ESPgaluda PGM cart conversion

[jepjepjep]

While it's an illogical position, I can still understand the emotional appeal to certain people of a mythical "pure" version of CPS2 B boards (that only exists in their minds unfortunately as once you swap out the battery it's no longer original, but I digress); but what I'm confused about is where along the road that got perverted into the nonsense we witnessed above where desuiciding=bootlegging. Based on what I've seen, the group of people that eschew that fallacy is a very small minority subset of the minority that is against desuiciding, thankfully.

There's nothing mythical or emotional about having a board that runs original Capcom program code. There's also a big difference between switching out a new battery on an otherwise factory board and heavily modified program roms/additional splashscreens/jukeboxes. Some people prefer the convenience and piece of mind of the phoenix boards. Others prefer the originality of the battery boards. It's just a personal preference, there's nothing illogical about it.

Thankfully the clean decrypted roms have been released freely! The nice thing about Raz's phoenix work is that it has stood the test of time. I haven't heard of a single reproducable bug on any of his phoenix romsets. That's great!

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Nobody is ever going to work out how to load the keys back onto games (I don't even know how you ever could on System 16 for example) - a suicide enabled board is simply a liability at worst, or an upcoming expense at best. From the preservationist point of view, clinging to suicide because that's how it came from the factory is completely illogical.

Especially considering the board will, given time, become unusable as a result of replacing the batteries constantly, or simply an unexpected battery leak, etc. That's not to say that desuicided boards will last an infinite amount of time, but soldering new batteries every so often will eventually cause some wear on the connections, won't it? Certainly more of a liability than a board that's simply had the suicide part removed, preferably without a heavily modified splash screen and whatnot. Obviously it's not that simple, not all games do their suiciding the same way, but this is just talking in an ideal situation.

Don't phoenixed versions of the games play pretty much the same as the original roms? Or have they been shown to play significantly differently? I've only ever played on a 'nixed Progear board.

[Bar81]

While it's an illogical position, I can still understand the emotional appeal to certain people of a mythical "pure" version of CPS2 B boards (that only exists in their minds unfortunately as once you swap out the battery it's no longer original, but I digress); but what I'm confused about is where along the road that got perverted into the nonsense we witnessed above where desuiciding=bootlegging. Based on what I've seen, the group of people that eschew that fallacy is a very small minority subset of the minority that is against desuiciding, thankfully.

There's nothing mythical or emotional about having a board that runs original Capcom program code. There's also a big difference between switching out a new battery on an otherwise factory board and heavily modified program roms/additional splashscreens/jukeboxes. Some people prefer the convenience and piece of mind of the phoenix boards. Others prefer the originality of the battery boards. It's just a personal preference, there's nothing illogical about it.

Thankfully the clean decrypted roms have been released freely! The nice thing about Raz's phoenix work is that it has stood the test of time. I haven't heard of a single reproducable bug on any of his phoenix romsets. That's great!

Unfortunately, you can't pick and choose what constitutes an original board by saying that suddenly the hardware isn't relevant as long as it's playing the original roms. Under the narrow minded extremist viewpoint espoused above by several posters any alteration=bootlegging. You can't have it both ways.

[trap15]

Except a different battery isn't going to possibly cause a crash randomly or have some data decrypted where it shouldn't be

[Bar81]

Except a different battery isn't going to possibly cause a crash randomly or have some data decrypted where it shouldn't be

Keep on spinning. Let me know when the goalposts stop moving.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I think if someone has bought "original" Phoenixed boards considering in their mind it's "all original" or had their original Phoenixed before really thinking it through then nobody's opinion on the web is going to sway them into thinking they overspent their money. I personally don't care what people do or value but Phoenixed boards are worth nothing in the entire country of Japan and you can't just throw that out. Or maybe you can. Again I don't really care.

[Bar81]

I think if someone has bought "original" Phoenixed boards considering in their mind it's "all original" or had their original Phoenixed before really thinking it through then nobody's opinion on the web is going to sway them into thinking they overspent their money. I personally don't care what people do or value but Phoenixed boards are worth nothing in the entire country of Japan and you can't just throw that out. Or maybe you can. Again I don't really care.

You guys are all coming out of the woodwork; "the entire" country of Japan (hyperbole much?) . Keep on trying to justify an illogical stance by throwing anything you can against the wall and hoping something, anything sticks.

[trap15]

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

trap15 needs a haircut.

[jepjepjep]

trap15 needs a haircut.

That's an illogical opinion.

[w-ring]

I'm really enjoying my Espgaluda cart. It's my first conversion cart (I have 20+ AES carts, 6 MVS carts and 3 PGM carts, all original to my knowledge). I've got no plans on getting any more conversions.

Sorry if I've accidently started a thread that is proving to be controversial.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

This board is polluted with bad opinions and people either having diarrhea of the mouth or talking out of their ass. I want to pick up trap15 by the ankles and dip his head in hot soapy water and straight up mop this bitch up. Get it clean in this piece with that high quality mop. Is that logical.

[KAI]

[jonny5]

Don't phoenixed versions of the games play pretty much the same as the original roms? Or have they been shown to play significantly differently? I've only ever played on a 'nixed Progear board.

My Pocket Fighter is phoenixed too, and you'd never know unless you were standing there when I fired it up and you saw the 'phoenix version' screen when it first boots. Aside from the boot screen, identical in game.

For the topic at hand, I would not put CPS2 phoenixing in the same league as cave PGM cart bootlegs, but I wouldn't personally buy a PGM boot. I also wouldn't put phoenix'd CPS2 carts in the same league as straight up conversions(Progear, AvP, etc.) either, but that's more semantics than anything. To each their own.

[monouchi]

I have all three of them and I love them. protective case, better sound etc etc.

*hides*

[Casey120]

You forgot high score saving

[Trevor spencer]

I cant wait to get my PGM carts

[trap15]

better sound

?????

[monouchi]

better sound

?????

Yep, way clearer.

[trap15]

That makes no sense.

[monouchi]

That makes no sense.

I havent thought that much about how it works, I only know that it is a big difference, theres a lot more detail in the PGM cart sound.

Maybe this have something to do with having a mobo with the sound part, instead of on the pcb.
(Though one would think that having it on the pcb would be better?)

[spadgy]

I owned my progear quite a bit before phoenixing was available but as soon as Raz worked out how to make these games suicide free , i got mine converted straight away , still dont regret it , id rather have the piece of mind one of my best games is not going to die , I wont be getting rid of it so value is not important to me

I do see both sides of the argument, but I'm lucky enough to be in Trevor spencer's camp. My only phoenixed board is Progear, and I was kind of forced into de-suiciding by a surprise suicide (while the game was en route to me, it seems!). But frankly, I'm perfectly happy with that. Being my favourite game ever, Progear is the last PCB I'd ever get rid of, and I've certainly got my money's worth, so it's relative value isn't really a concern. And the fact it started out as completely untouched original hardware does, for no particular rational reason, please me.

[system11]

That makes no sense.

I suppose it's possible there's a better analogue section on the board. It's also possible the opinion is based on a faulty real one

[monouchi]

Just to be clear, i have all three conversions and at the same time i had all three pcbs, working perfectly with no faulty sound.
They were tested on the same cab and then tested against each other on identical setup cabs.

The sound on the carts are clearer. Period.

[system11]

In that case, the analogue section is better, there's no other explanation since the data is the same.

Also, hang your head in shame for paying money to a bootlegger.

[monouchi]

In that case, the analogue section is better, there's no other explanation since the data is the same.

Also, hang your head in shame for paying money to a bootlegger.

Thats prolly it.

Nope. I prefer the protective case, better sound, no battery, high score saving.
Though I hang my head in shame cos of the game sacrificed, that felt really bad when I got the carts in my hand and saw what games they were converted from. Actually some of the best games on the PGM.

[Casey120]

This hardware was made to make money for a short period of time in the arcades and was then destined to be destroyed, it was never designed to have the battery replaced every 5 years for multiple times or caps replaced because of old age .
MAME set out to preserve these old games that most where sure to be dead and gone by now .

Now we nutters started buying and playing that stuff in our homes and so creating a whole new industry, purpose and life for these boards and that's great because instead of all of them going worthless in the bin as they should have lots are very much alive , played, repaired and carefully kept now .

I do feel some take it a bit to far and start to sound like elitists, smelling their own farts and laying down rules for others on what's right and what not .

[cools]

Elephant tusks look better carved into statues too.

[Casey120]

The internet demands you use Cars for comparisons Matt, never ever Elephants !

[cools]

I don't like the conversion of oil into carbon monoxide and particulates much either.