Milestone hate?

[KAI]

Why?
I would like to hear good reasons, not random shit.

[chum]

random shit is like a religion around here

[Kollision]

where did you get this hate from?

[BulletMagnet]

You do occasionally see people voice a dislike for Milestone's stuff, though I'm not sure it's any more pervasive than voiced dislike for Cave/Touhou/anything else. Then again the OP's (presumably) just looking for specific reasons why, not lamenting about how everyone hates it.

[Special World]

I just... don't like their games? They feel poorly thought out and not fun to play for survival or score. Radirgy is okay but Karous and Chaos Field are a total mess. All their games are horrible ugly too.

imo.

[MathU]

I could see one disliking their games from purely a survivalist perspective, since most of their games aren't super challenging on a basic level, but MileStone was all about making fun and engaging scoring systems. They basically transformed Compile's frenzied enemy and item barrage style into a modern arcade orientation.

In a way, their games were sort of the polar opposite of CAVE's. CAVE likes to provide very high-end challenge (or at least the illusion of such) while their games typically have absolutely dreadful afterthought scoring systems. MileStone provided imaginative and fun scoring systems while their games had quite low base challenge (everything changes when you play for a good score of course). When I see someone talk about how incredibly easy a game like Karous is to single-credit clear it just kind of feels to me like they've entirely missed the point of the game.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Hate is a strong word. Indifferent is how I am towards them.

I've tried to get into Milestone's DC releases but just didn't have fun with them. Chaos Field's boss rush style is something I'm not into.

Having branched off from Compile and done nothing that can touch their shooters doesn't help either. Meh.

[Erppo]

CAVE likes to provide very high-end challenge (or at least the illusion of such) while their games typically have absolutely dreadful afterthought scoring systems.

There goes all the credibility that post could have had.

[Bananamatic]

cave scoring is wank though

[Despatche]

I just... don't like their games? They feel poorly thought out and not fun to play for survival or score. Radirgy is okay but Karous and Chaos Field are a total mess. All their games are horrible ugly too.

imo.

kinda hard to be an opinion when it's all about what's "objectively terrible", other than the fun bit of course. that's why i try not to deal in them.

my only gripes with milestone's work involve things that don't have a whole lot to do with the game. for example, music: the weak "final boss" versus strong "boss" and "true final boss" themes always bothered me; even chaosfield (has no tlb) had that, ugh. of course i don't find it "bad", and it's obviously intentional... just bothers me.

another music thing: seems milestone osts like to be cut in small ways. at the very least, the final boss theme of karous has a "re" part at the end cut out, and the msc does not have the karous dc menu loop (it does have cf's menu loop and even its type 2s!).

otherwise i can't say much, as chaosfield is hard with a gc controller.

...

cave scoring can be fun. dp is fun. doj is fun. ketsui is mean, but ok ketsui is mean in raw difficulty. deathsmiles and ii are probably fun. mushi is probably not-fun.

[IseeThings]

I found their DC games to be dull from a gameplay point of view, and incredibly ugly from a gfx point of view, and the general styling didn't appeal to me either.

maybe they're great if you're playing them for score and get into all the mechanics, but simply playing them for enjoyment / surface level satisfaction.. I'm not convinced.

[roker]

I'm indifferent. They just have this special talent for making incredibly boring games.

[Jeneki]

My only real criticism would be too many repeated enemy patterns over multiple levels. Often times, when an enemy enters the screen I know exactly how it's going to move because it's the same as it's been for every previous level for that enemy. Some extra variety would spice things up.

Otherwise, I do like the feeling of "running along a cliff edge" you get from quickly recharging bombs to fire them off one after another to send the multiplier through the roof, and knowing that one little mess up will put me in a tricky spot with no bomb charged.

[Vetus]

Personally I like Milestone shmups, expecially Radilgy series which is one of my favourite shmup generally. Such a shame that Milestone closed because its president has been arrested.
http://www.siliconera.com/2013/03/21/ch ... 84xUb9Z.99

[denpanosekai]

I'm OK with Milestone games. Bought most of them.

[Special World]

I just... don't like their games? They feel poorly thought out and not fun to play for survival or score. Radirgy is okay but Karous and Chaos Field are a total mess. All their games are horrible ugly too.

imo.

kinda hard to be an opinion when it's all about what's "objectively terrible", other than the fun bit of course. that's why i try not to deal in them.

topic is "milestone hate" not "milestone is objectively terrible"

i have milestone dislike

[KAI]

So the main reasons why people hate their games it's because they are:
Ugly
Boring
Dull
Not fun
horrible ugly
repetitive
a total mess

Now I understand why Kimura went crazy.

[dark]

I enjoy the milestone games because the graphics and styling for Radirgy and Karous are so different from the norm and because they represent a final era of Dreamcast games and the Dreamcast is my favorite console of all time. I like Chaos Field because of the music, aesthetic, and that homing laser weapon the girl has, even if its not a perfect game. I've never played Illvelo or Radirgy Noa, or any other milestone games.

From the three I have played though, these would be my slight gripes.
-there are too many bullets that you can shoot away with your own shot in radirgy and karous, this and the passive shield don't make the games particularly difficult from a bullet dodging perspective. The games scroll somewhat slowly as well, so the adrenaline/excitement level that I get from Cave games isn't anywhere to be found.
-the ships and bullet patterns in Chaos Field seem very regular - many of the ones in the last stage for instance are just circular bursts that radiate outward and fill the entire screen. It makes each playthrough feel the same and provides less variety in the replay value
-I like having the high powered weapons in Karous, but I don't like grinding to get them in each playthrough. Playing Karous is less about bullet dodging and shooting stuff a lot than it is about "just barely" reaching different plateus of gameplay - being able to flip every last item into a sword, getting just enough hits onto the level 3 and level 4 bosses so they don't time out and retreat. While I appreciate that this is kind of novel and an unusual system for a shmup, I'm not actually convinced that it is fun

[qmish]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 7&start=90 posts belong here.

[Noah!]

Ugly
Boring
Dull
Not fun
horrible ugly
repetitive
a total mess

[Strikers1945guy]

I love milestone

Is everyone happy now

[qmish]

Average? They aren't average.

They are...

Left field among arcade-released stgs.

[M.Knight]

Wouldn't say Milestone shooters are bad, but their games are typically dead-average to a fault. I still want to get Radirgy Noa, Radirgy Generic (GC) and Illvelo at some point though.

Be advised that the GC version of Radirgy does not properly save on non-JP consoles, as do some JP Namco titles such as Mr Driller : Drill Land (a cool game by the way). Nintendon't on the Wii can thankfully bypass this issue, while also allowing you to use a Classic Controller Pro which is in our case much more convenient than the GameCube controller.
Illvelo is a favorite of mine, and its various bonus stages provide a good incentive to get into the scoring because the incremental nature of the multiplier makes it easier to track your progress from run to run by simply looking at how many keys you got.
However, as we discussed with KAI in another thread, it is true that it steals a bit of the focus from the caravan-style gameplay.
In any case, I would recommend you to get Radirgy and Illvelo before Radirgy Noa as the latter is not as well-balanced.

[Plasmo]

You want to know a good reason for the milestone hate?

Watch this: https://youtu.be/rsJJGxXDO9M. Everybody who doesn't have a 1cc under his belt now has one.

I think their games are alright though.

[ciox]

You want to know a good reason for the milestone hate?

Watch this: https://youtu.be/rsJJGxXDO9M. Everybody who doesn't have a 1cc under his belt now has one.

I think their games are alright though.

Agreed, now we know that playing for score makes a game more alert but you just can't do stuff like you see in that video, or say this video, without the game being breezy as hell. This is why I like Chaos Field the most out of Milestone, because it's at least still possible to get wrecked even if you abuse your bullet cancels. (Spray also helps, tbh. it's no Stab&Stomp but it's up there for me)

[Plasmo]

You want to know a good reason for the milestone hate?

Watch this: https://youtu.be/rsJJGxXDO9M. Everybody who doesn't have a 1cc under his belt now has one.

I think their games are alright though.

Agreed, now we know that playing for score makes a game more alert but you just can't do stuff like you see in that video, or say this video, without the game being breezy as hell.

I disagree wholeheartedly. Psyvariar 2 is a completely different story. That game is ace.

Your clip only shows a very brief section of the very first stage. On top of that, you can easily die there since you have no continuous shield as in Karous but have to scratch bullets for it.

[Squire Grooktook]

^^^I think that really depends on what kind of weapon system / scoring system you have overall.

Sure, for Pysvariar's graze shielding it works, but for other mechanics I could see "easy survival, hard scoring" being a legit trade off for a unique weapon system or scoring system.

[qmish]

Eh, i never beat even boss 1 of Psyvariar 2, maybe cause of small screen or smth...

edit:
oh, nice, i gonna 1-Karous shmups now
joking.

Really, r u even serious? Hating it because some random guy can 1-Karous game and say "i have 1cc" in an hour while you spent weeks-months-years to your Progear 2nd loop?

[ciox]

Ya'll think I'm ripping on Psyvariar with a Psyvariar avatar? There's nothing wrong with its mechanics, all I'm saying is the enemy formations in Psyvariar 2 are way too sparse and rarefied, combined with the shield mechanics inherited from the first games it allows you to game the system too much, a lot like what you have going on in Karous. Even stage 3 in 2, the most alert one, is built around eliminating threats quickly then going back to hugging the walls. Compare that to the monster flow you have in Psyvariar Revision's stages like Earth->Volcano, the only point in 2 where you get that kind of intensity is when you're fighting the TLB at the endgame.

[d0s]

So the main reasons why people hate their games it's because they are:
Ugly
Boring
Dull
Not fun
horrible ugly
repetitive
a total mess

Now I understand why Kimura went crazy.

I actually think all this applies to Chaos Field and I don't like that game very much at all. Everything after that is dope though

e: chaos field's soundtrack might be my fave KHDN thing though