Rainbow Six series (and realistic/procedural FPS games)

[Edmond Dantes]

Posting new topic so it won't derail the "little things that annoy you" thread.

One thing that's good about playing the Rainbow Six games solo is that you get to see all of the levels.

The other possibility is just having a couple agents around the level, when necessary to tackle things from different angles. It's funny but I don't recall the series ever attempting to do simultaneous takedowns until the "new era" (R6 Vegas and the like); previously all you needed was to silently take out a group of enemies in a room and that would be enough to keep the hostages safe, despite the insinuation that you had to coordinate those.

Hell, nine times out of ten all I do is get lucky, get the first shot in (or, more likely, my teammates get the first shot in) and the terrorist is down without harming the hostages. I don't even plan anymore... just make one four-man team and explore the level, hoping I don't get sniped.

Only time I DO plan, I basically just have the other teams run around walking into the rooms, in the hope that they'll bag the terrorists before I have to. Even then, they usually get hung up on doorways or something.

Just a question... is there a point to using named officers at all, when you can simply use the nameless "Reserves" who, in my experience so far, are just as good and it doesn't matter if they get capped or not?

... Since this is now a topic, another question:

Rainbow Six: Dreamcast vs PC -- which is better?

[Damocles]

Rainbow Six: Dreamcast vs PC -- which is better?

As a fella who completed both the original and Rogue Spear on the Dreamcast...for chrissakes don't do it. Remembering the D-pad commands for everything was a bitch. Love the series, but damn.

[drauch]

Yeah, older RB6 games deserve to be played on a PC. New Vegas and its sequel handle really well with the 360 controller, though.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Anyone played The Regiment? I don't like when games "pimp the army" like that, but one thing that always interested me about it was the - reportedly - fast pacing. All missions are supposed to be very brief. Gotta like the blokes' accents too. Remind me of Project I.G.I., where the playable chap is Welsh.

[Ji-L87]

Will I get jumped upon if I say that personally, R6 games became fun to play with the release of Raven Shield?

[Ed Oscuro]

Raven Shield kept a lot of the feel of previous games but was more modern in many ways. So...I don't know, really. The original games were just ahead of their time, but especially some of the expansion / later levels for the first game. The original set of missions (not to mention the covert mission, bleh) for R6 were pretty primitive.

[Acid King]

I played through the original and Eagle Watch on the PC probably 12 years ago. I liked them both, and I may be the odd man out here but I liked planning the missions and made use of multiple teams, never really had a problem with the AI. Once you got an idea of the level layout and basic strategies it wasn't too tough. It was a bit of trial and error but I enjoyed it.

[Ed Oscuro]

The AI is quite good (although I didn't rely on them to take out enemies for me), but the timing of go-codes and the like is kind of a mental barrier for many. Of course the games are mostly intended to be played without worrying about the other teams' ability to clear through rooms, but I also never got the feeling that go codes were usually needed. I wonder, did anybody use go codes for the primary unit on the stealth mission of the original? That would be something else.

[Damocles]

I wonder, did anybody use go codes for the primary unit on the stealth mission of the original? That would be something else.

The mission where you infiltrate the house? That would be insane. IIRC, I went solo with that one. Someone needs to do a vid of automating that mission.

[Edmond Dantes]

Rainbow Six: Dreamcast vs PC -- which is better?

As a fella who completed both the original and Rogue Spear on the Dreamcast...for chrissakes don't do it. Remembering the D-pad commands for everything was a bitch. Love the series, but damn.

Yeah, I just realized that would probably be the biggest issue with that version.

Since its running fine on my PC, I won't bother with console ports.

...

In other news, I'm to the mission with the bombed dam, on "Recruit" difficulty. I'm finally getting bored... it feels too easy, going in and just shooting terrorists. So I started a new campaign on Elite difficulty.

All I can say is DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN.

Yet now I'm more motivated than ever

[Edmond Dantes]

Hey guys, bumping for new question.

So I recently learned that there was a "Rainbow Six: Collector's Edition" that was basically a compilation of the first two games, plus most of the expansion packs (it doesn't include some of the later Rogue Spear expansions because they came out after this collection).

One of them is called "Covert Ops Essentials" which supposedly has an interview with Tom Clancy and features on real-life tactics... plus three bonus missions, according to Amazon's description.

But there's a stand-alone version, and it says that one has nine missions... but there's no mention of the Tom Clancy interview.

So, someone clear this up for me: is the "Covert Ops Essentials" in the collection exactly the same as the separately-released disc, or are they different? And if they're different, which one is better?

Thanks in advance.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Just remembered that my buddy, in his reunion with PC gaming days (just got a computer after a few years of console gaming), had a soft spot for the original Ghost Recon (already considered obsolete by the lads).
Console versions (the game looked equally antiquated there) seemed well received by the press.
Actually, didn't Ghost Recon look low-tech even for 2001? When I think of good looking FPS of the year, AvsP2 and Serious Sam come to mind. Unreal on monster systems still wasn't really outshined.
According to my pal, Ghost Recon wasn't as solemn as Rainbow Six or SWAT. Looking on a YouTube vid now, I think running made the difference.

[Edmond Dantes]

I need to check out this "Ghost Recon" thing.

Incidentally, I've gotten to Mission 6 (the one with the time-bombed Dam and the informant you have to rescue)

... on Elite.

Yeah, so far I'm finding Elite mode to be just a smidgin more difficult than "Recruit," but at least its forcing me to coordinate more and make smarter use of my units (whereas "Recruit" felt like it was just a mindless shooting game).

Re: my earlier question about Covert Ops Essentials, did some digging on the internet and it sounds like the seperate disc and the one in the Collector's Edition are the same thing.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ha, I haven't played any of the Ghost Recon games either, with one exception. Some of the games are console-exclusive, both Xbox/PS2 or 360 era. GRAW2 is a totally different game in many respects from the PC and console versions (I've played a little bit of the console version).

GRAW2 PC had a neat, but kind of fudged, multiplayer implemented by GRIN, with a fair number of all the modes you wanted - like co-op terrorist hunt, woohoo! - but enemies tended to pop in just inches (literally) before they would notice you, so it was a matter of crawling along and sniping, rather than using any other sorts of tactics. The single-player looked like a mash-up of assets from the console game, with characters sometimes speaking to you in a clear voice, and other times with radio static applied - probably the result of mixing up the flow of the original game's presentation. Still, not a bad game, but the finale was annoying to complete. "You're coming home buddy!" *CUE DRAMATIC SYNTH METAL OVER CREDITS*

The earlier games look much closer to classic Rainbow Six.

[Edmond Dantes]

So I tried to record an LP of Rainbow Six, on Elite mode to make it interesting, but...

Okay, I decided to start over from the first mission. And the first time, I intentionally failed to demonstrate how useless planning was. But then... on my re-attempts, what keeps happening? The terrorists keep shooting the hostages before I even get into the building.

I'm like, "what the fuck? WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?!"

I'm using silenced weapons, and my men are wearing stealth suits. So they couldn't have heard me coming. Is it some AI bug?

Besides, I realized I really don't like the "Webcam" approach and decided to hold off doing any Let's Plays until I could get the proper hardware for it.

... But then I decided to play on "Recruit" difficulty, and I got to that mission where you have to bug the girl's phone. I was warned in advance that this was a stealth mission, so I brought a heartbeat sensor. I got in thru the garage, and then went in the main house thru a door... and MISSION FAILED.

What? WHY? I checked, there was nobody around! So how did I get spotted? How did I fail? Is there a security laser on the door or something? Seriously the game does not tell you how you failed.

I almost gave up, but I decided instead to ask you guys about it. Is there something else I have to avoid, in addition to the guards patrolling the house?

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't remember that one - just the description you've given, and using electronics on the alarm panel in the garage, and also failing a few times, I'm sure. I recalled something like that in a office at some other point in the game (later) - anyway, yeah, make sure you're disabling the alarm system.

[system11]

Black Arrow is where it was at.

[Edmond Dantes]

WTF is Black Arrow?

[system11]

The last revision of the console version of R6 3. It was the cool thing on the original Xbox Live.

[Ed Oscuro]

Iron Wrath and Athena Sword! I hope I still have the Iron Wrath installer file around somewhere; you had to submit a registration to get it.

[Edmond Dantes]

Wasn't there a DVD of Rainbow Six 3 that contained all the expansions, including Iron Wrath?

[BrianC]

Rainbow Six Vegas is going to be free on Games with Gold starting September 16th. How does it compare to others in the series?

[system11]

Not as good, hard to argue for free though.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's certainly better than Vegas 2, though!

[Edmond Dantes]

I picked up an oddball yesterday, a PSOne exclusive entry in this series called Rainbow Six: Lone Wolf.

As its name implies, it's basically like playing the original R6 but trying to accomplish the mission with just one guy (in this case, Ding Chavez).

I'm not far enough into it to have much of an opinion, but I can say that outside of the "lone operative" thing, it stays true to the original's gameplay--especially insofar as "you die, you die, you die, and then you die again."

...

Incidentally, I'm almost done reading the original Tom Clancy novel that (to some degree) spawned the games. And I strongly suspect it's ghostwritten even though it doesn't say so on the cover (as most ghostwritten Clancy books do). I feel that way because the story is cartoonish and unbelievable, the exact opposite of what Tom Clancy is known for. In addition, one character makes a political statement that is at odds with Tom Clancy's own politics. As this is one of those books where the good guys are basically mouthpieces for Clancy's views (a habit all successful authors get into, sadly), this seems kind of strange.

It's an okay book, and would've made a fun four-part episode of G.I. Joe, but it really feels padded at times.

Then again, I've heard that Without Remorse was Clancy's last good book...

[Edmond Dantes]

ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED - Today I beat Rainbow Six! (on Recruit)

So, what should I do next?

A. Beat it on Elite (already six missions in)?

or

B. Tackle the "Eagle Watch" expansion pack?

[Obiwanshinobi]

Anyone played the Wii Ghost Recon? Is the aiming as laggy as Red Steel 2 and Metroid Prime Trilogy, or as responsive as S&P2 and Ghost Squad?