Idiot requests advice...

[Spirit X]

Yes, I'm one of those idiots that owns plenty of shmups but has never actually got anywhere even remotely close to being able to play them. I'm sure there must be a few of us around these parts.

Hi btw, nice to be here.

It was actually Ikaruga that got me into the genre on the Gamecube way back when. Never did 1cc it though. Since then I've purchased many games and, while I do genuinely love playing them, the truth is I often get a lot more satisfaction out of watching superplay vids than actually trying to learn the games.

Well no more!

I want to dedicate some time to getting half decent at one of my shmups with my overall objective being to 1cc the bitch. So my question for those with great wisdom is this: which of the games below would you recommend for this quest, bearing in mind that as of right now, I'm totally crap?

• DoDonPachi Resurrection
  Akai Katana
  Deathsmiles
  Guwange
  Ikaruga
  Radiant Silvergun
  Espgaluda 2 (I will never ever figure out how the hell this works so don't suggest this unless you're going to teach me personally)
  Mushihimesama Futari (apologies if that's spelt wrong)
  Under Defeat HD
  RayForce
  Trigger Heart Exelica
  Gradius V
  Castle Shikigami 2

So that's them. I think there might be a couple more that have come out on the XBox Live Arcade but I can't think of them right now. The next part is me rambling about my experience with shmups so far so please feel free to skip it as I'm sure many of you must be tired of newbs complaining about how difficult these games are to play. Well no. First you have to understand them. Then maybe you can try to learn to play.

So I think I'm favouring Deathsmiles at the moment because, from what I've played so far, I think it just seems to have the most "easy". Specially as you can choose to play levels at their easiest setting. Thing that puts me off though is that if I did get better at it, I would then want to up the difficulty of the levels and would consequently have to relearn them again. Such a pain.

I also think I may stand a chance with Akai Katana because I just find it really good fun. So my enthusiasm may well help me to stick at it. Granted it did take me the best part of two full days to figure out how in holy moly Slash mode worked but once I'd got it, it actually kinda made sense and I understood why sometimes my score would get bigger.

I would love to understand Espgaluda 2 but that's just never gonna happen. I've read the manuals, tutorials, threads on this site, youtube vids. I don't get it. I'm a 37 year old scientifically minded college graduate with an IQ around 135 and I cannot understand this video game. Sometimes I just get it out and look at the box in wonder.

Mushihimesame Futari is fun though. After a few months of research I did actually figure out that you're supposed to use this attack when a number is green and that attack when the number is red, or something. And I enjoyed it. Right up until I got to stage 2 at which point the whole thing just seemed far too hard.

Ditto for Guwange. I actually really enjoyed this game but the third stage just destroyed me and I packed it in after a week or so.

So then, I have a decent arcade stick, some time off work and a good deal of patience and tenacity. Any useful advice would be most welcome. Thanks.

I'm Spirit X on Xbox Live btw and welcome and FRs from shmuppers.

[Vectorman0]

I love shooters as well, and can admit I'm terrible at them. I usually can't make it more than a few levels into a game.

Deathsmiles is the only game I have come close to beating. It's definitely on the easy side like you mentioned. I suggest starting with that one. I should go back to it again and try to beat it, and then I could say I have finally beating a shooter without continuing.

[Kollision]

Deathsmiles is a wise choice, go on with it.

[Fudoh]

I'm not good at Cave games, not at all. Deathsmiles isn't too hard, but there's no way in hell I'll ever beat that final level on the 1st credit. I'd recommend Futari Black Label, which is a DLC for Futari on the 360. Futari Black Label is easy enough that I can 1CC it most of the time, even if I see no land in the other Cave titles.

[KyoKusagani1999]

Both Deathsmiles and DoDonPachi Resurrection are excellent places to start.
With multiple difficulty levels, Deathsmiles is appealing both to new players,
players that are crap, monkeys in the middle, and bullet saint Experts all at once!

As for DoDonPachi Resurrection, Normal Difficulty with Strong Style should
be just about doable for any beginner with just a little bit of practice.
The Autobomb is a savior when it comes to practicing the game,
as well as playing for survival your first few times through.

Oh yeah, as for ESPGaluda II, I'd recommend starting with the first one instead.
It takes a hint from "The Matrix" and gives you the ability to slow down bullets
whenever you like, at whatever part you'd like. Switch back to normal speed
to collect more gems so you can slow down time even more. It's simple,
and once you get the hang of that, it's really not that difficult at all.

[ATTRACTS]

Have you considered trying to 1CC any of the Novice modes first? That's how I started, I 1CC'd the novice modes of games that interested me, then moved on to the next "standard" modes. It's good training and many of the Cave novice modes are still a pretty good challenge after level 3 or 4.
Futari's novice mode is fun/decently challenging, Daifukkatsu's novice is also pretty easy....

If you aren't down with the idea of novice modes, I think your choices of Deathsmiles and Akai are pretty good ones. I personally think Akai is easier but people will disagree. The final sequence of Deathsmiles is pretty taxing.

Overall I think it's important not only to go by what people tell you but the games that visual/audibly appeal to YOU as a player. I know for me, if I'm not 100% feeling the vibe/music/visuals, once I start getting frustrated at later levels, I start picking things apart in my mind. Listening to the same music/sounds and looking at things in repetition over and over again, it's important to like what you are seeing/doing. Otherwise it's easier to give it up quickly.

My XBL is Donpachi76, feel free to add

[Deca]

Dai Fukkatsu/Resurrection is probably the easiest 1cc if you play strong style. Minimal practice at the st5 laser wheels should be more than enough to get you through with all those bombs and hypers (remember that you're invincible for a while during hyper startup). Honestly if you just keep going at it you can cheese a clear out of it without practicing st5 on its own. Just be warned that the game is pretty obnoxious if you decide to get into actual scoring.

Deathsmiles is also an easy clear, especially with Rosa. You'll definitely want to run through the Castle stage on practice until you know the layout and have a general plan for approaching it, but that shouldn't take long. Even easier if you just pick the lowest difficulty for every stage, but you may want to just learn some basic stuff like getting the first score based extend easily in Level3 Volcano and the extend items and all that. Just don't activate Death mode or go to the EX stage and you should be able to do it in a couple days of serious playing.

Futari BL Original is a standard beginner 1cc, but I'd say it's a little harder than the previous two I mentioned. Definitely a good one to play however, as it starts forcing you to develop techniques like streaming/misdirecting/tapping. 1.5 Original is significantly more difficult due to faster bullets, less slowdown and lower firepower.

Akai Katana is weird, it's not too hard to cheese a clear out of but I remember finding it frustrating due to how the mechanics behave at times. I can't call it a bad game, it just didn't really appeal to me enough to figure it out completely.

That's all the stuff on your list that I've personally cleared. Guwange is supposedly not too hard but it really hinges on the option mechanic and bullet cancels, seems to focus on game specific skills rather than transferrable ones which is why I haven't really tackled it. RSG and Ikaruga are more methodical memo games, can't say they're bad but they're really not my style at all. Galuda 2 is mean and initially confusing, I'm probably due to give it yet another chance but I just haven't been able to get into it to date. Under Defeat is very straightforward but pretty aggressive. RayForce is fucking awesome but throws some pretty mean stuff at you in later stages and the lack of bombs means you need to be prepared for all of it, I was working on it a while back but haven't played it since I moved and lost the space for my saturn PVM setup. The other 3 I have very little experience with, Shikigami 2 is one I picked up not too long ago and have been thinking about playing.

Definitely pick something and go for it. Even if it's an easy game, that first 1cc feels amazing and you'll be more motivated than ever!

[MSZ]

Forget ESPGaluda2 and Gradius V, those are definitely not designed for beginners.

[endoKarb]

I want to dedicate some time to getting half decent at one of my shmups with my overall objective being to 1cc the bitch.

I must have told myself "this is it! this is the game I'm gonna play! I'm gonna stick with it until I 1cc it no matter the cost!" just to give up days/hours/minutes later dozens and dozens of times.

No need to stress yourself so much, just play whatever you feel like. You'll get there!

Good luck!

[Marc]

I'd suggest Akai Katana myself. I'm not a great player by any means, but even I have come close to the 1CC on this. My personal choice would be Climax mode though, it feels far more natural to learn than the convoluted Slash mode.

[BulletMagnet]

Espgaluda 2 (I will never ever figure out how the hell this works so don't suggest this unless you're going to teach me personally)

Have you read this article, by any chance?

In any event, I'd also recommend the first Galuda over the latter for a beginner, though some of the extra modes on the 360 port are somewhat more manageable than the Arcade mode.

[Bananamatic]

pink sweets

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Mushihimesame Futari is fun though. After a few months of research I did actually figure out that you're supposed to use this attack when a number is green and that attack when the number is red, or something. And I enjoyed it. Right up until I got to stage 2 at which point the whole thing just seemed far too hard.

Stage 2 isn't even where the difficulty starts to pick up.

It's very rewarding to play in terms of difficulty (tough but not absurdly so in Original) and the score system is pretty simple while still being enjoyable to take advantage of. Get the Black Label DLC and go for the 1CC there. With Reco, it's quite easy, as her BL shot is possibly the strongest shot type in any Cave game ever both in sheer damage and area coverage.

[KAI]

Pinksweets & Muchimuchi Pork!

[Kollision]

damn, quit trolling people

[KAI]

I'm not trolling.
Buy Pinksweets/Muchimuchi Pork. PS arrange and MMP original are really easy to 1CC.

[Spirit X]

Thanks everyone. Very useful advice!

Oh yeah, as for ESPGaluda II, I'd recommend starting with the first one instead.
It takes a hint from "The Matrix" and gives you the ability to slow down bullets
whenever you like, at whatever part you'd like. Switch back to normal speed
to collect more gems so you can slow down time even more. It's simple,
and once you get the hang of that, it's really not that difficult at all.

I don't have access to the first game. I have a standard European Xbox so can only play the region free games. More's the pity.

Have you considered trying to 1CC any of the Novice modes first? That's how I started, I 1CC'd the novice modes of games that interested me, then moved on to the next "standard" modes. It's good training and many of the Cave novice modes are still a pretty good challenge after level 3 or 4.
Futari's novice mode is fun/decently challenging, Daifukkatsu's novice is also pretty easy....

I think I've been operating under the assumption that playing a Novice mode would definitely mean that I'm a coward. It's a good point though. If I want to get better then perhaps I should learn to walk before running.

Deathsmiles is also an easy clear, especially with Rosa. You'll definitely want to run through the Castle stage on practice until you know the layout and have a general plan for approaching it, but that shouldn't take long. Even easier if you just pick the lowest difficulty for every stage, but you may want to just learn some basic stuff like getting the first score based extend easily in Level3 Volcano and the extend items and all that. Just don't activate Death mode or go to the EX stage and you should be able to do it in a couple days of serious playing.

That sir sounds like a challenge. And one I may well accept. I have certainly found Deathsmiles one of the more accessible games so far. Thanks for the detailed post Deca, I'm taking notes.

Forget ESPGaluda2 and Gradius V, those are definitely not designed for beginners.

I think the closest I've got to a 1cc is on Gradius V. Played it quite a bit when it came out and I could get to the last stage in a credit. Without losing a life on a good day. Never did take the time to learn the final stage though.

Have you read this article, by any chance?

I don't think so. I'll definitely give it a read. I know all too well that Galuda 2 is well beyond me at the moment but I do just love the look and feel of the game so it'd be great if I could start to really enjoy playing it. And as ATTRACTS says, finding something that really appeals audio-visually is half the battle.

Of the ones listed here, Ikaruga might be a solid way to go. When I was completely obsessed with it in 2003, I was able to clear it in 3 credits, and I kinda sucked back then. As for Espgaluda II, I've got a video coming up that might be able to explain things for you... so long as my understanding of its scoring is correct

I know Ikaruga is a very different kind of game. Maybe it shouldn't even be considered a shmup. Whatever it is though, I still think it's one of the most sublime strokes of design genius I've ever come across. And the homing missiles are just so satisfying to use

Anyway, having taken all the posts under advisement, I think I'm going to go for Deathsmiles first. Nothing fancy, just a no-frills 1cc with Rosa on easy stages. Deca reckons I need a mere "couple of days serious playing" to get this under my belt but I think he sorely underestimates my tendency to steer into anything that will hurt me. Either way, I have from now until Friday to practice so lets see what happens.

I'm also keen to try out those Novice modes on Futari and DDP Resurrection now too.

[Aleksei]

I'm not trolling.
Buy Pinksweets/Muchimuchi Pork. PS arrange and MMP original are really easy to 1CC.

oh yeah then how come it is I can't clear the arrange modes in both yet? I can get to lvl 6 on PS and MMP on a good day, I admit I haven't put that much time into it, but if this guy wants a clear, like everyone else, I suggest Deathsmiles.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I don't have access to the first game. I have a standard European Xbox so can only play the region free games. More's the pity.

It's easily playable under MAME and highly recommended. I wouldn't feel guilty about doing so as you've bought the closest thing to a region-free release Espgaluda's gotten (at least the second game).

I think I've been operating under the assumption that playing a Novice mode would definitely mean that I'm a coward.

There's a number of Novice modes that are non-trivial clears. Futari Novice tends to be very easy even in Ultra as you're given autobombs, DDP DFK's Novice is quite easy but is good practice for getting into the second loop, and the Omote/Ura loop is much more satisfying in difficulty when you get there. Akai Katana's Novice is very satisfying, non-trivial without being quite the challenge of the standard difficulty. Espgaluda II's Novice is apparently very good too for learning it.

Maybe it shouldn't even be considered a shmup.

Ikaruga is definitely a shmup, it's just of a very different style. It's got some puzzle elements to figuring out good stage paths and is very unforgiving of mistakes due to a lack of safety bombs and revenge bullets released from enemies on Normal and Hard to complicate things further. It's fun, but it's extremely demanding of precision. One stray bullet hitting a popcorn enemy is enough to break a chain, and I'd argue that fullchaining stages in Ikaruga is probably as tough, if not harder than fullchaining a stage in DDP (I've done neither yet, but I'm not really great in either game so take that with a grain of salt).

[colour_thief]

Deathsmiles is really realistic. Skip straight to the castle, and learn how to get all the extends and you're mostly there.

[Deca]

Go get em! Feel free to ask all the questions you need to, I'll be happy to help where I can.

[stryc9]

Seconding Deathsmiles. No EX 1CC is an easy CAVE clear, and just so you know Deathsmiles 2X is even easier.

Play at level 2 through the game though, level 1 is just too stupid easy IMO.

[shmuppyLove]

Deathsmiles is super easy with Rosa.

There are two easily attainable score-based extends, two hidden in the first 6 stages and one if you don't bomb on Jitterbug.

It was my first Cave 1CC, and DDP DFK Novice came a little bit later.

I have 1CC'd Crimzon Clover Simple as well, but that took a lot longer to accomplish.

[starbelle]

Pinksweets & Muchimuchi Pork!

I can actually 1cc to the 3rd stage now lol (pinksweets)

[starbelle]

Mushihimesama Futari (apologies if that's spelt wrong)
2[/list]

I'm new two, I found Futari pretty easy from cave stuff

[CHI]

which of the games below would you recommend for this quest

It was actually Ikaruga that got me into the genre

Start with Ikaruga cos you're familiar with it already...
If not, either DoDonPachi Resurrection or Deathsmiles should be an easy-ish clear for you

PS arrange and MMP original are really easy to 1CC.

LOL... really easy to 1cc I don't see a lot of 1cc on MMP
Both are really fun to play, but it's not everyone's cup of tea

[KAI]

Really? Futari normal is harder than MMP IMO.

[Cagar]

Really? Futari normal is harder than MMP IMO.

Totally not. I can barely get to stage 4 in MMP on mame. Something about hitboxes and stupid missiles and stuff

[Deca]

I can actually 1cc to the 3rd stage

Why do people say things like this? That's not what 1cc means.

[nZero]

I can actually 1cc to the 3rd stage

Why do people say things like this? That's not what 1cc means.

Why not? If you can clear the first two stages on one credit then writing that makes sense, even if it's not exactly traditional usage.