OLED Displays

[Lord of Pirates]

What's with all the hoopla about the technology? I've read and heard about it but I figure you guys can give me better insight than my searching.

[Fudoh]

best there is. Better motion handling than CRTs, minus all the problems. Best blacks without expensive trickery like local dimming.

Current problems: price, burn-in, extreme aging.

[gray117]

Basically brighter, lighter and they do not require backlighting - allows for a more even, dense, thin, screen. ... Makes it particularly great for up close displays and of course 4k plus concepts.

For your regular tv sizes though I think there's a fair price hike...

Plus durability/long term performance is a bit unproven - there's lots of reports of vita screens degrading and/or getting blotchy for example.

[Lord of Pirates]

How's color accuracy and depth on them?

Thanks for the quick replies.

[gray117]

In theory, the best, in general perception of 'depth' I think OLED will generally be better than LCD under all light conditions. But all the best color monitors are still IPS for accuracy... at least for now.

Personally, I remain a little cautious of decent longevity from an OLED... it's quite frustrating :/

Personal recommendation:
If you're going to be working, or up close, I'd probably still pump for an LCD screen. If you're a few feet away, and are more interested in size and depth, in a room that's not flooded with light, perhaps explore a plasma alternative, especially for movies.

Oh, just in case - OLED screens not to be confused with, regular LED screens, and in turn not to be confused with LED backlighting of an LCD [gives the LCD a more even backlighting].

[Lord of Pirates]

In theory, the best, in general perception of 'depth' I think OLED will generally be better than LCD under all light conditions. But all the best color monitors are still IPS for accuracy... at least for now.

Personally, I remain a little cautious of decent longevity from an OLED... it's quite frustrating :/

Personal recommendation:
If you're going to be working, or up close, I'd probably still pump for an LCD screen. If you're a few feet away, and are more interested in size and depth, in a room that's not flooded with light, perhaps explore a plasma alternative, especially for movies.

Oh, just in case - OLED screens not to be confused with LED backlighting of an LCD [gives the LCD a more even backlighting].

I'm generally 3 - 5' away from my displays; I'm not looking to buy a new display though, just curious about the technology :p.

[gray117]

This honestly isn't a sarcastic reply:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/oled1.htm

... on the consumer product end I think we're still trying to work out if this is a slightly flawed tech, best limited to small mobile screens, or one still maturing.

[Lord of Pirates]

This honestly isn't a sarcastic reply:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/oled1.htm

... on the consumer product end I think we're still trying to work out if this is a slightly flawed tech, best limited to small mobile screens, or one still maturing.

Screen degradation definitely fits with the mobile market's constant push of new models. Only time will tell, I suppose.

[22point8]

Some interesting reading

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-co ... er_display
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field_emission_display

[Fudoh]

I don't think any other technology approaches stand a chance against OLED. I've seen the large ones live now and it's mind blowingly amazing. Prices will be down to high-end LCD prices in about 2-3 years and if they can get a grip on the aging problems, it's the future.

[DrMattBuckets]

Fudoh, by ageing do you mean that the screens don't last very long? If so why is that?

[Fudoh]

the different colors show different aging. The 8000k 55" OLED displays now sold might show heavy color drifts in two years from now. Nobody knows yet. If I were to purchase one tonight, I'd make sure to have at least a 5-year warranty.

[RGB32E]

I've viewed the LG 55EA9800 and Samsung KN55S9C in person recently. Both are amazing displays, but I think the Samsung panel provides better picture quality than the LG. The Samsung is RGB OLED whereas the LG is RGB stack lit through RGBW color filters. Too bad the Samsung has been input lag benched and has about 50ms of input lag in game mode! I was tempted to bring along my SNES and XRGB-Mini!

The clear stand on the LG is FUGLY! The stand on the Samsung tilts the panel way too back! I will likely buy a flat panel OLED about 12 months from now.

http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs/KN55S9CAFXZA
http://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-55EA9800-oled-tv

[evil_ash_xero]

Anyone know what kind of input delay these things have?

[RGB32E]

Anyone know what kind of input delay these things have?

I'd imagine things will improve, but the current Samsung model has 60 ms of input lag in game mode!

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/ ... 23374.html

Input lag in Game mode was 60.3ms, toward the high (worse) end of an Average rating from us. Using the "PC input trick" didn't improve that number, which also worsened significantly to 151ms in Movie mode.

[panzeroceania]

best there is. Better motion handling than CRTs, minus all the problems. Best blacks without expensive trickery like local dimming.

Current problems: price, burn-in, extreme aging.

Doesn't oled suffer some of the same issues that lcd does?

Such as a fixed native physical pixels, input lag, etc.

Wouldn't an SED or FED be the ideal display. From what I've read I consider SED/FED the gold standard.

The real Achilles heel of all these displays though is hdmi

We need a mass adoption of displayport / thunderbolt in the near future.

[Ed Oscuro]

SED and FED also are used in fixed-pixel displays. The emitters are located right at the point where the light is generated; there's no scanning back and forth of the beam.

The best one could hope for would be really dense arrays of emitters for high-resolution output, but that would still require upscaling a low-resolution signal.

[panzeroceania]

IIRC, displayport can render entire frames at a time versus a line at a time, which is where you get screen tearing.

The problem is getting companies to write OS display managers (Wayland) video APIs (opengl) and games that take advantage of features like that.

I'd be perfectly happy to stay with CRT if people were still actively developing the technology so we could have higher resolutions (4k) and faster refresh rates (480hz)

I'm still waiting for 10 bit color to go mainstream on LCD and OLED

[Ed Oscuro]

IIRC, displayport can render entire frames at a time versus a line at a time, which is where you get screen tearing.

But not where you get lag. I'll admit I don't understand well how much of a "entire frame" has to pass through the cable before the screen can start updating with that data. There's no reason to believe it's actually instant, but in any case there should be a period where you are waiting for an up-to-date signal. Of course, it's not as if analog signals represent incremental lag-busting pixel updates - that would result in tearing too (the idea of mid-scanline refreshes is just used for special effects in some games).

[blizzz]

I'm still waiting for 10 bit color to go mainstream on LCD and OLED

There's very little advantage in 10bit color. Even the higher end monitors like the Dell U2711 or Eizo SX2762W don't fully support 10bit and normal graphics cards can't output 10bit (only NVIDIA Quadro / AMD FirePro do).

[gray117]

OLEDs are even quicker to respond than your typical lcd panels - all other things being equal. Broadly this is in part why their handling of fast moving images is great.

OLED is a panel/pixel dispay technology - it basically only contributes to the 'response time', you'll still have all the same general issues relating to image processing that can contribute to 'input lag'.

There are advantages to the display port and the new related display controllers that could be used to reduce v sync/tearing issues, but it's still going to largely rely on a good renderer/interpolation supplying a clean frame...

[stockspyder]

I have an oled that I haven't found a good place to set up yet. It's a Sony xel-1. Plan on using it with the framemeister. How would I check input lag? The reason it isn't set up yet is because there are no wall mounts built into it

[Fudoh]

Is the XEL-1 even detachable from it's stand where the electronic sits ?

Let us know how it turns out. The display has to downscale the 720p from the Mini to the display's native 540p - this could potentically make scanlines appear mushy.

To determine input lag you need a CRT next to the display, Leo's testing device or a hi-speed camera (button-method).

[brentsg]

I wish I had been paying attention when Sony was blowing those out at the end. I've got a perfect spot on my desk for one.

[stockspyder]

For sure it is not detachable from its stand. I have seen a page where someone disassembles one and because the screen including casing is only 3 millimeters thick at its thickest point the only place to have secure inputs is on the base that the tv is permanently attached to. I wish it were more house friendly, or everyday useable.

Maybe on Sunday I can fire it up really quickly to see how it looks with scanlines. I've only used it once when I got it and it was to make sure it worked. I turned it on to Netflix with 1080p ocean scapes running. I'm thinking with the downscaling working perfectly fine it wouldn't be a problem. I'll try to post Sunday 9/22/13 by 10 pacific standard time. I own a top kdl Bravia from this year and it still is amazing in comparison, all 11 inch screen of it.

Is the XEL-1 even detachable from it's stand where the electronic sits ?

Let us know how it turns out. The display has to downscale the 720p from the Mini to the display's native 540p - this could potentically make scanlines appear mushy.

To determine input lag you need a CRT next to the display, Leo's testing device or a hi-speed camera (button-method).

[Smashbro29]

I just imagine a TV sized Vita. I need one. Does OLED also have that input lag issue from LCD?

[Fudoh]

The eletronic used for signal processing can exhibit just the same lag as with any other digital monitor. The panel's response time is down to basically zero with OLED. In other words: it's completely up to the manufacturers. They *could* make monitors as fast as analogue CRTs or they could make displays as slow as your average LCD TV.

[stockspyder]

I'm pretty sure that oleds run 240hz, as my newer tv does as well and my sony xbr960 did before I got rid of it (or which ever xbr tube was the best, I owned till I wanted a turtle and ran out of room.) I'll try to figure out lag eventually and get back to you guys. For now all I can do is image comparison, which isn't going to too far off as my other tv is brand new

[stockspyder]

oled

led 60 inch kDL Bravia

oled

kdl

oled

kdl

Sorry about the glare I tried to minimize it

[evil_ash_xero]

Anyone know what kind of input delay these things have?

I'd imagine things will improve, but the current Samsung model has 60 ms of input lag in game mode!

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/ ... 23374.html

Input lag in Game mode was 60.3ms, toward the high (worse) end of an Average rating from us. Using the "PC input trick" didn't improve that number, which also worsened significantly to 151ms in Movie mode.

Dear God!