Videon -> SLG3000 -> OptomaHD3000 = no scanlines

[HDgaming42]

So I'm trying to utilize some "second tier" gear i have to enable a retro-gaming setup upstairs.

I'm running S-video and composite (I know, I know it's second tier and the Videon doesn't do RGB input!) into a Videon Omega one for line doubling as the Optoma and my LCD really don't like 240p. I can output via Component to the Optoma (the LCD scaling is crap) but then I don't get scanlines.

Using the RGB out (VGA connection) on the Videon seems to deliver RGBS. If I attempt to send RGB via the Videon menus I get this (click to enlgarge):



Switching to YPbPr gets me the proper look:



Adding the SLG3000 at this point gets me no picture. I figure it is expecting RGBHV. No problem, like most of you I'm a little bit crazy and have three extron sync converters lying around. So I take in the Videon RGBS and output RGBHV via the VGA on the front:



The output of that then feeds the SLG3000 and it passes an image, but no scanlines:



Optoma sees it as 480p:



For interest's sake, the sync converter taking the output of the SL3000 and feeding the Optoma via BNC RGB (I have an S line connected too, but it doesn't seem to accept a signal if I try to utilize anything with it):



I believe I've flipped every damn setting and dip switch available to me in every conceivable sane order, but surely I'm missing something. I've tried running everything up until the last extron but instead feeding a VGA monitor and I get nothing. No picture recognized.

What am I missing here? SLG3000 with both DIP 4,5 switched OFF results in no picture passing to the Optoma. I've flipped all the RGB DIPS off and on. I've rotated the rotary dial to both extremes. I'm plumb out of ideas...and frustrated.

This hobby always seems to provide a ratio of 100:1 setup time to play-time!!! =)

Thanks for the help!

[Fudoh]

Using the RGB out (VGA connection) on the Videon seems to deliver RGBS. If I attempt to send RGB via the Videon menus I get this (click to enlgarge):

The Videon delivers the SAME output on the 5 RCA outputs ports and on the HD15 output. The format gets set in the menu - two entries in the output menu. RGBHV <> YPbPr and SoG on/off. To get RGBHV - again, no matter on which output, you set the color format to RGBHV and SoG to off. This will also make the SLG3000 work properly. You might have flipped one switch, but not both.

Right now you just feed YPbPr through the SLG3000. No seperate sync, no flip flop function, no scanlines.

[Fudoh]

PS:

So I take in the Videon RGBS and output RGBHV via the VGA on the front:

which interface is that ? On all the interfaces I know only the BNC outputs are processed. The HD15 output is just a passthrough (mirrored) output of the input signal.

[HDgaming42]

Thanks for the quick reply. Removing all the Extron(s) and running straight to the SLG3000 with RGB and SoG (disabled) works as expected. Thank-you!

DIP switches 4 and 5 need to be off. Optoma sees it as 640x480 via both the rear BNC and front VGA connector.

I thought the Optoma was able to see 720x480 over VGA...

[Fudoh]

I thought the Optoma was able to see 720x480 over VGA...

no, unfortunately not. That's why DC looks better on the Optoma if trancoded to component first.

[HDgaming42]

I thought the Optoma was able to see 720x480 over VGA...

no, unfortunately not. That's why DC looks better on the Optoma if trancoded to component first.

But the SLG3000 is passing it, correct? This is all assuming the Videon is outputting 720x480 to begin with...

Perhaps I'll have to invest in a transcoder. Image looks...squished.

[Fudoh]

The SLG doesn't mind. The Videon does output 480p. That's a video timing and not identical to the VESA 640x480 timing. It's usually not about aspect ratio problems (just use the Optoma's horizontal zoom control). It's about the input sampling. You're basically loosing 80 columns of resolution. It sounds more terrifying than it actually is - especially since 99% of all TVs and monitors also just see 480p as VGA.

[HDgaming42]

I had forgotten why I'd got the extron(s) involved at all. This is what Videon -> SLG3000 -> LCD looks like.



Mmmmmmmm. Now that's good and crazy. Damn you Vizio and your lack of any control over anything pertinent on the VGA input!

You're basically loosing 80 columns of resolution. It sounds more terrifying than it actually is

But is it just cropping it (I'm OK with this) or is it "squishing it"? perhaps I'm just used to the geometry of my PVM vs. what I'm seeing on the LCD...

[Fudoh]

If you add an Extron, set the Videon to output RGB with SoG resulting in RGsB and have the Extron convert from RGsB to RGBHV, it will be clean and the Vizio should have no more problems with it. Put the SLG behind the Extron. That's what I do on my setup. And remember that you have to use the BNC outputs on the interface.

[Fudoh]

But is it just cropping it (I'm OK with this) or is it "squishing it"

neither nor, it's just not sampling every column.

[HDgaming42]

On all the interfaces I know only the BNC outputs are processed. The HD15 output is just a passthrough (mirrored) output of the input signal.

And remember that you have to use the BNC outputs on the interface.

That would explain a lot. I only have one VGA to 5xBNC at the moment, so I was going VGA out of the extron(s), negating what they were doing and simply passing on the source signal(s)! LOL.

Thanks for all the help.

[HDgaming42]

If you add an Extron, set the Videon to output RGB with SoG resulting in RGsB and have the Extron convert from RGsB to RGBHV, it will be clean and the Vizio should have no more problems with it. Put the SLG behind the Extron. That's what I do on my setup. And remember that you have to use the BNC outputs on the interface.

LIES!!! Extron's magical ADSP doesn't seem to be doing much of anything but making the Vizio really angry. After performing the above I either get that messed up picture I posted earlier (direct to Visio) or straight green and black imagery. Seems random and can be triggered by killing the power to the Extron, or tuning away from VGA on the Visio and back. Predominately messed up, occasionally green and black.

For fun I tried two of my units (SCS 300), all running in and out via BNC. I used cables that all work once the Optoma is involved. I also tried both the VGA and RCA outs of the Videon. Same result.

I'm unfamiliar with this look. What does it typically indicate?



Voltage mis-match?

[Fudoh]

But other VGA sources are fine on your Vizio ?

The look indicates than there's still a sync signal present on the Green color channel, thus messing up the TV's ability to properly decode the Green channel. Only happens very rarely. I think I've only seen a single display so far having trouble with this. You can verify this by just switching around the color inputs on or from the Extron - or just pulling the green one. You should get a normal picture (besides missing greens).

But since the Videon even has a SoG switch, I'm not sure why there would be a green push left once it's switched off.

[HDgaming42]

But other VGA sources are fine on your Vizio ?

The look indicates than there's still a sync signal present on the Green color channel, thus messing up the TV's ability to properly decode the Green channel. Only happens very rarely. I think I've only seen a single display so far having trouble with this. You can verify this by just switching around the color inputs on or from the Extron - or just pulling the green one. You should get a normal picture (besides missing greens).

But since the Videon even has a SoG switch, I'm not sure why there would be a green push left once it's switched off.

Yes, Dreamcast and 360 look fine over VGA on the Vizio.

Pulling Green results in no picture.

Of possible interest - Videon -> (VGA to RGBS cable) to an 8" PVM (with SoG) results in a picture horizontally compressed (doubled). I guess that's to be expected if the monitor is only expecting 240p....? Image colors and exposure are correct though.

Videon VGA direct to Dell LCD monitor shows no picture at all.

Videon VGA direct to Visio results in wacko over-exposed image.

(all of the above were tried with both SoG, without, and RGB and YPbPr)

Oh well--looks like the Optoma avoids the sales-bin for a bit longer (though the Videon -> SLD3000 -> Optoma -> Visio chain seems to have quite noticeable lag...)

PS I should add that the Visio has the most adorable feature where it shuts off after 1 min of no signal. Disabling this feature works on every input...except VGA. Thanks Visio. Thanks for protecting my bargain basement LCD from...burn-in? Premature backlight death? But just on VGA--the kids could leave a blu-ray paused for 12 weeks on HDMI1--no worries there.

????

[Fudoh]

Pulling Green results in no picture.
Videon VGA direct to Dell LCD monitor shows no picture at all.

those two are extremely weird, as they both suggest that the Videon does still output SoG and no HV sync at all. Videon/Dell is a combo I've set up my self only a few weeks ago a friend's house.

Of possible interest - Videon -> (VGA to RGBS cable) to an 8" PVM (with SoG) results in a picture horizontally compressed (doubled). I guess that's to be expected if the monitor is only expecting 240p....? Image colors and exposure are correct though.

yes and you can damage your CRT by doing so.

[Fudoh]

though the Videon -> SLG3000 -> Optoma -> Visio chain seems to have quite noticeable lag...

at some point it simply sums up. About 32ms for the Videon. Around 20ms for the Optoma and your display will have lag as well.

[HDgaming42]

Pulling Green results in no picture.
Videon VGA direct to Dell LCD monitor shows no picture at all.

those two are extremely weird, as they both suggest that the Videon does still output SoG and no HV sync at all. Videon/Dell is a combo I've set up my self only a few weeks ago a friend's house.

And yet it works directly through the SLG3000--which I believe only accepts RGBHV...I don't get it.

I'm running firmware 1.16. It doesn't appear the firmware was ever intended to be updated by owners, but did anything ever leak like the procedure for the Optoma units? Or is 1.16 the end of the line?

As for lag--that's why I was hoping to eliminate the Optoma altogether, and avoid the Vizio's HDMI port (hoping VGA has a lower delay). I didn't think I was as sensitive to it as this...I'm not playing shooters--but when platformers become a chore I know something's up.

[Fudoh]

Just to recheck: If you wire it up like this:

OMEGA > EXTRON > SLG > VIZIO

And on the Extron SoG is disabled via dip switch and so is composite sync, how does the result on the Vizio change when you enable/disable SoG on the Omega ?

[HDgaming42]

Just to recheck: If you wire it up like this:

OMEGA > EXTRON > SLG > VIZIO

And on the Extron SoG is disabled via dip switch and so is composite sync, how does the result on the Vizio change when you enable/disable SoG on the Omega ?

I won't be able to get at any re-wiring today (unless I'm lucky) but I will try this when I have a moment and report back.

I do recall that having all the dip switches OFF on the extron, with the Videon sending SoG gave no picture, but toggling DIP 7 (no sync processing) would give me the messed up colours. Almost as if the Vizio is trying when it gets SoG, but cannot handle the RGBHV output of either the Videon directly or the Extron's converted RGBHV. (but it's OK with Xbox360 and DC RGBHV)

But my recollection of what happened in what order is far from infallible. I'll report back when I've had a chance to try wiring it the way you've requested. As always-thanks for the help.

[HDgaming42]

Had to finalize the wiring of the upstairs entertainment center and move on to fixing my crumbling house. I suspect I will never know the exact reasons for this--though I suspect the RGBHV my particular Videon is outputting is messed up in some fashion.

The lag was terrible in that chain anyway (I assume my LCD adds a tonne) so I threw an 8" PVM on a shelf--I'll game on that.

Looks crazy, but DAT LAG.

Dying at the hands of the first goomba in SMB? Unacceptable.