DoDonPachi Saidaioujou coming to Xbox 360 (REGION-FREE!)

[DrTrouserPlank]

I just can't understand how hard can it be to understand such a simple scoring system.
I mean what the FUCK?
Keep your chain up (and make it higher with high lvl hypers), get bee items and that's it.
Everything else (some advanced little techniques) you can find out pretty fast by just playing and maybe watching a replay or two. (Hint: One good replay is enough)

What's so freaking hard to understand?

I feel this empty wind inside my skull when trying to figure out if a human being can really be this clueless stupid. (DrTrouserPlank) Sorry if this sounds like a hard abuse, I have no means to hurt your feelings, but i'm so sure that this user is a troll account that I don't feel much sympathy.

The last page of posts ought to have dispelled the notion that the system in this game is trivial. Indeed your suggestion to those ends is actually offensive since this is by far and away the best discussion of SDOJ's scoring that has happened to my knoledge... even including the strategy section.

One has to wonder if the "empty wind felt inside your scull" is one of inquisition, or bigoted ideology to a cause that never existed, and an agenda that you created within you own mind.

Thanks to the lads once again who helped me tonight with their description on the scoring system and the way it works..... I learned a lot and I imagine that some other people will/did as well.

XBL: AgentKillmore

If you fancy another "friend"

[Sumez]

I have to agree, the system is definitely not simple. On the surface, there's a simple premise to it, which is good - not like that insane Akai Katana mumbojumbo where you need to match up all kind of crap. But there are a LOT of little details about how to quicker maximize your hit chains and hyper charge, as well as general scoring strategy. Stuff that is vital to understand if you really care about scoring. It's nowhere near as transparent as Cagar is making it out to be, I think the last few pages here is more than enough proof of that...

[Special World]

So wait, are you guys saying that you get larger stars if you kill enemies when the hyper bar is at max? That's definitely something I'll have to consider, not that I could do much with it.

Also, does anybody feel like... Arcade/1.5 are a throwback to classic Cave, where there are less bullets but the difficulty is incredibly brutal, while Novice Expert feels like it balances the game out in such a way that it feels like a more modern Cave game? Like, there are more bullets, but they're slower and more able to be woven through, and because of the extra enemy shots there's also a lot more to cancel, so the scoring is a little bit more energetic?

Obviously this is only compared to 1.5 shot/laser, and not expert. But Novice Expert feels more like modern Cave in terms of bullet count, bullet speed, and item pyrotechnics than v1.5 does. Of course, I've only played it a little bit so far, but it seems like a great concession toward Cave's modern style.

[hail good sir]

Yeah novice expert with A-type is still my personal favorite mode, and gets my blood flowing once the rank starts climbing. The only criticism I can really make against it is that there is too much slowdown during the stage 3 midboss and during stage 5, and that it's too easy to abuse.... although I should probably shut up since I still can't put together a remotely good stage 5 run yet. Oh yeah and the stage 3 boss is too easy compared to 2 and 4.

[Giest118]

I think Cagar's meaning was simply that the most important aspects of SDOJ's scoring are easy to grasp. The subtleties that have filled the last page are simply extensions of those mechanics that you can figure out by, say... looking at the screen. The multiplier that happens when you use a hyper is printed on the screen, right there for you to see. It should be pretty easy to guess that point items are things you might consider getting. Bee items netting you hypers should also be fairly easy to notice, by way of simply noticing that your hyper gauge is partially filled when you get a bee.

The more opaque mechanics (laser-aura for hyper, hyper instant-recharge) are advanced techniques that aren't necessary to know for a basic clear, or even for novice-to-mid-level scoreplay.

[Special World]

I think Cagar's meaning was simply that the most important aspects of SDOJ's scoring are easy to grasp. The subtleties that have filled the last page are simply extensions of those mechanics that you can figure out by, say... looking at the screen. The multiplier that happens when you use a hyper is printed on the screen, right there for you to see. It should be pretty easy to guess that point items are things you might consider getting. Bee items netting you hypers should also be fairly easy to notice, by way of simply noticing that your hyper gauge is partially filled when you get a bee.

The more opaque mechanics (laser-aura for hyper, hyper instant-recharge) are advanced techniques that aren't necessary to know for a basic clear, or even for novice-to-mid-level scoreplay.

tbh a lot of things in Cave games that seem obvious in hindsight are very easy to overlook when you're playing the game. Like, I didn't know for the longest time that just holding rapid in Futari Black Maniac would raise your counter, I thought that you were supposed to raise the meter to red and then use your laser to collect those large gems, always. And that's one of my all-time favorite games.

You don't need to know all the scoring tricks for basic play, but in my mind, the fun of basic play is trying to work out all these mechanics even though you can't survive the third stage. And ragging on somebody for trying to understand the game is kinda fucked, imo. I don't suspect Cagar is a total asshole or anything, and sometimes TrouserPlank can go a plank too far. But I think the questions he was asking were really fair. I don't think people should blow up on people on this forum in general, unless they say something super bigoted or something. But if you're going to get totally jagged off and blow up on somebody, at least do it in one of the instances when there's something to blow up about. I think people on the internet should just be nicer in general, really. If not for the person that they would attack, then for themselves. I personally feel a lot better now that I've made the decision to treat people on the internet like human beings instead of computer text.

[-S.L-]

nice words

[Sumez]

Yep, very much in support of Special World here

[Drachenherz]

+1 @Special World

[DrTrouserPlank]

I like pie.

[Cagar]

But I think the questions he was asking were really fair. I don't think people should blow up on people on this forum in general, unless they say something super bigoted or something. But if you're going to get totally jagged off and blow up on somebody, at least do it in one of the instances when there's something to blow up about. I think people on the internet should just be nicer in general, really. If not for the person that they would attack, then for themselves. I personally feel a lot better now that I've made the decision to treat people on the internet like human beings instead of computer text.

Look:

Admittedly the chain goes through the roof in a way I don't understand during a hyper so I don't know what that means as far as the score goes

Here's the stuff that made me blow up about. Trolling, and people taking it seriously.


However, I agree with you. I get attacked here and on irc almost daily, even with "COMMIT SUICIDE, PRICK" kind of stuff. and nobody ever listens when I try to explain how much that sucks


Also, please see:

Sorry if this sounds like a hard abuse, I have no means to hurt your feelings, but i'm so sure that this user is a troll account that I don't feel much sympathy.

EDIT: Lol at people who call others pedophiles by just looking at their avatars, giving support to special world. Nice job.

[DrTrouserPlank]

So who's accusing who of doing what now?....

If as I understand it I am getting accused of trolling for asking about how the scoring in a game works, then that's a new one on me even for this forum.

[japtor]

I wouldn't say the scoring stuff is easy to see or obvious a lot of the time, but I do think it's sort of minutiae and overkill vs the big picture basics for a player just getting into it.

As for Novice mode (only playing shot/laser here) it kind of feels like a normal Cave game knocked down a stage or two in terms of difficulty progression. Like level 5 in Novice feels more like a stage 3 or 4 in a normal game.

[Special World]

Hey Cagar, I'm not trying to get at your throat. I haven't noticed you being a generally hostile user or anything, and it's chill at this point. I was as much speaking about the general tone of these forums as anything else.

As for the chain boost, I know that it goes up rapidly from using hypers and hitting stuff, but I don't know how much the golden stars are contributing. It's the weird specifics that spell the difference between a Cave game and everything else, really. That and the excellent presentation, waves of bullets and scoring items and everything. I can't believe that people don't like this game's soundtrack. It's sort of muffled, but god is it good. Definitely one of Cave's best imo, and probably *the* best they've ever done. It's at the point where I look forward to every stage as much for the music as the gameplay. Not so hot on 360 mode's soundtrack though, especially with all the talking going on. I do think that one has a particularly good stage 4 track, though?

I think I should just practice stages 4 and 5 of novice and get that clear. The first three stages are cake, although I've definitely beat stage 4 without dying as well. What's weird is that I feel like Novice Expert is definitely way easier than 1.5, but I actually find the first two levels harder. It's like the difficulty curve has been pulled more towards the middle, the whole way through.

[Deca]

I played a credit of Novice/Shot around 4am last night in an exhausted stupor after a few hours of working on Arcade. Just wanted a frame of reference for what people are talking about.

I could see Novice/Expert being somewhat challenging (I have yet to try it) but anyone saying Shot or Laser are on par with any other Cave game is probably just trying to make themselves feel better. I got through it first try with 2 deaths, and one of them was just me spacing out stupidly on stage 3.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to play Novice with the intention of applying anything you learn to Aracde or 1.5, it lets you get away with so much flailing that you'll be in for a fairly rude awakening on a mode where the popcorn actually fires at you.

[Special World]

I'd say Novice Shot/Laser is definitely comparable with the difficulty of an easy run in either Deathsmiles game. It's definitely an outlier among Cave's games, but it's got company there, imo.

[Deca]

I'd say Novice Shot/Laser is definitely comparable with the difficulty of an easy run in either Deathsmiles game. It's definitely an outlier among Cave's games, but it's got company there, imo.

I think DS is a bit more difficult, the final stage requires a little bit of planning and I feel like the boss is more aggressive. I suppose my opinion may be slightly skewed however, DS was my first Cave clear and I've (probably) improved significantly since then.

[Special World]

Yeah, it's hard to say for sure. I can get to Stage 5 in Novice with all my lives intact, but then I lose one and the rest follow. And for Deathsmiles 2... I have no idea how I got that clear. I got to the final boss with one life left, and it was like he was physically unable to kill me. If somebody told me there was a glitch that meant he couldn't kill you, I wouldn't be surprised. I went through so many bullet swarms that seemed like a sure hit and came away unscathed.

[Drachenherz]

You were just in the zzzzzzone, Special World.

[Special World]

Maybe :p Stage 1 and 2 are definitely in the zzzone, but Stage 3 starts coming around. I'm definitely not all fired up until stage 4 at least, though.

[Special World]

Finally wrote up a review on my blog:

http://catstronaut.wordpress.com/2013/0 ... idaioujou/

[MSZ]

After countless hours of training, I've finally reached the second half of stage 4 in Arcade HD.

[japtor]

What's weird is that I feel like Novice Expert is definitely way easier than 1.5, but I actually find the first two levels harder. It's like the difficulty curve has been pulled more towards the middle, the whole way through.

Tried a real play of this one today and yeah I think that's a good assessment of it (from what I played at least, got to stage 5 mid bosses). Beyond some stuff just throwing more bullets here and there, the part that really screwed me up in particular were the extra bullets from the early popcorn enemies. Normally I barely notice them but with enough on screen at once it forced me to do some more conscious dodging.

[finisherr]

I don't know if you guys have tried it but...

Version 1.5
A-Type
Laser
Autobomb Off

It's like a dream. I just tried this setup for the first time (i was riding A-Type/Shot before) and juuuust got past the Stage 4 midboss. SDJ is quickly beecoming one of my all-time favorite shooters. CAVE really killed it on this one.

Also, I'm totally used to the shiny aesthetics now. I almost kind of like it.

[Special World]

I definitely like it. The more bombastic Cave's graphics get, the better. I love the look of DOJ, Ketsui, and Guwange, but imo nothing compares to their over the top style in Futari Black and Saidaioujou.

[Skykid]

I definitely like it. The more bombastic Cave's graphics get, the better. I love the look of DOJ, Ketsui, and Guwange, but imo nothing compares to their over the top style in Futari Black and Saidaioujou.

I do not get the love for Futari's visuals. Plays great, looks like CG vomit. Espgaluda II is kind of an impossible act to follow, but Deathsmiles and Futari were definitely the lull before DFK and Akai Katana picked up the ball.

[ptoing]

Futari has nice backgrounds, most of the enemies are pretty meh though. Cave does not seem to have capable texture artists, or they do not have the budget to spend some time on that.

Espgaluda is pretty nice looking indeed, apart from the 2nd level which has some weird sharpening crap going on. (looks much better on a CRT though).

And I dunno, DFK..... It looks inconsistent as hell to me. The port moreso than the arcade version. What with the willy nilly mixing or reworked sprites and prerendered enemies.

In Akai Katana I also do not think the higher resolution of the port helps with the art, at least not with the enemies, which look very toylike.

I still like DP and DDP best, as far as looks of Cave games go. But then again, I am a pixel artist.

[Special World]

Espgaluda II has pretty cool environments, but imo the colors are too faded and the bosses are way too... indistinct and samey? Not the fairy bosses but all the random steampunk machinations.

[-S.L-]

DFK's stage 3 has the worst background i've ever seen. Whats that low res city picture as a background seriously ??

[Skykid]

DFK's stage 3 has the worst background i've ever seen. Whats that low res city picture as a background seriously ??

That's probably the best looking stage in the game.