Tell me about the state of emulation today.

[evil_ash_xero]

I've come to the conclusion that the only way I will always be able to play all my favorite games frequently, is to emulate them.

The systems that I am interested in are PSX, Saturn, N64, Dreamcast, PS2, Gamecube, and Wii.

I know that there is the Dolphin emulator that is much hyped. But I know you have to have a powerhouse to run it.

The last time I tried emulating PSX went alright. But there were weird video glitches in SOTN and other games. Have they made progress on these things? Are we getting any closer to the universally good emulation that we have for the old 8 and 16 bit systems yet?

I remember Saturn emulation has always been bad. Has that improved at all?

I'm totally willing to buy a powerhouse PC to run emulators to play all my favorite games, but not if they're glitchy and shit.

So, what's the scoop? I'm expecting Obiwanshinobi to chime in on this one.

Also...holy crap the more recent scanline generator in MAME is just beautiful. Makes me weep with joy.

[trap15]

Saturn and N64 emulation are still shit and probably will be for some time.
PSX is making strides with some new emulators that are really promising (pSX and Mednafen's new PSX support).
Dreamcast is getting better all the time as well with nullDC.
PS2's only option is PCSX2, which I have no experience with.
Gamecube and Wii are doing very good with Dolphin.

[evil_ash_xero]

Saturn and N64 emulation are still shit and probably will be for some time.
PSX is making strides with some new emulators that are really promising (pSX and Mednafen's new PSX support).
Dreamcast is getting better all the time as well with nullDC.
PS2's only option is PCSX2, which I have no experience with.
Gamecube and Wii are doing very good with Dolphin.

Well, that's semi promising. How good are PSX and nullDC, in particular?

[trap15]

nullDC still has a fair few graphical issues, but generally works alright. I've not used it extensively.
pSX I've not used, but heard great things about. I've used Mednafen, and it's quite top-notch, though not without flaws.

[evil_ash_xero]

My computer can't run these programs, due to a weak graphics card. I plan on getting one at some point, and maybe I can try these out. There's a not a ton of games I want to emulate, and most of the ones I want to emulate on PSX are 2D. Those seem to run well in these emulators.

Disappointing to hear about the poor N64 and Saturn emulation.

[quash]

Eh, "shit" is a bit of an overstatement. SSF runs a lot of games just fine, so long as minor sound/graphical issues don't bug you. The biggest issue with SSF for me is that there seems to be a bit of input lag, which is noticeable with games like NiGHTs and obviously STG/fighters.

For Dreamcast/NAOMI emulation I like Demul best, but nullDC is also good. Just depends on what you're willing to trade off in exchange for compatibility with whatever game you want to play.

[7711]

I have an ok pc but still can't run PCSX2, however it's probably just me not knowing how to configure the damn thing as I also have issues with controls. I don't know how well its supposed to run, someone on this forum told me Ibara would run fine but it's nearly inplayable, same with most other games (3D or 2D). I'm sure you can get it to run fine but be prepared to spend a bit of time on it.

[Ed Oscuro]

http://psxemulator.gazaxian.com/ is the pSX we're talking about, right? It seems flawless - BUT - it's not been developed in some years now. It doesn't seem like there's particularly many reasons for it to be, but I suppose you could always sprinkle some of the new filtering options over it. Don't think it has screen-flipping modes for e.g. arcade ports with tate mode. There also aren't any of the "make it pretty" options seen with other emulators, but with the pSX I have always preferred to play it "chunky," as it originally looked, instead of N64 emulation which seem to benefit from running in high resolutions more.

SSF seemed pretty good last time I used it. I haven't tested it extensively or anything, though.

Project64 does seem to accurately capture many of the quirks of programs - but it's buggy and prone to strange behaviors, like running at a high rate of speed for a few seconds after loading a state, messy and outdated graphics plugins (even the "good" ones) with no good emulation of SD, and of course many programs that used some unique tricks remain broken (i.e. Hercules, but you can play through all the interesting parts of the game so it's no big loss). Been having fun grabbing keys, coins, and Doing the Dew in the Rush games. Plugins are a particularly sore point; you have to search high and low for e.g. DarkMan's DInput plugin (seems useful for FPSes), but worse are the graphics plugins, each of which has its own behavior. The emulator doesn't play nice when you change plugins or plugin settings; in Beetle Adventure Racing! I noticed it would randomly lose alpha channel transparency when switching over to a plugin, only to mysteriously restore it later. The basic emulator isn't stable; once I came back to the emulator and found polygons missing at random from surfaces in Diddy Kong Racing, so I played with savestates, soft-reset the game, and tried other incantations - only then did I realize I had to close out the program and reopen it to fix the problem.

1964 has made some strides, and the latest versions seem to include the overclocking setting (done by the RetroCopy guy) which can help a few games. When it comes to actually running games that do not fare well on Project64, it doesn't seem to do better (e.g. it has the same screen problems as does Project64 when running Duck Dodgers, except possibly all the time, instead of just in certain levels). The controller plugin setup has much better facility for using mouse and keyboard controls, but it suffers from a really awful UI and will give you headaches for long periods on end as you wonder which to use - the Use or Save button.

Dreamcast and newer I don't know anything about.

[AntiFritz]

Every game I've tried on pcsx2 runs fine for me (full speed etc) except some games still have graphical issues. I have a intel 2500k though.

EDIT: Sega Naomi emulation didn't seem very good last I tried a few months ago. Not many graphical issues but horrible framerates and input lag.

[7711]

Every game I've tried on pcsx2 runs fine for me (full speed etc) except some games still have graphical issues. I have a intel 2500k though.

I have a 8 core 4.20 Ghz, granted its an AMD but still...

[KennyMan666]

SSF is an all around excellent Saturn emulator, I've only ran into one "game-breaking" bug and that was really only the ending cutscene of a game not loading properly so the entire game could still be played perfectly.

N64 emulation is not a thing I myself have ever tried, but Bizhawk is a recently developed multi-emulator I've never used that, among other things, does N64 based on Mupen. It supposedly does Saturn as well, actually.

[evil_ash_xero]

http://psxemulator.gazaxian.com/ is the pSX we're talking about, right? It seems flawless - BUT - it's not been developed in some years now. It doesn't seem like there's particularly many reasons for it to be, but I suppose you could always sprinkle some of the new filtering options over it.

No scanlines.

[Softdrink 117]

PCSX2 is... interesting. It works, but configuration is very important. You'll often need to tweak settings when changing games, and some games outright will not work. At all. Plus, it takes a pretty serious system to get decent performance out of it. Consistent 60fps is definitely achievable in some games, however, if you're willing to take the time to get everything playing together nicely. It's a totally different beast than more 'finished' emulators, like Dolphin or MAME.

I have an ok pc but still can't run PCSX2, however it's probably just me not knowing how to configure the damn thing as I also have issues with controls. I don't know how well its supposed to run, someone on this forum told me Ibara would run fine but it's nearly inplayable, same with most other games (3D or 2D). I'm sure you can get it to run fine but be prepared to spend a bit of time on it.

That was me, and indeed, I can get Ibara to run in a totally playable state via PCSX2. Configuring the emulator correctly for your system, and for a given game, can be a research project in and of itself. It's finicky, but absolutely worth the effort IMHO. I'd give you more specific advice, but it's really a case-by-case thing.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Saturn`s emulation has made a lot of progress in recent years. SSF is the only great Saturn emulator around, but the compatibility is very high and constantly improving. I was recording some footage of Saturn games recently using SSF and out of 65 games that I recorded footage of there wasn`t a single one that didn`t run or ran with glitches. It is much more demanding than PSX and even Dreamcast emulation, however(still nothing that a modern PC can`t handle though). So, keep that in mind.

For PSX, there`s a number of really good emulators. Some are plugin-based, some are not. Don`t like one - try another. Generally, the compatibility is very high. Outside of some PocketStation exclusive stuff, I don`t think there still exist PSX games that remain unemulated.

N64 emulation has seen the least progress in the past decade. Most of N64`s best games are playable, but usually not without some tinkering in the settings. Project64 and 1964 are the emulators you would want to use.

PS2 emulation. Good and getting better. I finished at least half a hundred of games using PCSX2. After you witness Gradius V running at a resolution five times of the original or a widescreen Twisted Metal: Black in HD, you won`t want to go back to your PS2.

Dreamcast. NullDC is the best Dreamcast and Naomi emulator around, but Demul works well for many games too. NullDC has very low system requirements and high compatibility. Shenmue 1-2, Bangai-O, Ikaruga, CvS1-2, Under Defeat, Zero Gunner 2, Jet Set Radio, Elemental Gimmick Gear and many others all run very well. WindowsCE libraries remain unemulated, so any Dreamcast games that used them(like Sega Rally 2 and Virtua Cop 2) are unplayable.

Wii and Gamecube. Dolphin is progressing as fast as PCSX2, but far less stable overall and much more prone to crashes. Still, works well for many games, but demands a fast CPU, as is PCSX2.

PSP(I know you didn`t ask about the state of PSP emulation, but I believe it deserves a mention). It had been average to bad until the arrival of PPSSPP to the scene less than a year ago. The latter`s been developing at a rather unprecedented rate and many games are already playable to the end. If it keeps up like that, it`ll easily start matching PCSX2 and Dolphin in the compatibility department by 2015 if not sooner.

Atomiswave(also deserves a mention as many are still unaware that it is at all possible to emulate Atomiswave). Demul runs most of its games fairly well. Some are prone to serious slowdown(Metal Slug 6), but overall full speed and very few glitches. If you want to play Dolphin Blue and Rumble Fish 2 at home without having to buy the arcade hardware, Demul is a good option.

[AntiFritz]

PSP(I know you didn`t ask about the state of PSP emulation, but I believe it deserves a mention). It had been average to bad until the arrival of PPSSPP to the scene less than a year ago. The latter`s been developing at a rather unprecedented rate and many games are already playable to the end. If it keeps up like that, it`ll easily start matching PCSX2 and Dolphin in the compatibility department by 2015 if not sooner.

This, I was playing ultimate ghosts and goblins on ppsspp and it ran perfect. It's also got an android build but I don't know how well that runs.

[ciox]

CPU speed is what you need to run PCSX2 well, by far. I tried to run R-Type Final on my gaming PC and it chugged like hell, tried it on a PC with integrated graphics but a better CPU and it worked just fine. Finding the right combo of speedhacks for each game is still important though, look for those in the options. There's also issues where some games don't run well on the default graphics drivers, like XIIStag.
Of course it's all worth it, being able to up the draw resolution makes 3D games look amazing.

[Ed Oscuro]

I should mention that Project64 recently got a real no-shit 2.1 version, after years of somebody or other asking us to pay money to get the "beta" 1.7 version (which was a notable improvement over 1.6 and there never was any stability reason to hold it back from general release). Unfortunately, I can't say that 2.1 is universally improved over the previous releases, but see the comments again on the apparent poor state of the code for that emulator.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Not really following the news as I just started saving up for a long overdue upgrade, but one thing you'd better take into consideration is electricity cost. You might save some time playing everything on one machine, but expect it to be power-consuming.
PSX textured polygons look better without filtering indeed.
I'm pretty sure emulators that do everything software way require more computing power and consume more juice as a result (sometimes an older emulator, technically not as accurate as more recent one, runs what you want just fine at a lower cost).
Last but not least, you didn't ask but I find Ootake underappreciated. Nothing wrong with it that I found (and English version is comprehensible enough for my liking). I also read that Mega Drive emulation on the Wii (sic!) was more advanced than on PC at some point.

[CIT]

What are the options for PC89/98 and X68000 emulation?

[Obiwanshinobi]

WinX68kHighSpeed let me play Aquales, Wolf Team games and Xanadu (68000 port) with a joypad, as well as Neural Gear with a mouse. Not sure which version it was, but the menus were in English. Some other emulator/version wouldn't display one layer in Aquales, but it's been a while...

[KAI]

PC89/98

PC89/98 emulation is a pain in the ass, lots of compatibility problems.
For PC-88 you have M88 and X88000.

EDIT: Sega Naomi emulation didn't seem very good last I tried a few months ago. Not many graphical issues but horrible framerates and input lag.

Try with Makaron.

The EX-Board emulation works perfectly.
The Hyper Neo-Geo 64 emulation is still atrocious.
Decent System 246 and Chihiro emulation fucking when?
No System Board Y2 emulation yet.
Beatmania IIDX emulation is ok, but, 25gb.

SSF works better than any PSX emulator I've tried.

[Jonathan Ingram]

I have a 8 core 4.20 Ghz, granted its an AMD but still...

Most games should fly on this CPU. Just remember not to use the MTVU and EE Cycle Rate speed hacks simultaneously as it may negatively affect the performance and never ever enable VU Cycle Stealing. The latter puts the game in slow motion the further you move the slider to the right while the emulator continues to report the game as running at full speed. And unless a game is performing really bad, the hacks should be left unchecked.

Setting the internal resolution too high(like '6x Native') also may affect the performance in a very negative way, especially if you have a weak GPU.

Pressing F9 in-game switches the emulator to the software mode which may be faster for some games(very, very few) and is generally more accurate.

someone on this forum told me Ibara would run fine but it's nearly inplayable

Ibara is problematic. It dips into the mid 40s once the serious action starts and remains there for the majority of the game. Changing plugins and DirectX modes, enabling speed hacks and trying to run the game on different PCs does nothing. Overclocking the CPU and GPU doesn`t add even a single digit to the frame rate. It`s been at least a year since I last tested it though, so maybe things have improved. MAME`s the better option for Ibara anyway.

On the other hand, DDP DOJ, Gradius V, Psyvariar 2: Ultimate Final and Radirgy Precious all run without hiccups.

[AntiFritz]

EDIT: Sega Naomi emulation didn't seem very good last I tried a few months ago. Not many graphical issues but horrible framerates and input lag.

Try with Makaron.

The EX-Board emulation works perfectly.
The Hyper Neo-Geo 64 emulation is still atrocious.
Decent System 246 and Chihiro emulation fucking when?
No System Board Y2 emulation yet.
Beatmania IIDX emulation is ok, but, 25gb.

SSF works better than any PSX emulator I've tried.

Yeah maybe I should. I only tried both nulldc and demul.

[shmuppyLove]

PPSSPP is the real deal, I can't believe how well and easily it works. There's not even an installer, you just extract the archive, run it, select an ISO and boom you're playing. It comes ready for a 360 pad out of the box.

What I would die for (and I think you can do, poking around in it now) is to be able to map the save location to an actual PSP connected by USB, so I can play on my PC, save my game, and then pick it up later on my PSP.

Edit: Ok, so you can just copy the save data back and forth, and it does work. It might be possible to create a symlink in the PPSSPP folder to the actual folder on the PSP memory stick where the saves are stored. Or I could also take the memory stick out and pop it in my card reader. Question is, what happens when that device isn't there ...

Edit2: Symlink to the PSP connect by USB works And I also tested with the PSP disconnected, and the emulator/game runs ok, you just get an error about "No Data" if you try to load a game. This is pretty perfect!

[ZellSF]

I would say N64/PSX and anything later is "glitchy". For those consoles there will always be stuff that isn't exactly the same as the original.

If you want to try any of it, the fastest processor you can get your hands on (speed of cores is more important than amount of cores) is very recommended.

[shmuppyLove]

I would say N64/PSX and anything later is "glitchy". For those consoles there will always be stuff that isn't exactly the same as the original.

If you want to try any of it, the fastest processor you can get your hands on (speed of cores is more important than amount of cores) is very recommended.

Also a 64-bit OS and 64-bit build of the emulator makes a huge difference.

[BryanM]

ePSXe had a new version recentlyish, with a new graphics plug-in. It makes it possible to play things like Silhouette Mirage now.

PCSX2 is a thing of beauty. With a 3.8 Ghz Pentium 4, the Persona games run like a dog whenever there's more than 3 units on the screen. The notes on some of the latest revisions claim some speed improvements, but I don't expect much if anything at all from them. A 3.4 Ghz processor of a CPU line that doesn't suck should be meaty enough for most things.

[Ed Oscuro]

This is fun

Try to get Quake II to start with two controllers recognized in Project64 -> doesn't work
Try to reload controller mappings in Turok III -> doesn't work
Play some more S.F. Rush -> Where did my old saves and the memory pak progress (with all the keys I got) go? (Recuva doesn't see anything...)



Edit: Haha, none of the games are detecting memory pak saves now...except they're still there, and the memory pak is selected in the controller plugin. ?_? Daamnit, so much progress lost if I can't fix this.

Edit #2: Going to the controller plugin page, and unloading and reloading the memory pak solves it for Rush and Rush 2 so far. Very strange that it should do this. Savestates don't affect memory pak usage - at least they shouldn't - but why it's doing this is beyond me, especially when it's not overwritten the old memory pak, and supposedly has it loaded.

You see how aggravating even routine shit can be in Project64 2.1?

[7711]

Most games should fly on this CPU. Just remember not to use the MTVU and EE Cycle Rate speed hacks simultaneously as it may negatively affect the performance and never ever enable VU Cycle Stealing. The latter puts the game in slow motion the further you move the slider to the right while the emulator continues to report the game as running at full speed. And unless a game is performing really bad, the hacks should be left unchecked.

Indeed, for no apparent reason pcsx2 started running at 120 fps, and since I couldn't find how to fix this I deleted every changes I made in the config. Now everything runs fine, followed what you guys said and its perfect, so I guess I just fucked up at some point.
Still have a lot of issues with controls but other than that it should be good.
Thanks for the help, and sorry I kinda hijacked the thread

[shmuppyLove]

Savestates don't affect memory pak usage - at least they shouldn't

I remember reading this exact situation in the ePSXe documentation:

Question : When I save my game using the memory cards after loading a save state, it saves fine, but the save data is missing/older when I play it the next time, what gives?

1. You start the game in ePSXe and the memcards you have selected in the GUI are used.
2. You make a SaveState - this includes PSX RAM, GPU VRAM, SPU RAM, and memcards (<- important!)
3. You quit ePSXe, go do something really important in RealLife™, and then come back
4. You start the game in ePSXe and the memcards you have selected in the GUI are used.
5. You load the SaveState - here is the problem: what should happen to the memcards? They need to be restored from the SaveState, but should they overwrite the ones that you have selected in the GUI? That _could_ trash some important saves! So the safe route is taken: some memcards called temp.000 & temp.001 are created from the SaveState, and ePSXe then uses those for the rest of the game, until closed.