major bomb.

Eh, a couple of years will pad that out or not, though their prospects are pretty dim. Even with the current upswing, almost certainly another Gamecube for them. (It's still fun to watch the Wii vs Wii U race charts. The Wii at this point was 10 million ahead, whee~) It's a blockbuster driven industry tho, so once they actually have a few who knows. (Tho the case of Monster Hunter 4 indicates they'd rather support the 3DS first and foremost. Having their killer app (Tri Ultimate) be a remastered version of a Wii game is Vita-level kind of blah.) But the best that can be said for it so far is it's outselling the XBone and PSX4 by a ratio of infinity.

Still, TV consoles are nothing but an afterthought these days.

Kagero: Darkside Princess for Vita which you won`t get to play since you`re such a hater.

You had me worried that someone out there was wasting their time making a Vita game, so I had to google this to see that it's a PSX3 game to calm myself down.

Don't scare me like that mans

The PS360 had killed it off. And they're slaughtering the Wii U!

You... really have no concept about numbers. Let's look at last week's numbers:

WiiU: 67,662
Wii: 21,072

XBox360: 76,296

Aw yeah you're totally right. 76,296 really is bigger than 88,734. Yeah. They're really kicking their asses there.

God damnit. I'm not even angry at the stupid white-male masterrace fanboy forum war you're trying to propagate. It's the assault on basic Kindergarten level math I find so offensive here.

[trap15]

Glad I'm not the only person offended when people can't do basic addition and numerical comparison.

[Ed Oscuro]

That might be a reason they've been sitting on the Fatal Frame property these days. It doesn't appeal to the white-male fox news crowd since you're just a girl taking pictures of cute ghosts,

I don't think you have to get that specific. WiiU - and I'll admit that this has mostly described me as well - just doesn't seem to appeal as much to that kind of "core gamer" we keep hearing skinned and divvied up six different ways between Sony and Microsoft for the "new console generation." But I'm not so desperate as to believe that the Wii isn't doing well. One of the apparent hidden techniques of the "core gamer" is apparently that he spends a lot more time talking about his favorite games than you'd expect from all the silent, strong heroes of his games, which fills up the media space. Developers for Wii games have been happy to remain in the background...seeing how our friends like CliffyB sometimes act, that can't be an entirely bad thing.

There's even a thread on the Retrogaming Roundtable: "Who else here is using the 3DS as their ONLY next generation console?"
Not many replies, but there's definitely that kind of gamer out there.

And as pushback against the "Nintendo is for kids" argument, consider that I've only got a PSP and an Xbox 360 because I got them cheaply (if the 360 had been any cheaper I'd be in jail, probably!) - but I got the DS for games. There hasn't really been much on the 3DS I'm interested in playing the upgrade game for, but it's not an unattractive proposition.