I almost got attacked last night...

Neo Rasa · Post by **Neo Rasa** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 1:08 am

landshark wrote: Lets see... religious rule was MUCH more prevalent back then (hard to imagine really). Science? The mere word would get you killed.

This I would have to disagree with if you're only going back 250 years. The schism between science/religion I would argue is much more recent than many people think (I'd even argue it being almost as recent as the end of the second World War in terms of it being a mainstream notion that science and one's faith can never be reconciled).

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 4:31 am

Neo Rasa wrote:
landshark wrote: Lets see... religious rule was MUCH more prevalent back then (hard to imagine really). Science? The mere word would get you killed.
This I would have to disagree with if you're only going back 250 years. The schism between science/religion I would argue is much more recent than many people think (I'd even argue it being almost as recent as the end of the second World War in terms of it being a mainstream notion that science and one's faith can never be reconciled).

This can probably be argued as some parts of the world have travelled forward a bit more than others in this area.

If you take europe/north america, then they have come a long way. (My dates are probably off, I haven't studied this since 1997 or so) I wanna say around the 16th century (I think that was Galileo's time) would have been a very bad time for scientists.

Man was supposed to be the center of the universe (according to catholcism), and here comes someone saying we are not, and neither is the earth. You'd be cast out. However, the number of people that understood science back then was miniscule compared with today.

I agree that current times are not perfect, but we are still past many humps. However, I can't believe that we are having this problem currently with teaching creationism in biology classes. This would be something I would have expected in the 16th century. Not today.

sethsez wrote:Yes, but you see, we weren't around back then to expereience it so it's just statistics and stuff in museums. But our problems today are real!!!

PaCrappa · Post by **PaCrappa** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 5:50 pm

Dave_K. wrote:Excellent response Pa. My post was more curious than accusing. Just wondering how good you have to be trained before even thinking of doing a sleeper hold in a real fight (for fear of really choking someone to death).

Anyway, my office mate at work is also into BJJ suprisingly enough, and speaks the same praises as you. He's the nicest guy you'd ever meet, although I wouldn't want to run up against him either in a real fight.

Cool. I worry when I start talking about the jiu jitsu being so awesome that people will think I posture myself as a tough guy when really, I'm super mellow.

What you said about your coworker is exactly how I feel about alot of my BJJ friends

Pa

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:29 pm

This thread should die now... the mood has changed and the idea is old. Though i could just not post and let it continue to work it's way down the thread list i would rather let it go out on a good note...

"We can dance if we wantoo! We can leave your friends behind -
'cause your friends don't dance and if they don't dance well then their no friends of mine!"

C'mon! Let's SAFETY DANCE for pea shooters and karate chops!!!

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Sun Nov 13, 2005 11:37 pm

There is no better note to end something on that Safety Dance.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 12:43 am

There has been high points in the human history. Many times it ended with some kind of slaughter.

ually, I agree we have cure for many diseases, and we also have a lot more freedom of speech than before. My "The last 250 years were downhill" comment wasn't to be taken too much seriously

. But we do have some problems that never existed before, and I really cant say they are better or worse than the problems people had, like, 250 years ago. But I feel the last few years things do have been going downhill, and this was expected. I believe in many years in the future, this age will be considered a "transiction" age. Capitalism is at its highest peak now, and from the highest peak, we can only go down.

Though I agree this thread is not about that. I would take this discussion to PM if anyone wants to go deeper on that

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:19 am

At least the black plague and leprosy aren't claiming lives left and right nowadays.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:36 am

jordy wrote:
You assume to much my friend.

a) I was not referring to Australia.
b) I was not commenting on crime rate being porportional to handgun ownership.

Yes agreed, a black market situation can and will occur if something is outlawed. It would however limit the amount of accidential (and non-accidential) and uneccessary deaths caused as a result of guns.

No comment on victims of schoolyard killings??

And I dont believe Hilter's atrocious treatment of Jews would have been avoided if guns had not been outlawed.

Again...Peace.

J.

I mention Australia, the crime rate and the Jews in Germany because of your suggestion that America's notion of self defense should have caused it to "swallow itself up". Would you rather none of those people in NOLA had no weapons and been at the mercy of gangs of thugs? Like I said, there are many, many real situations where guns are a deterrent to crime and I don't think it's too debateable to say that if all the jews in germany owned guns (like for example how they are distributed in Switzerland) HItler would have had a much tougher time implementing the final solution Focusing on rareities such as in school shootings and the proportionallly miniscule number of accidental shootings in a society and saying those are reason enough to take guns away from responsible adults is just silly.

I didn't comment on the schoolyard killings because there's no real reason to. They aren't caused by guns. They're caused by shitty parenting and poor school systems. Are you telling me that there are no incidents of children killing children (guns or no guns) or in school violence in europe? Not to mention that schoolyard shootings are a rare occurrence. They're tragedies when they happen, yes, but they are not caused by legal private gun ownership.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:12 am

This thread should be started in a new thread titled properly.

So in the mean time, I'll just join in on the safety dance.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:47 pm

"You can act real rude and totally removed and i can act like an imbecile!!!"

Salem Witch Trials! · Post by **Salem Witch Trials!** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:57 pm

Yeah...get the gun. From hearing how friendly you were when he freaked out on you, I doubt you're the kind of person who's gonna "off someone for getting cussed at". You're not getting the gun for aggressive pissed-off red-faced pop a vein in anger reasons. Especially if similar stuff has happened before, don't hesitate to get the gun. I'm not a big fan of violence of any kind, but you may regret it if you end up getting jumped, or in some other shitty situation, and have no way to defend yourself.

EDIT:

circuitface wrote:Anyway let's try not to turn this into a gun-control flame war thread, ok?

Hehehehehehe. Know how ya feel. Its not too hard to tell what kind of discussion people on a message board will turn something into.

PaCrappa · Post by **PaCrappa** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:15 pm

People, when jumping others, do not wave a large flag that says "HAY!! I'M ABOUT TO JUMP YOU!!" If you're being jumped, you usually have no prior notice. Which means that a gun isn't like some catchall that will just defuse that situation. If I'm carrying a gun and three guys are ON me before I even see them (let alone have a chance to brandish my mighty weapon), what good does it do? It's just as likely that one of those guys will grab the gun in the confusion and blast me with it as me blasting one or all of them. Or even simply keeping them at bay. Just having a gun doesn't put you automatically above the dangers that may be present out there in the world.

And again. You pull the gun out... Then what? Not that many people can really sack up enough to shoot a person so why bother? And if you do shoot a guy, even if you're within the letter of the law, are you prepared with the time and finances it may require for a legal battle that could last years?

This ain't "Raw Deal" starring Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Pa

JEZ · Post by **JEZ** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:48 pm

Interesting topic for a Shoot'em up forum......

Anyhow, did I miss why pepper/tears-spray were rejected? If you're in a city where you don't feel safe this sounds like the optimal choice. You have a fair chance of escaping a dangerous situation, without killing anyone, and you don't add another gun to the world.

Post by **Ghegs** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:59 pm

JEZ wrote:Interesting topic for a Shoot'em up forum......

You should see the one about metrosexuality we had a few weeks back.

TWITCHDOCTOR · Post by **TWITCHDOCTOR** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:33 pm

CircuitFace...
Seriously, forget about the whole "gun" thing. Get a grenade instead!
Whenever you feel threatened, simply pull it out...wave it around...pull pin and run!
It works wonders ever time, plus, it makes a really cool sound after a few seconds. More than enough to attract attention. Something that muggers and drunk assholes really dislike, and will avoid at all costs.
Think about it!!!
A grenade necklace. Just pull it from your chest when/if needed.
Hell, it will even help you in that goth look you got going on!

Or, you could just tell your would be assaualt-ist that you're related to Chuck Norris.

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:46 pm

or a mercury tilt switch bomb, you could wear it at all times down the town and whenever someone knocks you over it goes off and they won't be bothering you again

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:12 pm

PaCrappa wrote:People, when jumping others, do not wave a large flag that says "HAY!! I'M ABOUT TO JUMP YOU!!" If you're being jumped, you usually have no prior notice. Which means that a gun isn't like some catchall that will just defuse that situation. If I'm carrying a gun and three guys are ON me before I even see them (let alone have a chance to brandish my mighty weapon), what good does it do? It's just as likely that one of those guys will grab the gun in the confusion and blast me with it as me blasting one or all of them. Or even simply keeping them at bay. Just having a gun doesn't put you automatically above the dangers that may be present out there in the world.

And again. You pull the gun out... Then what? Not that many people can really sack up enough to shoot a person so why bother? And if you do shoot a guy, even if you're within the letter of the law, are you prepared with the time and finances it may require for a legal battle that could last years?

This ain't "Raw Deal" starring Arnold Schwarzenegger.

Pa

This is so much true. Having a gun is actually more dangerous to not have it. If someone is pointing a gun at you, and he notices you have a gun, chances are that he will shoot you.

FBI statistics says that for each case where someone carrying a gun sucessufuly defends himself against such an attack, 185 are either wounded or killed.

Edit - about Australia... I've read that crime actually went DOWN after they outlawed guns... here is the first time I hear it went UP. Anyone has any oficial sources or something?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 10:39 pm

circuitface wrote:Some drunk guy comes around the corner and i say 'What's up, guy?' as friendly as normal.

Moral of the story? When in such a setting, it's usually best not to say anything, heh heh.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 11:16 pm

Shatterhand wrote: FBI statistics says that for each case where someone carrying a gun sucessufuly defends himself against such an attack, 185 are either wounded or killed.

Can you provide a link to that statistic?

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:41 am

No, but recently we had an election here in Brazil where people would vote if the selling of guns and ammo should be outlawed, and this fact was presented all the time on media.

That's how I heard about the Australia thing too.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:36 am

Shatterhand wrote:No, but recently we had an election here in Brazil where people would vote if the selling of guns and ammo should be outlawed, and this fact was presented all the time on media.

That's how I heard about the Australia thing too.

I wouldn't call that a fact then. It's hearsay. You and I both know how well the press represents facts when it wants to get it's way.

umi · Post by **umi** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 5:56 am

landshark wrote:
Shatterhand wrote:No, but recently we had an election here in Brazil where people would vote if the selling of guns and ammo should be outlawed, and this fact was presented all the time on media.

That's how I heard about the Australia thing too.
I wouldn't call that a fact then. It's hearsay. You and I both know how well the press represents facts when it wants to get it's way.

Most "statistics" have a definite tilt to them... in short, they're almost always misleading. They're mostly useful for flaunting opinions, or all-purpose kindling for conversation and political agendas. Sometimes you just need to think rationally and plan ahead. In the case of politicians, think to themselves, "Do I want my citizens running around with guns?". Hrm... tough one.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:44 am

Yeah, I agree with that. When I wrote the above post, I thought about put the word fact between quotes.

It's the same thing with the crime rate in Australia. I bet people can manipulate it to make it look like it went up or make it look it went down, depending upon what`s more interesting.

Just if you guys are interested in knowing, this election happened last month here in Brazil, and there were politicians defending both sides, but the discussion in the media was so stupid, no one came with decent arguments.

In the beggining of the campaign, everyone believed that outlawing the guns would win, as polls said more than 80% of people would vote for that.

But then both campaigns went ridiculous wrong. The guys defending the outlawing begun bringing famous artists and statistics to prove their point, while the politicians against the outlawing used a "fear campaign"... they made it look like if guns were outlawed, we would live in something like a city out of a Sergio Leoni western, except only the badguys would have guns, and the "good citiziens" not.
Then they begun to use the crisis in the brazilian governement, and people begun voting agasting the outlawing just to show how pissed off they were with the govern... and then the politicians defending the outlawing begun using a fear campaign too, but then it was too late.

The truth is that most reasonable people agreed all this was really fucked up.

D · Post by D » Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:58 am

JUDO-KICK (Austin)

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:53 pm

Well OK. You people aren't dancing.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:39 pm

circuitface wrote:Well OK. You people aren't dancing.

I am. But I don't have a webcam.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:50 pm

Well, we can dance if we want too, landshark.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:25 pm

circuitface wrote:Well, we can dance if we want too, landshark.

ok, I left my friends behind.

PaCrappa · Post by **PaCrappa** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:04 pm

Diabollokus wrote:lol funny a thread with ju-jitsu practioners I thought me and PA were the only ones Didn't know about ramus. I'm a Kaizen practioner myself, basically brazilian with traditional dentokan, and live stand up. works pretty well comfortable on ground, close range and long range. I need to learn thai just to get knees and elbows, Have a mma tourney in 5 weeks if anyone cares.

If someone has a weapon it just not worth getting killed over a few quid, run like fuk. 1 on 1 and no cameras/witnesses, go for it Belfast at night is eventful.

Whoah! I can't believe I missed this post. I care a whole lot about any MMA tourney you're in. Please start a thread and keep us posted man.

Pa

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:10 pm

Thanks PA

Well got general training as usual these days, have a seminar in 2 weeks with guy called bob breen not sure if you know him, but hes considered to be one hell of a pad man/ knife specialist, big man in the UK, trained by dan inosanto. He comes over to our club about once a year to hurt us. Be about 70-80 people training with him over 2 days so looking forward to meeting some new people. + seeing instructors getting taken back to school.

Then the Next week a guy you do know! Roger gracie is coming to the only gracie bara club in the country, I haven't decided if I'll go yet, I'm not exactly a high black belt, yeah I've rolled abit, but very new to the ju-jitsu style, so I'm a bit apprehensive about jumping in at the deep end with that level of specific brazillain. Just feels weird when your a green belt and everyone else is a much higher grade.... + its really out of the way to get to the event, Its 2nd of december-4th so a bit of time but places are limited and will run out fast. You think I should go?

The MMA tourney is actually organised by a bjj blue belt who teaches at my club every now and then, I'm entering as an amature but weight catergory is a real killer I'm Dead on 93kgs theres a 82-89 kg cat and a 90-100 cat, I do not want to be going in against guys that weight on my first time, I'm trying to get down to the lower cat, may have to do a lot of cardio to sort it out before christmas time.....Bit scared about it, particularly kickboxers.

I'll let you know how I get on, main goal is to beat at least some guys and survive, looking forward to using chokes from guard.

shmups.system11.org

I almost got attacked last night...

Re: I almost got attacked last night...