Do Quarter Munchers Actually Exist?

[Ruldra]

I'd like to know if the Terminator 2 lightgun game is possible to 1cc, because that's the worst kind of quarter-muncher I can think of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ0Nfan4MHk

Skip to 4:40 for the hilariously stupid boss fight. And that's the FIRST boss of the game.

[coturnixx]

To throw grenades, jump and push attack+jump middair.

Glad i checked this forum, expected something much worse and now i´m wiser for some games (i played Metamorphic Force US version merrily thinking the game was like that ) .

How about the notoriously infamous King Of Fighters series last bosses? Ultracheap attacks that destroy your life bar no matter how full it is.

[Hagane]

Flying kick is great to safely approach most enemies, nets knockdowns and is excellent for repositioning. If you see you are being swarmed or you just simply want to have all your enemies on the same side (a wise thing to do in general in the genre, do a flying kick.

Throws are great in that game. You have several kinds of them and all are extremely useful. The most basic usage is throwing one enemy at a group to knock all of them down. Prioritize lone enemies split from the pack. You can also go directly into a throw if you hold down as you end your premade chain. You also can throw enemies during a jump. This is very fast and great to deal with crowds.

Finally, you have piledrivers. There are two kinds: regular and special. The normal one does little damage (great for getting in since you have invincibility) and has short recovery, the other can be done only at the apex of the jump and does lots of damage. The latter you can use to do infinites, since you can grab enemies from the ground. So you piledrive, get close, piledrive, etc. You have lots of invincibility so you can use it against some big enemies and bosses. You can "infinite" with any throw, but no enemy can recover mid air from a piledriver.

Weapons are another very relevant part of the game. Every melee weapon can be thrown while jumping, an invaluable tool for crowd control, both for getting in safely (since you don't have to get close first or grab an enemy) or simply keeping people at bay. And then there are sections where you have infinite ammo for your handgun. Abuse it. You can kill anything quickly with it, very useful at the fifth level boss for example.

Grenades are thrown pressing A+B mid-air. I remember being able to toss a grenade on the ground too, but I don't recall how.

And yes, getting close and then just giving your back to the enemy is very bad. If you have to get away, roll or do a flying kick, but don't walk. Speaking about the roll (tap left or right twice, then hold the direction) it's useful to avoid high attacks, like projectiles. If you don't hold the direction you do a short dash, and I think infinites should be possible with them, but timing is rather strict and damage low so I don't think it's worth it.

And then well, general tips of every beat'em up: keep people in one place instead of scattered, never rush blindly from the front and attack from their sides / back unless you outrange them, once you have everyone grouped together beat all of 'em up with your basic combos, etc.

[nZero]

I'd like to know if the Terminator 2 lightgun game is possible to 1cc, because that's the worst kind of quarter-muncher I can think of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ0Nfan4MHk

Skip to 4:40 for the hilariously stupid boss fight. And that's the FIRST boss of the game.

It probably isn't considering the era and developer, but then again the guy playing in that vid is awful

Would be neat to see TASes of some of the more egregious offenders

[Zerst]

Galloping Ghost Arcade in Chicago actually has the US version of Xexex. I made it to the stage 3 boss with a full lifebar and the laser he shoots out as he appears (hadn't played it in a while, so I forgot that happened) took me 100% to game over.

[Acid King]

Isn't the final boss of one of the Magical Drop games supposed to be literally impossible on one credit? I'd say that counts.

Yes, Black Peridot is invincible unless you die on him and use a continue.

Black Peridot isn't the actual final boss though, just a hidden character you trigger if you play well. As I mentioned in the Magical Drop thread, you can avoid that fight if you play conservatively. The actual final boss is no where near as difficult as he is and definitely seems beatable. I mostly play in Survival mode but maybe I'll focus on Challenge for a bit to see if I can do it.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Gauntlet has been mastered to the point where a couple people have played it for over 24 hours, and then given up with thousands and thousands of health waiting to tick down in order to enter their initials.

One a single credit?
I always thought all the Atari games were all about making friends w/ the loser that worked at the arcade.

EDIT: Googling around, I found a thing were Atari was worried about 4-strangers playing a game together, although in theory it meant 4x the income. I read somewhere that Data East made the first simultaneous 2-player game, but I drink a lot.

That particular Data East arcade game would none other than Karate Champ back in the day as being billed as the first simultaneous 2-player "fighting" game (and sporting four joysticks for that matter, two per player). It was a regular staple at my local Tilt! arcade hangout back in the early 1980s -- an era that the ye olde arcade veterans like myself will recall with fondness. Sure, I'd play it from time to time but against the CPU opponent (as there wasn't a human opponent to play with back in those days). Most other arcade game titles had the alternating player option in effect if playing a "doubles session" back in the day.

Atari Inc's slick color vector-based Space Duel upright cab had a two-player simulatenous feature but it meant having to insert two quarters to do so back during it's initial debut back in 1982. Cranking up the bass effect in Space Duel was a cool audio experience not to be missed -- it really enhanced a serious gaming session of SD, indeed. Certainly a much better audio/visual game compared to the original Asteroids or even it's sequel of Asteroids Deluxe imo.

If you count some of those mid-1970s arcade game titles, some racing games had support for up to eight complete strangers to simultaneously "pedal to the metal" for the checkered flag from the likes of Atari Inc. It also meant making sure that there were eight willing & paying patrons per race with an game attendant present to start off the festivities (two whole dollars in quarters).

Another infamous & notorious quarter muncher would be Seibu Kaihatsu's arcade puzzler Sen-K-yu (aka Battle Balls in the U.S. courtesy of Fabtek USA arcade distributor). The loser would have to credit up to play against the winner again in a Vs. match alrighty, otherwise, the winner would go back to his or her single player vs. CPU match gaming session at hand.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Skykid]

To throw grenades, jump and push attack+jump middair.

Glad i checked this forum, expected something much worse and now i´m wiser for some games (i played Metamorphic Force US version merrily thinking the game was like that ) .

How about the notoriously infamous King Of Fighters series last bosses? Ultracheap attacks that destroy your life bar no matter how full it is.

KOF has a few cheap Rugals but nothing that can't be learned. Usually they succumb to simple meths once you work them out. Rugal 95 & 2001's absolute idiot boss trio are certainly offenders.

I'd like to know if the Terminator 2 lightgun game is possible to 1cc, because that's the worst kind of quarter-muncher I can think of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ0Nfan4MHk

Skip to 4:40 for the hilariously stupid boss fight. And that's the FIRST boss of the game.

It probably isn't considering the era and developer, but then again the guy playing in that vid is awful

I don't actually think he's that bad, it's just a terrible terrible game.

[Ed Oscuro]

That player seems a little slow (you should be zapping most of the enemies at the beginning before they can advance very far) and careless around the allies, but I just tried this out and got "TERMINATUHD" while moving away from the sandbags...it's tough. (I didn't open the one locker with the food in it though). Too easy to run out of weapon power too, and it's not clear which enemies are shooting at you. It's even better when a big cyborg parks his ass right in front of you and shields other cyborgs in the background that you can't hit. Even if you pop his head off quick, that will take some time to deal with.

[gameoverDude]

One really good thing in Quartet is that you don't die JUST BECAUSE you have zero health. Apparently someone at Sega didn't care for that feature of Gauntlet, and I agree. When your health meter is at zero, it takes another hit to lose the game. Gauntlet would've been a tad better with this feature.

Maybe off topic a bit but Sega's Mega Tech is the worst QM. This is a Megadrive answer to Play Choice 10, with 8 games max. Like PC10, there's no way around it- you have to keep pumping in quarters to buy time. You get less time per quarter (25c = 1 or 2 minutes). This was thankfully replaced by Mega Play, which gives 1 play per credit like Neo-Geo but has tweaks made to the games to make them harder and/or shorter (i.e. at least some 1ups (maybe all) removed from Streets of Rage 2, NO extra life monitors in Sonic, and levels cut from Shinobi III).

Some of Capcom's later beat-em-ups are easier than Final Fight. Alien vs Predator and The Punisher aren't quite as hard as that one. Armored Warriors sure comes close though.

[Ed Oscuro]

Progress report: Bit of a roller-coaster - went from dying at the first boss, to beating him with no life; going from no health after the first segment of the second stage (yes, there's a life refill at the stage start) to another refill, to making it to the second boss with almost no health. I think I got taken out after its first butt slam (which I believe I dodged) on trying to jump-kick it.

Nice cutscenes throughout this one. Anytime, anywhere...

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

Midway/Williams is the first thing I think of when I see the words quarter muncher. Is it even possible to "win" Sinistar? Smash TV is pretty absurd also. NARC, Total Carnage, etc.

[drauch]

Carnevil. Hell, the last boss is named "Tokentaker."

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I always wondered why the X-Men arcade game drains your health when you use mutant powers before it uses whatever 'mutant power' orbs you've got stocked (using your special when you have health drains your health, when you're at 3 or below it'll cost an orb if you have any). Being able to collect orbs that give you extra special power uses is nice, but only being able to use them unless you're nearly dead seems quite lame...

The answer of course, is that the Japanese versions don't do this bullshit. You use any mutant power orbs you have before draining your health. So they no longer need to be saved as a desperation attack. But I can't figure out how you earn any more - bosses don't seem to give them out, and you don't earn them every 100 points or anything. Weird.

[Domino]

I had this logic years ago regarding Western Arcade games and Japanese Arcade games:

Western Arcade games on huge earnings at the beginning of a new game in a location and usually overtime it will be unprofitable.

Most of the Japanese Arcade games focus more on the long term of the game. While it will make major money at the start, as time goes on it will still be making steady income. I think with people who keep playing the game that doesn't take your money it will result of longer enjoyment from the player. I think with that it will make more players invest in a game as years goes by.

Or maybe that part I said above doesn't make sense.


Now let me link to this controversial article:

http://insomnia.ac/commentary/arcade_culture/

Yes, it's icycalm's article. Let's not start talking about the person but lets talk a little about this article. There's a part where it stated "Why are arcade games so good?"

Arcade games are good because they just have to be. Floor space is always limited in an arcade, regardless of how big it may be, and a game that's not making much money is simply taking up space from another one that does. The fact that all these games are sitting right there, right next to each other, and that a few coins is all it takes to try them all out, means that the players can easily compare them and judge for themselves their quality, directing their attention to those they deem the best.

I agree with this part a lot. I do this often with MAME and when I play at random arcades years back. If the game is shit at the arcades then I don't invest any money in it after one or two credits. With MAME if the game is crap I just move on to the next one. I really like this concept of the arcade game, where only you control the investment and time you play an arcade game. Nobody is forcing you to play a shitty arcade game, only yourself is doing it.

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, the flip side of that is you can construct a little bubble around yourself, and over time that bubble hardens into a shell that's difficult to escape - so you get like me with atrophied fightin' game instincts (or rather, since 1993 when I played a little of the Mortal Kombat release with Sekktor on SNES and just spammed his rocket repeatedly, I haven't developed any skills to speak of). To be quite honest, my enthusiasm level for The Punisher isn't quite as high as it is for shmups and lightgun games (for example) but I can see myself having more fun with it and shaking off that sense of frustration or whatever it is holding you back.

Carnevil. Hell, the last boss is named "Tokentaker."

I quarter-fed this one a couple years ago and it didn't seem that bad, honest. Maybe I'll have another look at it. I think that playing with the mouse is a bit slower than having a real lightgun.

The difficulty level is quite high for sure, but I didn't see anything that faster reflexes wouldn't fix

Midway/Williams is the first thing I think of when I see the words quarter muncher. Is it even possible to "win" Sinistar? Smash TV is pretty absurd also. NARC, Total Carnage, etc.

Yeah, I think there's a pattern there. Interesting games but they aren't subtle at all about having a big "THIS MANY POINTS TILL YOU'RE FUCKED" counter racing down double-digits every second in the middle of the screen. It makes you wonder whether games like this really were tested for the 1CC or just for survival over more than the planned number of seconds.

[Zerst]

Midway/Williams is the first thing I think of when I see the words quarter muncher. Is it even possible to "win" Sinistar? Smash TV is pretty absurd also. NARC, Total Carnage, etc.

I've cleared Total Carnage. It's a bit RNG based with the items, but it's way easier than smash T.V. where you're almost completely at the mercy of random item spawn locations to beat the later stages. (I made it to the screen after the snake bosses in smashTV and got hosed)

http://replay.marpirc.net/r/totcarn
http://replay.marpirc.net/r/smashtv

I quarter-fed this one a couple years ago and it didn't seem that bad, honest. Maybe I'll have another look at it. I think that playing with the mouse is a bit slower than having a real lightgun.

The difficulty level is quite high for sure, but I didn't see anything that faster reflexes wouldn't fix

A number of years ago on MARP, somebody put up a cash bounty for a 1cc of CarnEvil. It was alongside a bounty for 2-ALLing the HK version of Donpachi. Nobody could finish either.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

A number of years ago on MARP, somebody put up a cash bounty for a 1cc of CarnEvil. It was alongside a bounty for 2-ALLing the HK version of Donpachi. Nobody could finish either.

LOL, if it's MARP they'd probably disqualify a 2-ALL of Donpachi if the person turned on the C button. Their best scoring run of Progear was disqualified because C button autofire was enabled (?!).

[Mortificator]

The answer of course, is that the Japanese versions don't do this bullshit. You use any mutant power orbs you have before draining your health. So they no longer need to be saved as a desperation attack. But I can't figure out how you earn any more - bosses don't seem to give them out, and you don't earn them every 100 points or anything.

There's a type of sentinel that drops mutant power and full health pick-ups. One of them's in the first stage, but he drops health and you're not likely to need any at that point. I think the first with a mutant power orb's in the second stage.

The game would probably be better balanced if it had both the pick-ups and the gratis end-of-stage mutant power.

"Why are arcade games so good?"

Are they, usually? MAME lists close to 9,000 arcade games, not including clones. How many are really good? A few hundred, at best.

There are more great arcade games than there are for any one console, but there are more arcade games total than there are for any one console. I don't know that there's a basis to say arcade games tend to be better.

[Skykid]

I wish people would stop referencing icycalm's article. It's got nothing to do with the individual, it's just so bad by its own merit, or lack thereof, it doesn't deserve any attention whatsoever. I'm looking at you Dom!

[Hagane]

I think he's an idiot as much as you do, but that article has a lot of good points, buried under the crappy writing.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I think he's an idiot as much as you do, but that article has a lot of good points, buried under the crappy writing.

This is more a case of icy being a 'stopped clock'. It's got plenty of bad points but it's such a sheer wall of text that it's no surprise that he manages to say something sane now and then.

"Why are arcade games so good?"

Are they, usually? MAME lists close to 9,000 arcade games, not including clones. How many are really good? A few hundred, at best.

There are more great arcade games than there are for any one console, but there are more arcade games total than there are for any one console. I don't know that there's a basis to say arcade games tend to be better.

Yeah, this. There are a number of well known arcade games that really aren't that good (Simpsons, X-Men), but you wouldn't know how bad they are until you seriously play them and see how sloppy the game mechanics are. But they looked flashy enough to become popular all the same. Then again, a LOT of the games in MAME's listing are slot machines... which nobody gives a shit about.

[gameoverDude]

Midway/Williams is the first thing I think of when I see the words quarter muncher. Is it even possible to "win" Sinistar? Smash TV is pretty absurd also. NARC, Total Carnage, etc.

Smash TV's rank is based on the daily high score list. If there's a 10,000,000 or so in 1st, then watch out.

[Skykid]

I think he's an idiot as much as you do, but that article has a lot of good points, buried under the crappy writing.

Might be able to find a couple with a shovel and a pickaxe, but it's like seventy paragraphs of filler with the only solid points being no-brainers that anyone with an inkling about arcade gaming already knows. Domino's excerpt case in-point.

[Hagane]

I won't spend much energy defending that douche, but your assumption that what's written there is common knowledge is sadly too optimistic. I'll be the first to admit that it opened my eyes in many aspects, as I've always been a creditfeeding arcade casual till that point. I'll give credit where it's due.

[Domino]

I wish people would stop referencing icycalm's article. It's got nothing to do with the individual, it's just so bad by its own merit, or lack thereof, it doesn't deserve any attention whatsoever. I'm looking at you Dom!

The problem is that I don't believe the article is bad at all. There's a lot of points in the article that honestly I agree with icy. This is the article that I show to my friends if they want to attempt to understand my gaming logic. Now personally I don't hate console gaming or games that were made for the home market, it is just those games aren't my preference.

Now it is funny someone brought up Simpsons, X-Men, the two Konami games. Lets add also the two TMNT games. I understand why the TMNT games were popular, but man when I played both games I found the gameplay to be sloppy. I always thought JP Metamorphic Force and Violent Storm were Konami's best beat 'em ups.

[Ed Oscuro]

Now it is funny someone brought up Simpsons, X-Men, the two Konami games. Lets add also the two TMNT games. I understand why the TMNT games were popular, but man when I played both games I found the gameplay to be sloppy. I always thought JP Metamorphic Force and Violent Storm were Konami's best beat 'em ups.

I'm in no place to really judge a game but yeah, I tried out one of the TMNT games in MAME recently and found it underwhelming overall, including the gameplay which felt notably sloppy as you say.

[Zerst]

I always thought JP Metamorphic Force and Violent Storm were Konami's best beat 'em ups.

Agreed 200%. The licensed ones are just 20 minutes of hit & run on the same three enemy types all game and bullshit bosses with RNG hitstun. MMF is infinitely better; it's a shame it's one of those "you've probably never heard of it *sneer*" situations.

[Ed Oscuro]

Oh, speaking of Konami, didn't everybody forget to mention Gaiapolis?

The Lethal Enforcers games seem to be most emphatically not quarter munchers, but I do have difficulty surviving far into the difficulty spikes on those games.

Crypt Killer / Henry Explorers (ADJECTIVE NOUN or is that ADJECTIVE VERB?) seems easier than those, too. Good fun but quirky (mostly in ways I like); admittedly not their finest effort combining 2D and 3D (even though, again, I love this aspect; it's just a shame that blocky 3D stuff is used for most of the dynamic elements).

[cools]

I think he's an idiot as much as you do, but that article has a lot of good points, buried under the crappy writing.

Might be able to find a couple with a shovel and a pickaxe, but it's like seventy paragraphs of filler with the only solid points being no-brainers that anyone with an inkling about arcade gaming already knows. Domino's excerpt case in-point.

I quite like all the waffle, it's how my brain works.

Would like to see your take on a piece with the same title as well.