Thunder Force III region diffs + Tecno Soft miscs

[BIL]

But there are quite a few extra enemies in the Saturn AC version and they seem slightly more resilient perhaps...

Definitely sounds like another overseas difficulty reduction - TFGP2's port of Thunder Force AC is based on the domestic Japanese version. I've never tried the international version but it's said more than once on this forum to be easier.

It's so weird that TFAC lacks autofire, considering it's such a hallmark of the console games' intense yet user-friendly style. Tapping to fire Sever, ugh. That alone makes me consider TFGP2's autofire-equipped version the definitive one. TF is all about unleashing the badass face-melting arsenal!

It's kind of a shame that Tecno Soft didn't use TFGP1 to port the X68000 version of Thunder Force II. Smoothed-out, Styx-equipped TFIV alone makes TFGP2 worth owning, not to mention the excellent (and only) port of TFAC*. TFGP1 is pretty much pointless outside of completism if you have TFII and TFIII on the MD.

*it's so cool how the spinecard of TFGP2 has the expected screenshot of TFIV, but a photograph of TFAC's PCB. Hyper Duel SS's cover background is the game's JAMMA board, too. And both HDSS and Blast Wind's Options menus are labelled "DIP Settings" with accompanying switch graphics. <333 this company.

[louisg]

TF3 really is a masterpiece. I revisited it after not having played it for a few years, and it felt really fresh. On 'hard', sure, it's still not too hard, but I was riveted the whole way.

[moonwhistle]

Way off topic but Hellfire (any region) played on a Megadrive 2 console has it's superb music slowed to a crawl. It took me quite a bit of trial and error to work that out as I initially thought it was 50-60hz issue. Another reason to avoid Megadrive 2 / Genesis 2 consoles.

[BIL]

TF3 really is a masterpiece. I revisited it after not having played it for a few years, and it felt really fresh. On 'hard', sure, it's still not too hard, but I was riveted the whole way.

I think this is the quality that makes Tecno Soft's shooters so enjoyable. They tend to hand the player dominating firepower, then proceed to deploy enemies, obstacles and environmental hazards so rapidly and from so many angles that, even if control is never contested as viciously as in harder shooters, maintaining it is still a huge rush. This in addition to their airtight control, rich pixel art and rocking soundtracks.

I'd say Elemental Master exemplifies this even moreso than TFIII. Frantic yet emphatically destructive-feeling game on Mania, every time. Blast Wind and Thunder Force V are the weaker shooters of their MD/SS catalogue largely for being lower on this scrambling pace.

Way off topic but Hellfire (any region) played on a Megadrive 2 console has it's superb music slowed to a crawl. It took me quite a bit of trial and error to work that out as I initially thought it was 50-60hz issue. Another reason to avoid Megadrive 2 / Genesis 2 consoles.

Good info - this stuff is always useful to know.

Spent this evening playing TFAC. It's interesting how TFIII Mania corresponds to AC's Very Hard. In TFAC, Gargoyle never gets the secondary bullet spread that makes it a much more credible boss, and you still get Sever, so it's always a pushover. On the other hand, King Fish gets its adjusted Mania pattern that makes attacking head-on more difficult. And even though there's way more enemies and bullets per stage, you still only lose the CRAW and currently-equipped weapon upon dying. I prefer this - there's more a sense of struggling to regain momentum at the risk of losing even more power, where dying on TFIII Mania is just annoying and immediately puts you into survival mode.

The slightly weaker music aside, I think this game with autofire on, extends off and difficulty on Very Hard might be the best iteration of TFIII. Losing Hades is a downer but the new "ruined base" stage is excellent on VH, with turrets galore and frequent pincer sniper bullets flying back and forth across the screen. The TFII stage is easily more involving than TFIII's weak Ellis. Ideally I'd have liked AC to keep Hades while dropping Ellis and Cerberus, but at least the latter is short and has its standout BGM. Orn Base on VH is nearly what TFIII's Mania version should've been, much more frontal offense even if it's still not quite the gauntlet it should be. Just like King Fish, the boss gets its Mania upgrade - no telegraphed block shifting, much more intense.

[BrianC]

It's kind of a shame that Tecno Soft didn't use TFGP1 to port the X68000 version of Thunder Force II. Smoothed-out, Styx-equipped TFIV alone makes TFGP2 worth owning, not to mention the excellent (and only) port of TFAC*.

Wasn't Thunder Spirits based on AC, as well? From what I heard about that version, there is no way ot touches the Saturn port, though.

[BIL]

Thunder Spirits is a really weak SFC version of Thunder Force AC, yep. I can't call it a port in the same sense as TFGP2's near-perfect conversion straight from the PCB. Besides Spirits changing some of the later stages and having generally downgraded audiovisuals, it's loaded with slowdown. It wasn't developed by Tecno Soft as far as I know, and it shows - the MD original completely shames it.

It does have one thing going for it, a replacement of "His Behaviour Inspired Us With Distrust" (Cerberus BGM) which, against all odds, is really good. Nails that plaintive, driving sound.

[BrianC]

Thunder Spirits is a really weak SFC version of Thunder Force AC, yep. I can't call it a port in the same sense as TFGP2's near-perfect conversion straight from the PCB. Besides Spirits changing some of the later stages and having downgraded audiovisuals, it's loaded with slowdown. It wasn't developed by Tecno Soft as far as I know, and it shows.

I have to check to see if they are the developer, but Toshiba EMI is on the title screen. Weren't they responsible fore some weak x68000 ports?

edit: nm. I think I confused Toshiba EMI with someone else. They did do that odd Back to the Future game for SFC, though.

[BIL]

I don't really know their output, but yeah, Toshiba-EMI and Seika are credited. Tecno Soft is only listed as the licensor, doubt they had much involvement besides accepting the license fee. Funny that TFAC is a Sega-published game...

If anyone, considering the technical hurdles, it would've been cool to see Compile try their hand at a SFC Thunder Force. Super Aleste rivals TFIII in both its speed and graphical effects. But then they were primarily a vert house... maybe a TF1-style all-overhead game?

edit: haha, just went to cross-check MAME with TFGP2... it's been a while. Turns out TFAC Saturn is more like Thunder Force AC Director's Cut. Max difficulty is called "Mania" as usual, and Gargoyle gets its bullet spread (though it's still cut down in no time by Sever). Wonder what else is in store. Unfortunately you can't disable score extends, at least I don't think so. On the plus side there's absolutely no slowdown even at Gorgon's craziest points, it blazes along no matter how many CRAW Sever beams, exploding firebirds and leaping podoboos are onscreen simultaneously. As per usual for Tecno Soft's GP series. Weapon loss is still limited to CRAW+currently equipped - cool.

[louisg]

It's kind of a shame that Tecno Soft didn't use TFGP1 to port the X68000 version of Thunder Force II. Smoothed-out, Styx-equipped TFIV alone makes TFGP2 worth owning, not to mention the excellent (and only) port of TFAC*.

Wasn't Thunder Spirits based on AC, as well? From what I heard about that version, there is no way ot touches the Saturn port, though.

Avoid Thunder Spirits. That's the one where they disable autofire by default because switching it on causes slowdown damn near 100% of the time

Man I'd really like to have the Saturn discs.

BIL, you mentioned Elemental Master. Such an overlooked gem of a game! I still need to beat it sometime. I've played it a lot, but I end up switching it off at the boss rush. Yeah, I'm not super great at it

[Spyke]

Er... TFIIIAC on TFGP2 does have autofire built in. And mine's Japanese. wasnt aware it came for other regions than Jp?

[BrianC]

Thunder Force Gold Pack II sounds like the better of the discs since it offers a Thunder Force IV minus slowdown and Thunder Force AC. The other pack doesn't seem to offer anything over the Genesis/MD versions.

[BIL]

Er... TFIIIAC on TFGP2 does have autofire built in. And mine's Japanese. wasnt aware it came for other regions than Jp?

Both of the Saturn Thunder Force Gold Packs are indeed Japan-exclusive.

I don't think anyone said Gold Pack 2's port of Thunder Force AC lacks autofire (lots of acronyms flying around!). Like I said a few posts up, its addition of software autofire makes me consider it essential, after the arcade version's irritating lack of it.

[Spyke]

My bad. didn't realise you meant original arcade not AC version.
Ant

[Obiwanshinobi]

The other pack doesn't seem to offer anything over the Genesis/MD versions.

RGB colour if you are into that.

[BIL]

Here is a buyer's guide to Thunder Force Gold Pack 1 & 2. I used to own both but let the first go when I got into the MD, because TFIIMD and TFIII are ch£ap as teh chip$ even in CIB OCD condition.

TFGP1:

+ Saves a few inches/grams of storage if your house is collapsing under the weight of your game library, causing subsidence and jeopardising its resale value.

- Crummy streaming BGM sounds worse than MD versions and loops inappropriately.
- No exclusive goodies.

TFGP2:

+ Exclusive blazing fast, silky smooth Thunder Force IV with bonus ship FIRE LEO-03 Codename "STYX" from TFIII. It lacks the Thunder Sword of FIRE LEO-04 Codename "RYNEX," but still owns your motherfucking face with SEVER. Or "Saber" as it's renamed here.
+ Exclusive port of Thunder Force AC with native autofire support, no more cursing the gods while tapping away in futility / messing with hardware AF solutions. Get the REAL THUNDERFORCE FEEL
+ No streaming BGM, both games' music sounds great and loops properly.
+ Saves a few inches/grams of storage if your house is collapsing under the weight of your game library, causing subsidence and jeopardising its resale value.

- TFIV's sound effects are a bit weak, but
+ They're not too great on MD to begin with and the MD's music bogs down frequently so it actually sounds worse overall.

I say go with TFGP2! And put that TFGP1 cash towards Hyper Duel SS

[louisg]

Instead of working trying to figure out how to patch this rom so it always comes up in Japan region, I've been playing Thunder Force III on Mania difficulty. What an awesome game. I guess my next Top 25 list will be revised accordingly

[To Far Away Times]

Quite simply, one of the best games ever made, in any genre.

[Skykid]

BIL, you mentioned Elemental Master. Such an overlooked gem of a game! I still need to beat it sometime. I've played it a lot, but I end up switching it off at the boss rush. Yeah, I'm not super great at it

It's super super easy. Put in another effort and you'll be surprised. I got given the game as an xmas gift in 2011 and loved every second, but I got the clear in about four credit attempts. I would definitely recommend playing on hard to get the most out of it. Fantastic game.

[BIL]

Elemental Master's game balance is paradigmatic Tecno Soft. Massive player firepower, dense and hectic stage designs with danger from all sides, a potentially tough challenge offset by that crushing arsenal and lots of margin for error. That's how their best shooters manage to be easier than other first-raters but never boring. I put off getting EM for a long time, having cleared Mania in emulation too quickly for my liking. But I eventually realised that even if I can pretty much guarantee a clear every time, it'll never fail to be a total frenzy of terrain manuvering, charge-shotting and bi-directional firing, earning it a place in my collection.

Also, even moreso than usual with TS, the soundtrack.

>GREAT SPIRIT OVERTURE (Title)
>CURSED DESTINY (Opening Demo)
>BLOODSTAINED LAKE (Stage 4)
>TERROR OF THE GLACIER (Stage 5)
>SORROWFUL REQUIEM (Ending)
>SETTING OUT (Staff Roll)

[Skykid]

Also Elemental Master is stupid cheap.

[louisg]

BIL, you mentioned Elemental Master. Such an overlooked gem of a game! I still need to beat it sometime. I've played it a lot, but I end up switching it off at the boss rush. Yeah, I'm not super great at it

It's super super easy. Put in another effort and you'll be surprised. I got given the game as an xmas gift in 2011 and loved every second, but I got the clear in about four credit attempts. I would definitely recommend playing on hard to get the most out of it. Fantastic game.

Ahh I've logged a lot of time on it. I got it back when I was in college and couldn't put it down. But yeah, finishing it off needs to happen for sure.

[BrianC]

Also Elemental Master is stupid cheap.

Not as cheap as it used to be. I defnitely plan to pick it up, though

[stryc9]

Thunder Force III is great at the higher difficulties.

Interesting to know about the region differences. I actually have a CIB pirate of Thunder Force III, or Thunaer Farce as it is called in big letters on the rear of the case Its in a PAL shaped cartridge as we obviously missed this game (although we were blessed with 2 and 4, and our version of 4 wasn't called something gay like Lightening Force).

It just ran slower because PAL.

I like Elemental Master, although I'm not sold on the music quite like some of you guys, it is a solid game on harder settings. Not sure what to think of the graphics - I know it's an early game, but tiles seem repetitive and some of the enemy sprites are a bit indistinct.

[BIL]

I think EM is aesthetically fairly close to TFIII, but loses out in two regards: not fullscreen, due to pseudo-TATE formatting, and very little parallax where TFIII heaps it on to tremendous effect (Siren and Hades still look mesmerising). It also lacks TFIII's regular enormous midboss sprites, probably due to less screen space, but the main bosses look as good as any of TFIII's. I particularly like stage 2's lamprey-armed, lightning-discharging flying monstrosity and stage 3's antlered god-hedgehog that wants to make roadkill outta you. The weapons look great, especially the flame shot's fire hurricane and the ring's boss-annihilating superlaser. The fantasy motif is a nice change of pace from TS's characteristic futurism, too.

The musical style is a little beard-metal, but I can dig a bit of that occasionally and you actually do play as a wizard. The compositions and FM sounds really do blow my mind, though. Tecno Soft's shooter soundtracks are godly.

[Skykid]

Also Elemental Master is stupid cheap.

Not as cheap as it used to be. I defnitely plan to pick it up, though

Ah, don't follow eBay. You can get it for under £15 on YHJ I'm sure.

[louisg]

Revisiting Elemental Master, that one actually *isn't* as good as I remembered. I like it, but it's definitely no Thunder Force. I think the variety in the enemy patterns isn't as great as in TF, and I'm not finding as many uses for switching between different weapons here either. Then I also was finding the obstacles in the Egyptian level to be tedious to avoid, though I loved what they did with the parallax on that level. Creative stuff.

It's still pretty good overall. One thing I really do like about it is when it starts swarming you from both the top and bottom of the screen. It feels a little like an arena shooter.

Anyway, I played a few credits last night and still think it's pretty hard! I game-overed at the Egyptian level's boss.

Re: Graphics: TF3 may actually look less tiled, but I think it's easier to make a side-view game look less tiley than a top view one, and then because you can find a good excuse to get all that layered scrolling stuff going it masks it even more natural looking. But if you look at the art in TF3's ice stage, it's pretty close stylistically to Elemental Master.

But wow, EM has really gone up on eBay. That used to be one of those "nobody knows this game so it's $5" kind of deals. Even generic crap like Vapor Trail is expensive now. On the bright side, I was looking around and I think some 32-bit era stuff like Thunder Force V has come down quite a bit These things always go through phases.

[BIL]

The sixth boss can be tricky if you don't time the ring's charge shot to cancel its bullets. With the usual Tecno Soft "sprite outline" hitbox, they're not very dodgeable at all.

Shameless plug of a no-miss Mania KO @ 15m40s ^_~

[BrianC]

I think part of the reason Vapor Trail went up is that it's actually pretty rare.

[louisg]

I think part of the reason Vapor Trail went up is that it's actually pretty rare.

Makes sense I guess. It's rare and OKish unlike a game like Technocop which is rare and crappy

[louisg]

So now that the thread is derailed, any fans of Thunder Force II in here? I've tried to like it a few times, and each time I come away wishing that the top view stages had more than 8-directional movement and a radar.