Keep your 256 onscreen colors !!!

[Ed Oscuro]

MD version is batting way above average with sample use, but still not a patch on the SNES version. Samples sound more detailed (notably more high frequencies) on the SNES version, and compare also around the 0:38 mark of both versions. Still, both are nice, and the Genesis title screen is nicer. Still, Genesis version sounds closer to arcade, and the SNES version's title screen is closer to the arcade.

[louisg]

Even the great MD stuff typically is immediately recognizable as coming from that system. You can't really say the same for Plok on SNES.

I don't think that's quite true. Genesis is recognizable as FM, but something like the TF4 music could've come from a couple different systems, just as Plok could've come from any sample-based system that has interpolation. Each technique has some big plusses and some big negatives, though obviously samples have a big advantage in imitating 'real' instruments.

BTW that Time Trax tune is pretty tinny to be honest. I think Follin was generally better at sample-based synthesis.

[ED-057]

The best SNES music is better than the best Genesis music

I disagree. It seems like even the good SNES tracks suffer noticably from technical limitations. Meanwhile the Genesis has both great tracks and ones that sound like a war between cats and vacuum cleaners, sometimes within the same game.

[Ed Oscuro]

"Tinny" is a really strange way to describe the Time Trax music. Yeah, it does have a lot of high frequencies...I can't fault the music for that because I have something better to listen to it with than $20 headphones/speakers. It sounds perfectly fine. I only get a bit of distortion in the "Music 01" track when the church bells in the right channel play with low pitch, and that's a playback issue anyway. Some of the small bells (telephone! telephone!) seem pressed a bit too high up but there's no distortion. The one thing that seems rather out of place is the bell-like effect that ranges back and forth from channel to channel. There's plenty of good stuff in here though, and some signature Follins-like flutes. Of course, all these problems are with the samples used in the game soundtrack; there's not much in the soundtrack that sounds bad from the regular synthesis, especially when played at the slower rate of speed.

You guys had better give some examples or I am just gonna laugh.

Direct comparisons would be nice but often they're silly because of the importance of the artist recognizing each system's character, as Konami did for the notably different mixes of the Turtles music for the versions compared above. If one system falls behind the other there, it's probably because the designer was a bit more comfortable or had better ideas for one system than for the other - and of course both soundtracks are based on arcade music which is closer to each system in small parts.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

I've got a comparison for you.

Batman Returns OST Lair (Part 1)

Batman Returns SNES OST - Scene 1-1

Nintendo is what Genesisn't

[railslave]

wow very nice comparison ... nice crisp instruments on the sgea (though mine NEVER sounded that good)


and the snes, well , kind of of one trick pony , the same token orchestra hits..


megadrive definately has this one ...wipes the floor with the snes



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLOPRdxgqAI





yes please

[Specineff]

I've got a comparison for you.

Batman Returns OST Lair (Part 1)

Batman Returns SNES OST - Scene 1-1

Nintendo is what Genesisn't

Can they do anything on the SNES without resorting to that &%$#@! reverb to mask the "boxy", "plastic-y" sound?

The SNES may use samples which allow for realistic sound, but the lower sample rate and filtering ends up crap-ifying it in the end.

The Genesis may reach up to 44.1 Khz (not sure about this), but it won't sound too hot with crappy drivers and default instruments.

Can we please just enjoy the music? I was a Sega fanboy all this time, and can appreciate stuff on the SNES like Scrambled Valkyrie's brilliant soundtrack.

[Ed Oscuro]

lower sample rate

I can't find any direct information on this, but SNES' sample rate is 32 kHz at 16 bit, for the whole chip; 8-bit on the Yamaha chip in the Mega Drive.

[louisg]

lower sample rate

I can't find any direct information on this, but SNES' sample rate is 32 kHz at 16 bit, for the whole chip; 8-bit on the Yamaha chip in the Mega Drive.

If the OPN2 is like other Yamaha chips, it's probably in the neighborhood of 49khz. But you need a higher sampling rate for that kind of synthesis than sample-based because of aliasing. FM will generate uncontrollable aliased frequencies, where those can be avoided with sampling. 32khz is really good for that time for that.

Re: Time Trax: The title theme is really nice and I have shown it to people to show off the Genesis' sound, but strangely in this video it doesn't sound nearly as good as it did in the older video of it. It could just be down to a bad emulation.

But anyway, here's my critique just going off that video:

There's quite a bit of FM clanginess there, but it does vary a lot. I really would go for something like the Sonic 1 soundtrack or SOR over this. It's not *bad*... it's head and shoulders over some other Genesis music, especially western Genesis music (like X-Men or Pitfall), but I don't think the patch design is up there with the best. Like he has some really harsh clangy "way too FMmy" tones he uses for example at 14:00, 28:40, etc. Some of the sweeps are supposed to be "big loud sweeps" but aren't very thick, too. I am not sure there's any detuning on those patches. The "lead guitar" tones are over-FM'd and harsh (modulator set too high), kind of like Hard Drivin'. But again, maybe that's emulation and on the real system it fuzzed nicely.

I am listening on KRK Rokit 5s.

But one thing about FM is that if you're trying to use it like an analog synth, it'll always be disappointing. It's really good at pseudoreal sounds.. plucky sounds with sharp attacks, etc. But trying to use it like a subtractive synth was the reason a lot of people were disappointed with FM in general.

Someone here said something about bad patches with the TL value too high. I think that's dead on-- that was rampant.

BTW I'm not rooting for any specific chip here. Both Genesis and SNES had their own strengths and weaknesses.

[kid aphex]

The Amiga had 32 colors and a lot of those visuals smoke the Genesis

http://francksauer.com/index.php/games/ ... s/10-agony ... daaaaaaaaaaamn (scroll down for the making-of)

Great link, thanks for sharing.

[BrianC]

Atari Lynx did some neat things with only 16 colors on screen.

[null1024]

Can they do anything on the SNES without resorting to that &%$#@! reverb to mask the "boxy", "plastic-y" sound?

The worst thing about SNES reverb is that it uses the 64k sound RAM, meaning that the samples in memory would need to be even lower quality to fit.

One could use multi-channel echo instead of hardware reverb, which does sound better and would use less sound ram, but you lose however many channels you dedicate to echo.


Also, those Amiga visuals are a stunner.

You know, the Game Gear system palette is larger than the Genesis' [4096 vs 512 colors], and could have games that looked nicer. You still have Master System sprite and background color amount restrictions, but the extra available colors to select can make all the difference.

Atari Lynx did some neat things with only 16 colors on screen.

STUN Runner getting a Lynx port is one of those things that never fails to blow my mind. The Lynx is really damn impressive.