Disparity between East and West game prices

[Skykid]

Someone in Japan or followers of YHJ will need to clarify this.

As an aside to the insane eBay prices thread, it seems like eBay is going into crazy territory in the last couple of years. Mega Drive games are absolutely ridiculous, and SFC is creeping up. We all know sealed game and VGA numpties are doing their own idiotic thing, but general software costs seem to be spiralling into out of reach territory.

I'm curious if this bears any relation to what's happening in Japan. In the past, there's always been some correlation between the two regions, because all the flippers living in Tokyo are exporting the shiz, so if a game in Japan gets more expensive, the eBay flip-for-profit prices follow suit.

But is there really a natural correlation now? Is Mickey's Magical Quest 3 really anywhere near £70 in Japan? Is Undeadline over £120?

Or have all the eBay flippers teamed up to universally raise prices so they universally increase their profits?

Insight appreciated.

[Battlesmurf]

I don't buy a lot of games these days, so I can't really comment on what you're asking other than the theory on what I've seen on the US side of things. I used to scoff at paying $100 for Hagane, and last I looked it's not even funny anymore. I paid $35 for Wild Guns a few years back, recently considered selling it, but changed my mind in the off chance I'd ever want to play it again.

The people who played (Genesis, Super Nintendo) are getting older, getting better jobs, trying to relive their youth, get a piece of nostalgia. New consoles don't offer quite the same experience, are hard to get into if you have been out of the loop for awhile, and in some cases might not be as easy for the human brain to remember fully. (Hum some recent soundtracks- or hum some 16bit stuff?). Exposure is creeping up (Angry Video Game Nerd, Magazines, "Game Journalism"), and the number of gamers out there is an insane number more than when I was growing up with games (late 80's, early 90's), compared to the relatively low number of games produced from back then. Sources everywhere (Japan, US, Eur) are not as plentiful as in days past. There are some collectors- much more so than 10 years ago- completing full sets. The technology to play the older stuff is getting a lot better (clone systems, upscalers, etc). I could go on for days, but I think there is a ton of different reasons (aside from price hikers and the like) that these things are climbing. If a game sells for 50 once, more sellers will start listings closer to that price, etc. Not sure I can say all eBay flippers are working together.

I don't like it, but it might be a smidge tough to pin down a few reasons. Not sure if this helps you in any way, but it's a neat topic to think about.

[Teufel_in_Blau]

Importing got way easier in the last couple of years. Ebay was shit because many sellers didn't wanted to sell to foreigners and most of the good stuff was locked to yahoo auctions japan anyway.

But in the last couple of years many stores in japan started to selling their stuff via amazon for example. I can buy tons of visual novels, pachi-slot or shmups for the PS2 there. Same with saturn games etc. I don't care much for the 16-bit era tbh. What I try to say is that you can buy tons of rare shit without needing a CC or a middle-man just via bank transfer thanks to amazon and that opened up a whole new market.

/e

Just recently I bought Cowboy Bebop and Elemental Gearbolt, both for the PS1, from a Japanese seller via the German amazon site. ALL my 360 shmups I got from amazon too. I see no reason to use play-asia anymore. So, yeah, it got very easy and without any hassle involved to buying cool Japanese games and since many people have an amazon account...

[Ed Oscuro]

There are way more copies of (for example) Gun-Dec and Chelnov than there used to be - actually there used to be droughts when there were none at all, and then only for high prices. There's still copies up at high prices, but at least there's enough of a selection that often you can smash-and-grab the best one before other people notice, if you want. Yeah, I've probably wasted tons of money there. Why would you buy the Japanese-region Chelnov, anyway? Gun-Dec is a must-have just for the best box art of all time - if Sly Stallone had been cast as Deckard in Blade Runner. "Let me tell you something you already know. The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. Also, WHY AREN'T YOU HELPIN THE TURTLE?!"

[Damocles]

People are idiots.

And I'm probably one of them.

I think Battlesmurf pretty much nailed the observation that the people who grew up with them are getting older and now have disposable income. I myself remember all those games that I never had the chance to rent/buy and picking them up now kinda keeps those days going.

Regarding Undeadline prices: Piss all over that. I bought my first MD copy from PaCrappa for $30 on these here forums. As much as I love the series, the MD rev. is nowhere near that rare. You might as well pick up the MSX rev. for that price. Some sellers on Y!J tried to get those high prices, but I don't think I ever saw them sell.

[drauch]

Do you really think people out there are getting nostalgic with Wild Guns and Hagane?

I think it's got to do with the popularity boost thanks to YouTube and the plethora of channels on there. People eat up Gamester81, PeterDorr, Happy Console Gamer, AVGN, etc., as well as all those "Let's Play" and collection videos. There is so much retro revival crap everywhere in the world of video games, be it all the HD updates or the PSN/Xbox Arcade/Wii market, and it's just getting more and more popular. Nostalgia might play a decent part, especially with all these blokes with infinite money, but I find it hard to be nostalgic with Sutte Hakkun and Majyuuou.

[Skykid]

I don't buy a lot of games these days, so I can't really comment on what you're asking other than the theory on what I've seen on the US side of things. I used to scoff at paying $100 for Hagane, and last I looked it's not even funny anymore. I paid $35 for Wild Guns a few years back, recently considered selling it, but changed my mind in the off chance I'd ever want to play it again.

The people who played (Genesis, Super Nintendo) are getting older, getting better jobs, trying to relive their youth, get a piece of nostalgia. New consoles don't offer quite the same experience, are hard to get into if you have been out of the loop for awhile, and in some cases might not be as easy for the human brain to remember fully. (Hum some recent soundtracks- or hum some 16bit stuff?). Exposure is creeping up (Angry Video Game Nerd, Magazines, "Game Journalism"), and the number of gamers out there is an insane number more than when I was growing up with games (late 80's, early 90's), compared to the relatively low number of games produced from back then. Sources everywhere (Japan, US, Eur) are not as plentiful as in days past. There are some collectors- much more so than 10 years ago- completing full sets. The technology to play the older stuff is getting a lot better (clone systems, upscalers, etc). I could go on for days, but I think there is a ton of different reasons (aside from price hikers and the like) that these things are climbing. If a game sells for 50 once, more sellers will start listings closer to that price, etc. Not sure I can say all eBay flippers are working together.

I don't like it, but it might be a smidge tough to pin down a few reasons. Not sure if this helps you in any way, but it's a neat topic to think about.

Good post, and yes, absolutely. I totally understand the desirability of classic games have risen as younger generations have come into greater spending power, I'm just not sure whether eBay, which is the dominant sales domain for classic games in the West, is contiguous with inflating prices on YHJ or Akiba (taking into account obvious profit margins, of course.)

People are idiots.

You'll never see me arguing that one.

Regarding Undeadline prices: Piss all over that. I bought my first MD copy from PaCrappa for $30 on these here forums. As much as I love the series, the MD rev. is nowhere near that rare. You might as well pick up the MSX rev. for that price. Some sellers on Y!J tried to get those high prices, but I don't think I ever saw them sell.

Well that's what I'm talking about. It's hard for me to make a list off the top of my head, but MD is a good place to see games that went from expensive to stratospheric almost overnight. My Gleylancer cost about £60 a few years back, from eBay no less (BIN), and now it's £150 - £200.

And Pulseman. Hold the phone on this one. I bought from YHJ about 3 years ago BIN £35 approx. in like new condition. I notice it starts to rise on eBay and note it on this forum. It went to £80, £150, and now £300 (!!!!) in about a year.

On one hand, it's always positive to see stuff you have increase in value, but on the other, I'm not done yet. There are still titles I want, and this hyper inflation is nonsensical.

So although I understand increased interest in the market (a good thing) I don't know if eBay is being influenced by Japan. I need someone who knows Japan well to indicate whether or not this is simply eBay flippers going out on a universal limb.

Do you really think people out there are getting nostalgic with Wild Guns and Hagane?
I think it's got to do with the popularity boost thanks to YouTube and the plethora of channels on there. People eat up Gamester81, PeterDorr, Happy Console Gamer, AVGN, etc., as well as all those "Let's Play" and collection videos.

Thing about those guys (taking AVGN out of the equation, because he's actually entertaining) they don't really own much of any real value or desirability. Gamenob81 and PeteWhore just have bucketloads of shovelware - I don't see Undeadline or Majyuuou featured in their collections - yet those are the Japanese titles that are spiking like a half Oz of heroin.

[nem]

This is one of those thinly veiled penis waving threads again, isn't it?

On one hand, it's always positive to see stuff you have increase in value

Why is that?

[Skykid]

This is one of those thinly veiled penis waving threads again, isn't it?

No, it's a discussion on the disparity between rising East and West game prices and whether they're contiguous between two distinct regions. Broke motherfuckers have been known to identify such discourse as thinly veiled penis waving threads though.

On one hand, it's always positive to see stuff you have increase in value

Why is that?

Why wouldn't it be?

Anyone who actually wants to contribute to the discussion feel free. I'm hoping someone who lives in/deals with Japan can shed a little more insight on the question.

[evil_ash_xero]

I'm still ill at the thought of buying Magical Pop'n. The price is bonkers.

[NTSC-J]

I don't shop for games in Japan as much as I used to, but older stuff does seem to be slightly more expensive overall. In other words, either prices are still about the same as they've been for years (Radiant Silvergun) or a bit higher (Time Gal and Ninja Hayate for PS1 seems to have doubled in value since I bought it five years ago). YAJ and used goods stores like Book Off seem to be the only places where there are any good deals.

However, the big boom seems to be more Western release stuff because that's what people are getting nostalgic on. Earthbound and other SNES RPGs are all pretty crazy now. Even Super Mario Bros cart-only, which used to cost a song at Funcoland, goes for $5-10 on ebay.

And just based on what I've seen in more mainstream message boards (like 4chan's /vr board), there are a lot of kids just getting into "old" games (which includes the Dreamcast, somehow) who use cragslist, thrift stores and garage sales who have no clue about any of this stuff and are willing to pay outrageous prices. The haul threads are particularly amusing/frightening: poster says "Paid $50 for everything here. Did I do good?" with a photo of a yellow SNES, a copy of Tomb Raider with a giant PREVIOUSLY OWNED sticker from Hollywood Video on it, and a cart of Spider Man: Maximum Carnage that says "Danny" in black sharpie.

[Skykid]

And just based on what I've seen in more mainstream message boards (like 4chan's /vr board), there are a lot of kids just getting into "old" games (which includes the Dreamcast, somehow) who use cragslist, thrift stores and garage sales who have no clue about any of this stuff and are willing to pay outrageous prices. The haul threads are particularly amusing/frightening: poster says "Paid $50 for everything here. Did I do good?" with a photo of a yellow SNES, a copy of Tomb Raider with a giant PREVIOUSLY OWNED sticker from Hollywood Video on it, and a cart of Spider Man: Maximum Carnage that says "Danny" in black sharpie.

Well that would explain escalation to some degree, since if people are willing to pay outrageous prices then they become the standard.

When I was in Japan last, Akiba prices sucked in comparison to what they were on the previous visit - but they didn't suck compared to eBay prices, although there were some anomalies that I admittedly couldn't fathom.

I'm still ill at the thought of buying Magical Pop'n. The price is bonkers.

Dunno what it goes for, but there's a loose cart for £150 on eBay currently, so I can guess the rest.

But what does it go for on YHJ?

[andsuchisdeath]

Right. We are all aware of the western retro game craze these days. SNES prices online now are the most obvious example. But I believe the question is, are these Ebay/Amazon prices for imports out of Japan artificially inflated solely within the ebay realm? Is this a true reflection of the value or scarcity increase of certain titles in Japan, and if so to what degree?

[Skykid]

But I believe the question is, are these Ebay/Amazon prices for imports out of Japan artificially inflated solely within the ebay realm? Is this a true reflection of the value or scarcity increase of certain titles in Japan, and if so to what degree?

Um... that is the question (that's what I've been asking since the OP!)

I'm trying to get some folk Japan-sides to shed some light on it to find out whether or not it's an eBay contained thing. 16-Bit seems the most affected in terms of recent ridiculousness, the other gen's are similar but probably not to quite the same degree.

[andsuchisdeath]

But I believe the question is, are these Ebay/Amazon prices for imports out of Japan artificially inflated solely within the ebay realm? Is this a true reflection of the value or scarcity increase of certain titles in Japan, and if so to what degree?

Um... that is the question (that's what I've been asking since the OP!)

I'm trying to get some folk Japan-sides to shed some light on it to find out whether or not it's an eBay contained thing. 16-Bit seems the most affected in terms of recent ridiculousness, the other gen's are similar but probably not to quite the same degree.

Right. And my point is no one has really answered your question.

[Skykid]

^ Yeah I know.

Maybe NTSC-J knows about the going rate for the following in Japan?

Magical Pop'N
Pulseman
Undeadline
Majyuuou
Gleylancer

Any ideas?

[Zerst]

I concur with NTSC-J... it's not really young people with disposable income:

It's more an extension of what he brought up a few posts ago; a lot of kids in their mid to late teens and very early twenties are becoming interested in these games. The speedrunning community and the popularity of things such as speedrunslive and the SDA marathons on twitch.tv have been having a MAJOR impact on how much people want to play NES and SNES and Genesis games on their original hardware (There are a couple of distinct cases where games that were featured at an SDA marathon went to 2-4 times their market price within a few months afterwards).

In addition to the increased demand, as he also mentioned, these younger players don't care or aren't involved in what the game costs. They ask their parents for a copy of SNES Harvest Moon for birthday/holiday gift and they get it, even if the parents pay twice the market value to buy the first available copy they see. (This is a personal anecdote, a friend of mine a few years younger than me wanted a copy of it, and her parents just went out and bought it from a used game store, where it was selling for $80, compared to the ~$50 it was going for at the time. Of course, nowadays $80 is awesome for the game, but that's besides the point.)

This has the result of flat-buy prices increasing, as sellers (especially at brick and mortar stores) bank on the fact that if they list a worn out copy of super metroid for $50, SOMEBODY will eventually come and blindly buy it, and because of the somewhat circular way the market balances itself, suddenly one or two inflated sales means that's suddenly the new market value, so the highball prices increase again and the process repeats.

[nem]

Why wouldn't it be?

Because I don't buy to sell. Also, I don't enjoy a certain game more because it's considered rare and valuable.

The speedrunning community and the popularity of things such as speedrunslive and the SDA marathons on twitch.tv have been having a MAJOR impact on how much people want to play NES and SNES and Genesis games on their original hardware

Haha, no.

[Skykid]

Why wouldn't it be?

Because I don't buy to sell. Also, I don't enjoy a certain game more because it's considered rare and valuable.

Neither do I on both counts, but it's still nice to have something you own appreciate in value. People can fall on hard times, lose interest, require urgent funds, such is life. Capital is capital any way you look at it.

I don't really need to spell this out for you, you know it already. You're just fucking up a perfectly reasonable discussion unnecessarily.

[R79]

Collecting to play this sub-genre was always an expensive hobby, and always will be.

From a UK perspective, the market for import games on eBay has never recovered from the surge in the dollar around 7-8 years ago now. I still keep screencaps of some of those listings. Mint with spine Batsugun for £35 anyone? Not anymore...

[ACSeraph]

^ Yeah I know.

Maybe NTSC-J knows about the going rate for the following in Japan?

Magical Pop'N
Pulseman
Undeadline
Majyuuou
Gleylancer

Any ideas?

Amazon Japan's prices are usually pretty standard here. Definitely cheaper than Akihabara. Just a quick search for the games in question yielded this:

Magical Pop'N - 11,556 yen, in supposedly good condition. Only 2 available and the other one is over 40,000.
Pulseman - unavailable
Undeadline - 8,000 yen, 2 available, cart only.
Majyuuou - 7,979 yen, 6 available, cart only.
Gleylancer - 19,960 yen, 2 available, complete.

Granted though I've never looked for these specific games in Akiba. Occasionally in used goods stores like Mansaido you can run into rare stuff and catch really good deals that are cheaper than Amazon. I happened to find a copy of Langrisser Tribute on a day they were doing an all retro games half off sale and got it for like $20, but those kinds of finds are definitely not the norm.

[nem]

I don't really need to spell this out for you, you know it already. You're just fucking up a perfectly reasonable discussion unnecessarily.

What discussion?

No, the prices aren't as high as eBay. Yes, they're higher than what they were a few years ago.

Posting buy it now auctions on eBay (this will never sell for £300) and for sale adverts on Amazon (likewise for 41k) is not telling anything meaningful.

Undeadline is the only of those five that is currently available on YJ as an auction. Starting price 8000 yen. We'll see if it goes or not.

[Skykid]

Amazon Japan's prices are usually pretty standard here. Definitely cheaper than Akihabara. Just a quick search for the games in question yielded this

Thanks for those, just put them through XE:

Magical Pop'N - 11,556 yen, in supposedly good condition. / £75 GBP... versus the £150 for the loose one on eBay.
Pulseman - unavailable
Undeadline - 8,000 yen, 2 available, cart only / £52 - this one's weird. Seems very high for a loose cart. Maybe it has risen.
Majyuuou - 7,979 yen, 6 available, cart only. / £51 - I think this game is about £90 ish on YHJ CIB.
Gleylancer - 19,960 yen, 2 available, complete. £131 - I'm surprised. That means eBay flippers are only making around £20/£30 profit.

Bit up and down to be honest. Seems a bit of both: games that have genuinely increased in Japan versus others where eBayers are just artificially inflating the value as they choose. Appreciate the feedback, thanks for taking the time to scout those.

What discussion?

There isn't one. Stop posting.

[dcharlie]

Rough and off the top of my head from Aki based on -at least- boxed and in good condition :

Magical Pop'N - 9800 yen
Pulseman - no idea
Undeadline - 8,800 yen
Majyuuou - 12,800 yen <--- on the way down
Gleylancer - 17,800 yen

Amazon Japan's prices are usually pretty standard here. Definitely cheaper than Akihabara

At the start of this year i'd have agreed with this but recently it's just going the way of the US Amazon where the prices are massively over in most cases.

I'll have a spot check in Aki over the next few days - will report back.

[Skykid]

Thanks matey, useful!

I'm starting to get the feeling that eBay sellers are simply running riot and forcing everything up to meet the demand of the groups NTSC-J outlined, but there is a little escalation Japan side too. I don't think they're working in parallel though. eBay's gone completely stupid in the last three years.

[Rob]

Gamenob81 and PeteWhore

Noticed in some other thread, too - what's with this seriously grade school level naming business? Looks really pathetic.

eBay's gone completely stupid in the last three years.

No insertion fee, endless relisting, hilarious greed/wishing upon stars.

[cools]

Ebay fees are utterly mental nowadays. It costs next to nothing to list, but you're charged an insane amount if an item actually sells and you accept PayPal. That Pulseman auction (if it sells) would cost a normal person £40 in fees.

I've tried playing fair on there but it's completely pointless to even try anymore - it's not a market for private sellers whatsoever so you may as well list high BINs and keep using the free relists to keep the items there until they sell. Due to the fees auction formats are simply not worth considering anymore.

[Skykid]

Noticed in some other thread, too - what's with this seriously grade school level naming business? Looks really pathetic.

Welcome to the forum.

Ebay fees are utterly mental nowadays. It costs next to nothing to list, but you're charged an insane amount if an item actually sells and you accept PayPal. That Pulseman auction (if it sells) would cost a normal person £40 in fees.

Yeah, the flat 10% is unreal, but the sellers are aware of the fees when they set up their listings. I suppose you can always expect some increase in-line with fee rises, but then it seems like somewhere along the way everyone just decided videogames were the best market to do a universal hike on - some unspoken masonic pledge.

[ACSeraph]

Rough and off the top of my head from Aki based on -at least- boxed and in good condition :

Magical Pop'N - 9800 yen
Pulseman - no idea
Undeadline - 8,800 yen
Majyuuou - 12,800 yen <--- on the way down
Gleylancer - 17,800 yen

Amazon Japan's prices are usually pretty standard here. Definitely cheaper than Akihabara

At the start of this year i'd have agreed with this but recently it's just going the way of the US Amazon where the prices are massively over in most cases.

I'll have a spot check in Aki over the next few days - will report back.

Now that you mention it when I was in Akiba last week Trader had a lot of things I was looking for for a bit cheaper than Amazon, which never used to be the case. But I really have no idea about this ultra rare stuff since I'm not in the market for it. It will be interesting to see what you find on these titles.

[gabe]

Ebay fees are utterly mental nowadays. It costs next to nothing to list, but you're charged an insane amount if an item actually sells and you accept PayPal. That Pulseman auction (if it sells) would cost a normal person £40 in fees.

I've tried playing fair on there but it's completely pointless to even try anymore - it's not a market for private sellers whatsoever so you may as well list high BINs and keep using the free relists to keep the items there until they sell. Due to the fees auction formats are simply not worth considering anymore.

I was waiting for someone to mention this. I think it's a contributing factor.

Another idea I'd like to introduce to this discussion... We're in the midst of a video game bubble. And it will burst. A lot of games commanding high prices right now are not actually that rare. Truly rare items are not available from dozens of different sellers at any given time. Eventually the folks keeping prices high for 90's era games will lose interest with the hobby. The generation coming up behind them will be less interested, all the while, digital distribution will continue to make games (from all eras) even more accessible. A core will remain, but it won't be enough to maintain the artificially high prices.

My Father's generation grew up collecting baseball cards and comic books in the 50's and 60's. Around the 1980's when his generation was gaining some expendable income, prices for these items skyrocketed. By the mid 90's, both markets had crashed. Google it. The similarities to the game collecting market are shocking.