Guwange love & why aren't there many others of its type

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I'm playing Guwange atm and am really enjoying it now I'm using a stick, but one thing that comes to my mind is why the hell did CAVE not make another of it's ilk and that the only other danmaku top down run and gun I can think of is Mamarukun (which I've yet to play) and bugger all else.

Anyway I'm just wondering what others thought about Guwange and the sub genre, and is there any reason why CAVE never made a sequel?

Also what's yourr fave overhead run and gun? I personally like Shock Troopers myself

[shmuppyLove]

Pocky & Rocky!

[BIL]

Elemental Master is pretty great. Customarily hectic, heavy-firepower Tecno Soft action with great use of terrain obstacles and bi-directional firing. Awesome wizard metal soundtrack by Toshiharu Yamanishi!

Gun.Smoke (arcade ver, not FDS/NES) is my favourite shooter of this type. Between the relentlessly pursuing enemies and challenging terrain, it's fucking hell and I love it. Also, old west shooter! Known to make nubs bawl.

Love Shock Troopers and the two SFC Kiki Kaikais, but I don't file them, Out Zone or Senjou no Okami II in the same category personally. There has to be that relentless forward scroll forcing the player into the terrain.

[KAI]

Do you guys remember the next game image on Guwange's OST booklet? I was so hyped about a possible sequel back then.

[Jeneki]

Outzone is great.

Speaking of Shock Troopers, I have played quite a bit of that over the past few months. The villain's silly hair cracks me up every time.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Also what's yourr fave overhead run and gun?

I'm quite fond of the first Pocky & Rocky. Second one, not so much.

Guwange isn't so much a run 'n gun in my mind, though. It automatically scrolls, the shot direction is locked forward (aside from Shikigami)... the only real difference between it and other vertical shmups is that the walls are safe to press up against. It's more like Deathsmiles in that sense, which has a lot of open levels, but a few more crowded levels with safe to touch walls, and happens to be hori instead of vert. The autoscrolling and fixed shot direction makes Guwange feel very different from say Pocky & Rocky or Outzone, where the screen only scrolls as fast as you move, and your movement affects your shooting direction. The scrolling in Guwange is quite slow though compared to other autoscrolling shmups, so I can see why it has a very run 'n gun feel.

I would like to see more games that incorporate Gradius or Deathsmiles-style solid environments that block your shots and enemy shots, but that don't kill you for touching up against them and use much more extravagant Cave style patterns than the more simple, mostly aimed shots you see in Konami shmups like Gradius, Parodius, any number of older shmups with solid walls, etc.

Aurail also looks interesting, bullets seem to get quite dense.

[Mortificator]

Elemental Master's my favorite forced-scrolling walkin' shmup. For top-down run & guns, there are so many I like: Ikari, Heavy Barrel, Mercs, Out Zone, Total Carnage, Pocky & Rocky...

Shock Troopers doesn't appeal to me, though.

[mice]

Haha, like Rob says "give me another to suck at" (I think), but I'm totally with you. I want a sequel too.

Gun.Smoke (arcade ver, not FDS/NES) is my favourite shooter of this type.

Amen.
Actually, best game ever, all categories. Yep.

[Nick420]

The red star. Awesome game

[No_not_like_Quake]

Elemental Master's my favorite forced-scrolling walkin' shmup.

Good choice. I first rented this game in 1990 or 91 from a store called Microplay in Ottawa. They rented out Japanese Megadrive games that had the sides sawed or sheered off so they could fit into a Genesis. It was kind of weird, renting mangled carts.

[BIL]

Also worth mentioning, and definitely worth a try... Guardian Force, by Success for STV/Saturn. Multidirectionally autoscrolling overhead shooter that puts you in a tank with an eight-directional turret. The tank also has a secondary shot locked to fire ahead of it (interestingly, totally independent of the player's movement and turret aiming, it'll always orient itself to the current scrolling direction so you're never without frontal offense). Very much like an autoscrolling version of Konami's Jackal, except with Garegga medalling instead of redeemable bonus POWs.

Guwange isn't so much a run 'n gun in my mind, though. It automatically scrolls, the shot direction is locked forward (aside from Shikigami)... the only real difference between it and other vertical shmups is that the walls are safe to press up against.

Incidentally, Tecno Soft's other vertical shooter Blast Wind is exactly like this (locked forward shot, roaming secondary shot, safe walls) despite going with the more popular aircraft theme. I think they should've gone with a multi-directionally firing humanoid/ground vehicle again, it's very run of the mill compared to EM (still fun though, with the usual high-gloss TS presentation and some satisfyingly violent explosions).

[Obiwanshinobi]

If you really wanna make a (sub-)genre of it, I think Gundhara desereves to be namedropped.
By the way, Guardian Force doesn't just scroll up and right; might be the first 8-directional autoscroller in existence.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Gun.Smoke (arcade ver, not FDS/NES) is my favourite shooter of this type. Between the relentlessly pursuing enemies and challenging terrain, it's fucking hell and I love it. Also, old west shooter! Known to make nubs bawl.

Haha that thread, shame we don't see much of that nowadays as everyone has mellowed out and is nice to each other. He is correct as Gun Smoke is fricking hard though.

Pocky & Rocky!

Speaking of Pocky and Rocky it made me remember that there is a Touhou bullet hell version of it by Gatling Cat called SANAE NO YOUKAI TAIJI SHINAN. Never played it myself so I dunno if its good or not. Rule 9 is in effect (There is a Touhou version of everything)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoaytQRJNSU & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQxIGzVgIpI

There's probably a few similar doujin run 'n guns floating about, including one with Ikaruga's Polarity switching that I can't remember the name of atm.

Do you guys remember the next game image on Guwange's OST booklet? I was so hyped about a possible sequel back then.

What made you think there was a planned sequel? what does that text say?

[BIL]

Haha that thread, shame we don't see much of that nowadays as everyone has mellowed out and is nice to each over.

We must all do our part to return to the glory days!

NO RETREAT. NO REMORSE. KILL OR CURE. BETTER DEAD THAN SCRUB.

He his correct as Gun Smoke is fricking hard though.

Well, he's correct in the sense that Gun.Smoke's enemies will make mincemeat of whiny scrubs. ;3 He's dead wrong about the firing setup, though, having confused the NES version's controls with the AC's. The AC is a three-button game with the middle button a dedicated forward shot and the others angled to the left and right. If he couldn't even get that straight, it's no wonder the enemies ate him alive. Outmaneuvering and outplaying each and every one is the heart of the game, and that means a whole lot of strafing.

He also neglected to mention enemies' bullets are limited in range just like yours, making the game's battling even more personal and vicious since to hit you, they've got to be within range themselves. Unless they've managed to somehow bypass your kill zone and get behind you! Oops, you done fucked up son! Even then, though, you can deftly circle back around them to regain control and not totally screw up the kill this time. Even sneaky bushwhackers that appear from behind are no match for a master maneuverer since you can move so quickly. It ain't TIGER HELI (™ 1985 TOA PLAN/TAITO CORP)

[Ed Oscuro]

Still wishing for a competent take on this (NOT in the arena shooter mold) to be released with the mouse + keyboard combo. Crimson Land had the looks (almost, kind of nasty prerendered 3D stuff if memory serves) but no depth beyond simple survival play mode.

Heavy Barrel is kind of in a different genre, along with TNK III, SAR - Search and Rescue - wow, SNK liked this type of game - and Bloody Wolf, Thunder Zone / Desert Assault, and Gun Ball / Nitroball - Data East liked this genre too. Heated Barrel (similar name to Heavy Barrel, but made by TAD) is kind of like a beltscrolling take on the concept with the narrower playfield that comes with being a beltscroller.

[malchitos]

I'm playing Guwange atm and am really enjoying it now I'm using a stick, but one thing that comes to my mind is why the hell did CAVE not make another of it's ilk and that the only other danmaku top down run and gun I can think of is Mamarukun (which I've yet to play) and bugger all else.

Anyway I'm just wondering what others thought about Guwange and the sub genre, and is there any reason why CAVE never made a sequel?

Also what's yourr fave overhead run and gun? I personally like Shock Troopers myself

I never understood why there was no sequel...it was very much beloved if I remember correctly. Didn't CAVE ask it's fans to vote on what game they wanted ported to the Xbox 360 first and it won?

I really like the 360 mode, where the right stick controls the shikigami.

[Astraea FGA Mk. I]

I love this game too but I can't play the XBOX360 version properly because of this:

The aspect ratio is wrong with the 360 version on my 16:10 monitor :/ It is squashed, as it assumes people are playing with a 16:9 display. Playing tate btw.
I don't suppose anyone here knows if it possible to stretch the screen to compensate? Despite my efforts to figure it out. In the extra window screen config it seems to have the options I need but they are greyed out (Draw area size X, draw area size Y, draw area position x/y)

I resort to MAME but I would prefer to play the 360 version.

[SuperDeadite]

Don't forget:
Undeadline
Twinkle Tale
Aleste Gaiden
Choujin (slightly different genre, but close enough imo)

[Metalsludge]

Chaos Engine on the Amiga comes to mind, though I suppose that was more Gauntletish due to having mazes, albeit with even more emphasis on shooting with no melee.

I enjoyed the gameplay in Guwange. But even though I am normally a horror fan, I was sometimes creeped out by the visuals. That pustule laden giant killer baby was just too much, especially the first time I played the game.

[BIL]

JUMBO HARLEQUIN FETUS ATTACK :O

Guwange is my favourite Japanese folk horror-styled game after Shinrei Jusatsushi Taromaru, where a boss unceremoniously decapitates a toddler to summon its demonic mount (before both get telekinetically eviscerated by ME, the Scanner Ninja >:[ ). The contrasting of vibrant floral colour with 'orrible goings-on is particularly striking.



Shame all we got was more loli trash from CAVE after that cool album art linked above (AK aside). I want blood and fire, not "extremely dark urine!" Should see your GP about that, Windia.

[Ed Oscuro]

Chaos Engine on the Amiga comes to mind, though I suppose that was more Gauntletish due to having mazes, albeit with even more emphasis on shooting with no melee.

Not to mention the attacks are eight-way, free direction. Ark Area is about as close if you want to put it that way. Also, Soldier of Fortune on the SNES is the same thing as Chaos Engine. Need to get back to it sometime, but it didn't stick out too much. Gain Ground and Crack Down are better takes on that kind of game, I think.

[Hal1]

There exists an overhead run 'n' gun bullet hell/danmaku shmup MMO Valkryie Sky. Sadly, its English and Japanese versions (original Korean too?) were shut down.
However, there is one more MMO of this specific genre exists, by the name of Mirror Wars. The game is still active, with Indonesian, Japanese, and English (in chronological order) versions announced this year.
All of these MMOs are made in Korea, and are 3D shmups.

[KAI]

Junya Inoue was so cool when he wasn't a lolicon.

What made you think there was a planned sequel? what does that text say?

Speculation. Cave used to reveal their future projects on their soundtracks.
Someone translated the text a few years ago, but I don't remember what it says.

[Metalsludge]

Chaos Engine on the Amiga comes to mind, though I suppose that was more Gauntletish due to having mazes, albeit with even more emphasis on shooting with no melee.

Not to mention the attacks are eight-way, free direction. Ark Area is about as close if you want to put it that way. Also, Soldier of Fortune on the SNES is the same thing as Chaos Engine. Need to get back to it sometime, but it didn't stick out too much. Gain Ground and Crack Down are better takes on that kind of game, I think.

Oh yeah, Crackdown. The forgotten game, I sometimes think. Some versions of the arcade cabinet had huge screens as I recall. Hotline Miami seemed to borrow a lot from it.

[Edge]

Not really like Guwange, but these two are also pretty cool games.

Fix Eight: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czEAtD-tn1w

Mercs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6ccxUtM0ro

EDIT:
Oh and I definetly second Elemental Master as one of the best games of that kind. It is more like Guwange, in the sense of a "normal shmup", so autoscrolling.

Oh, and then there is also Undead Line, which looks similar to Elemental Master. But I haven't played the game yet, so I don't know how good it is.

[Edge]

Yeah, Guwange's art and game world is pretty inspiring. Joker Jun's artwork is really awesome and Shishin is probably the most badass character design from any shmup. All the recent Cave games make me kinda forget that their game's were actually pretty cool looking before they started to flood their game with lolis.

[OdiousTrident]

Desert Breaker (Sega 1992) had a memorable "dash" mechanic and some solid graphics.

Nitro Ball (Data East 1992) was an attempt at a hybrid run n' gun / pinball game that I think works out OK.

Twinkle Tale is underrated I think. Dino Riki is also good fun.

Little Red Riding Hood's Zombie BBQ should be mentioned too.

[Crafty+Mech]

Gun.Smoke (arcade ver, not FDS/NES) is my favourite shooter of this type. Between the relentlessly pursuing enemies and challenging terrain, it's fucking hell and I love it. Also, old west shooter! Known to make nubs bawl.

Gun.Smoke is Shumpy tough love, and it is awesome That thread you linked to is epic, that guy sure had some issues!

[shmuppyLove]

Nitro Ball (Data East 1992) was an attempt at a hybrid run n' gun / pinball game that I think works out OK.

I have never heard of this game before, it looks ridiculous! And also a lot like Smash TV ...

[KAI]

NINJA COMMANDO!!!

Mash buttons for max power!!