DoDonPachi Saidaioujou coming to Xbox 360 (REGION-FREE!)

[DrTrouserPlank]

Surely all the score difference has to be due to the big tokens that appear for killing with the chain bar full and not a lot else.?

The chain never drops, tbh you'd have to try to make it drop so that isn't the factor. I mean, if you aren't dying then you are pretty much guaranteed to be chaining everything so I don't see that is a big distinguishing factor between runs.

Are the higher level hypers just immensely more valuable than lower level ones?.. From the table of values they don't seem to be frankly as we are talking about increments of 0.2 on a multiplier, although what that multiplier applies to I don't know.

The more I try to score the less I score, and the further I get, and I still don't see how I scored the same by the start of stage 4 as by mid-way through stage 5. If it all comes down to being able to deploy lvl10 hypers then that's ok, but I can't believe that's all there is to the scoring as it leaves very little room for variation.

[hail good sir]

Even a 1.2 multiplier is going to be 20% more score for the duration of the hyper. Now imagine getting double, or triple score. It's all about using those high level hypers in the right spot. You may not drop your chain completely but a 30% drop say, twice in a stage, is going to kill your score.

The multiplier applies to your GP value, the + number in the box in the upper left. That value is added to every single enemy you kill, and keeps growing with every enemy you kill. So, at a level 10 hyper, you are getting 3x the extra score added to every single enemy you kill, for the duration of the hyper. The GP value drops by the same rules as your hit count.

[dannnnn]

It's possible to activate a level 6~8 hyper just before the stage 2 mid-boss, extend by the end of stage 2, and have a level 10 hyper ready during the stage 3 mid-boss. I know this for a fact since I've done it in 1.5 (I died before I could activate the level 10 hyper though ).

It's possible in 1.5 because you get hypers so much more quickly.

You can't do that in arcade HD or novice as far as I am aware.

You can do it just the same in arcade mode.

[-S.L-]

no offence, i'm fairly neutral person here or in life, but after reading all DrTrouserPlank's post in this topic, I'm not quiet sure that he knows what he is talking about in general about this game and about his own skills

[DrTrouserPlank]

no offence, i'm fairly neutral person here or in life, but after reading all DrTrouserPlank's post in this topic, I'm not quiet sure that he knows what he is talking about in general about this game and about his own skills

I don't. That's why I'm asking questions and trying to find out what is going on with the scoring, because it doesn't make a lot of sense based on what I understand is meant to be happening.

Usually there is a topic on a game's mechanics, but there isn't really one for SDOJ and a lot of detail is missing.

[trap15]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45983

[-S.L-]

Alright then

I was just surprised reading you saying that you probably had better dodging skills than most of us here (your words, not mine) and couldn't past a novice mode ? As I think SDOJ IS a dodging game, compared to let's say Daifukkatsu with all the hyper/bullet/vacum cleaning techniques.

But yeah, the scoring can be a little tricky with all those multipliers, GP bonus etc etc...

No worries man

[Deca]

While it takes a lot more to completely drop your chain, it's quite easy to have it reduced significantly. The way scoring scales with chain and hyper value makes it ramp up considerably toward the top end of it. Scoring in chain based systems tends to work like that as opposed to being a linear progression. Also, losing a chunk of your chain by letting the meter bottom out here and there will impact your ability to charge hypers.

You can't expect to score consistently or predictably until you have an actual plan for hyper routes and all that. If you're mainly using them to speedkill midbosses and sort of as bombs then you'll find big discrepancies in your score just depending on what ended up happening during hyper activations and all that. While the chaining system is a lot looser in theory compared to other games in the series, it's still quite strict if you're score attacking seriously.

[DrTrouserPlank]

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45983

It doesn't explain much though. It's just telling you how 1.5 differs from arcade, and not how arcade works at all.

I'm still having trouble understanding how even if you are deploying lvl10 hypers how the difference in a standard clearing score of say 2B in novice and a top score of about 22B could occur.

Even with a 3x multi how much can you really be scoring during a hyper which is pretty short.. in normal play you'd score virtually nothing during that period so even 3x it can't be such a massive amount. it can't be billions every time, I doubt it's even 500M per go, and how long does it take to charge a lvl10 hyper? if you get one on level 3 you aren't gonna get another one until about the start of level 5 I wouldn't imagine.

Admittedly the chain goes through the roof in a way I don't understand during a hyper so I don't know what that means as far as the score goes

[DrTrouserPlank]

While it takes a lot more to completely drop your chain, it's quite easy to have it reduced significantly. The way scoring scales with chain and hyper value makes it ramp up considerably toward the top end of it. Scoring in chain based systems tends to work like that as opposed to being a linear progression. Also, losing a chunk of your chain by letting the meter bottom out here and there will impact your ability to charge hypers.

You can't expect to score consistently or predictably until you have an actual plan for hyper routes and all that. If you're mainly using them to speedkill midbosses and sort of as bombs then you'll find big discrepancies in your score just depending on what ended up happening during hyper activations and all that. While the chaining system is a lot looser in theory compared to other games in the series, it's still quite strict if you're score attacking seriously.

So you are saying that the rate at which you accumulate hyper charge depends on the size of the chain you currently have? so in theory if you deploy your lvl 10 hyper and rack up a 5000HIT it will be easy to charge for another hyper while that chain is still active, as opposed to being at say 500?

[-S.L-]

No doesn't work that way for the hyper charge at all. If you are at 0 or 10000 in your chain, it won'take a difference how fast your hyper gauge will climb. It all depends on how close you are from the enemies, on how many stars you collect (and how big they are). That's the only simple thing in this game

[Erppo]

No doesn't work that way for the hyper charge at all. If you are at 0 or 10000 in your chain, it won'take a difference how fast your hyper gauge will climb.

Yes it does.

[-S.L-]

I have the game since December, and I have NEVER observed such a thing. So no it doesn't

Are we talking about arcade mode here ??

[trap15]

It very much does. DOJ is like that, and I'm pretty sure I've noticed it do that with SDOJ as well.

[DrTrouserPlank]

No doesn't work that way for the hyper charge at all. If you are at 0 or 10000 in your chain, it won'take a difference how fast your hyper gauge will climb.

Yes it does.

I also assume from having seen one of your replays that point-blanking enemies with the laser still charges hyper quicker as well?

So you charge more per enemy kill at higher chain than you do at lower.... (is it actually charged via kills or via the size of medals collected?)

So do you score more per enemy kill at higher chains than at lower.. (and one again, is it per enemy kill or by medals collected/size)?

How much of this is the same as DFK?.. maybe I'll go read that thread because I think it was more fleshed out than the SDOJ strategy thread.

[Drachenherz]

No doesn't work that way for the hyper charge at all. If you are at 0 or 10000 in your chain, it won'take a difference how fast your hyper gauge will climb.

Yes it does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkzjBfTDH20&sns=em

[hail good sir]

Even with a 3x multi how much can you really be scoring during a hyper which is pretty short.. in normal play you'd score virtually nothing during that period so even 3x it can't be such a massive amount. it can't be billions every time, I doubt it's even 500M per go, and how long does it take to charge a lvl10 hyper? if you get one on level 3 you aren't gonna get another one until about the start of level 5 I wouldn't imagine.

A shitload, it all depends on what your GP value is and the section you use it at. You just need to experiment and find out, for instance if you save up for the stage 3 midboss try to do it when there is a lot of popcorn coming from the right, each kill = your propped up GP bonus, you just have to balance it between surviving the final pattern and not taking a chain hit at certain times.

What you don't seem to be getting I think? is that it's a stacking bonus, it gets quite large, then if it's large and you multiply it by 2 or 3 it becomes really large. As I said if you're taking 30% hits here and there then you are going to be left with less than half of what you would had.

Chain affects the hyper you get from bees, how fast it charges lasering the boss, and if SL says it's just gold stars and not kills then I don't have the experience to disagree but in practice it makes no difference because killing gives stars, and I can't deny that when I have a 10k chain in stage 2 I charge hypers really freaking fast.

[-S.L-]

It is just an illusion that you got , as its more busy in later stages so its more likely to have more hits of course and so more stars and therefor it's logical that your hyper rise much faster. But the internal programming for how the hyper rise is the same for a 0 or a 1000 or a 200000000 chain. Jut like I explained above.

Of course this doesn't included the refill trick system

[Icarus]

I have the game since December, and I have NEVER observed such a thing. So no it doesn't
Are we talking about arcade mode here ??

In all modes the amount of hyper gained scales with the hit counter, and tops out at some value near 10k. Holding laser on big stuff adds a small amount of charge, and using laser aura charges up hyper very quickly. Bee medals give hyper depending on the hit counter, and varies depending on mode - 360 Mode doesn't give you hyper on collection, AC maxes out at 30% per bee (with the x2 bee at the end of the stage being worth 100%), and it appears that ver1.5 gives you a full hyper per bee depending on your hit counter.

The most obvious source of hyper are the medals, but hyper is generated in other ways as well. If you want an easy observation, watch the hyper bar on bosses when at 0HIT vs 10000HIT. Or how quickly a high level player can generate hyper in stage1 by laser pointblanking everything vs a novice who uses shot on everything. Or how you can gain two quick hypers on the st4 boss's last form with a 10k+ chain by laser auraing the discs while they are invincible.

[hail good sir]

It's definitely not an illusion, sorry.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I have the game since December, and I have NEVER observed such a thing. So no it doesn't
Are we talking about arcade mode here ??

In all modes the amount of hyper gained scales with the hit counter, and tops out at some value near 10k. Holding laser on big stuff adds a small amount of charge, and using laser aura charges up hyper very quickly. Bee medals give hyper depending on the hit counter, and varies depending on mode - 360 Mode doesn't give you hyper on collection, AC maxes out at 30% per bee (with the x2 bee at the end of the stage being worth 100%), and it appears that ver1.5 gives you a full hyper per bee depending on your hit counter.

The most obvious source of hyper are the medals, but hyper is generated in other ways as well. If you want an easy observation, watch the hyper bar on bosses when at 0HIT vs 10000HIT. Or how quickly a high level player can generate hyper in stage1 by laser pointblanking everything vs a novice who uses shot on everything. Or how you can gain two quick hypers on the st4 boss's last form with a 10k+ chain by laser auraing the discs while they are invincible.

Interesting.

What's "laser aura"?... pointblanking with laser?

How much of a difference does it make to score by delaying mid-sized enemy kills, then maxing the chain bar on some spare popcorn and then killing the mid-sized for big medals? is this dependent on chain size or is big medal collection a fixed value irrespective of chain?

[Icarus]

The flare that surrounds your ship when you are lasering is your aura - it can do some damage and can charge hyper. Works the same as it does in does in Daifukkatsu and Daioujou.

How much of a difference does it make to score by delaying mid-sized enemy kills, then maxing the chain bar on some spare popcorn and then killing the mid-sized for big medals? is this dependent on chain size or is big medal collection a fixed value irrespective of chain?

This is more beneficial to hyper generation than anything else. Getting to at least a +6 in most modes is important, but once you hyper, it's just pure destruction all the way.

[-S.L-]

Icarus, of course that collecting bees increase your hyper, of course that lasering instead of shooting increase your hyper, of course that point blanking will do, of course that sticking your ship as close as possible on bosses with your aura for exemple will increase your hyper... I personnaly can get hyper 8 at the end of stage 1. And my hits doesnt go higher than 1500 !

the question he asked WAS :

does your NUMBER of HITS, if it's higher will it incrase your hyper faster than if it was lower, and on THIS POINT the answer is no !

lets say you dont use any of these technique mentionned above.

you are on a stage where there is a decent amount of enemies ok, no bees in this stage, no laser on a enemies, you just stay at the bottom, just shoot, you make exatly the same run, the same moves, one for a chain of 0 hits (which will increase of course due to enemies killing) and one with a 1000000000 hit chain, your hyper gauge will increase exactly the same.

i'm not stuborn, it's a just a fact

Nevermind !

[Icarus]

i'm not stuborn, it's a just a fact
Nevermind !

Yes it does. And go translate this:
http://www.cave.co.jp/gameonline/saidai ... tem/hyper/
It states it quote clearly that hyper gained is based on your chain.

Hyper meter you can Earn up to LV10.

Has the effect of changing the score item enemy bullets on the screen during the hyper-system startup, the following effects will be added depending on the level during startup.

Attack of the laser shot and rises
Score the number of occurrences of items when you defeat the enemy in a state in which the GP meter has reached the upper limit is increased
When challenged with laser or enemy at break, HIT boost occurs in the score item acquisition, HIT count soar
Magnification occurs GP bonus to get
GP time meter until the 0 is doubled, HIT is hardly interrupted
Difficulty level of the game is increased rank rises

There are several ways to earn hyper meter.

I get a score items
(Only if you are not using the hyper system)
To increase the HIT count continues to attack by laser
(Hyper-meter rise in response to the HIT count)
I get a bee item
(Hyper-meter rise in response to the HIT count)
And close to the enemy, to attack at the base of laser attack

For someone who has owned the game since December, you'd think you'd be able to make these observations by now. Therefore, get your facts straight.

[DrTrouserPlank]

The flare that surrounds your ship when you are lasering is your aura - it can do some damage and can charge hyper. Works the same as it does in does in Daifukkatsu and Daioujou.

How much of a difference does it make to score by delaying mid-sized enemy kills, then maxing the chain bar on some spare popcorn and then killing the mid-sized for big medals? is this dependent on chain size or is big medal collection a fixed value irrespective of chain?

This is more beneficial to hyper generation than anything else. Getting to at least a +6 in most modes is important, but once you hyper, it's just pure destruction all the way.

OK thanks for the answers everyone, this is helping a lot.

So why is it, when you hyper that the chain goes through the roof?..... maybe that's just the game being dramatic? I can understand that, but for example.. you might have chained the whole level beforehand and be on only 400-500. You hit the hyper and the chain is in the thousands. How is this achieved and how is this maximised in terms of score?. Is it best to deploy a hyper in a section where there is loads of popcorn coming up in order to raise the chain? The hypers in this game are different since the bullet cancel effect is fleeting so I don't really know what the strategy is meant to be.

The "aura" explains why we are able to point-blank the S4B final form and eliminate the satellites without directly hitting them.

Is using the "aura" key to scoring big by per-emptively annihilating swarms and blanking medium enemies?.. I assume it is; just because it's going to charge your hyper.

I kind of want to know this stuff, and although I'll never fully exploit it; I don't like playing games that I don't understand so this helps me a lot.

Thanks for the help incidentally to everyone has replied.. even if you haven't been directly quoted.

[Deca]

Hyper applies a multiplier to hits going into your chain, the multiplier is larger at higher levels of hyper. I can't remember exact values off the top of my head.

Aura has a lot of uses. At high level you mostly want to be sitting on top of medium enemies at every opportunity to boost your hyper gauge. Other uses include using it to shield yourself from popcorn that slipped around your shot and is coming from the side of behind you...or really any instance where you need to attack something beside or behind you.

[Erppo]

How much of this is the same as DFK?.. maybe I'll go read that thread because I think it was more fleshed out than the SDOJ strategy thread.

Some aspects are same but there are many differences. In DFK the hit count does not affect recharge. The chain point gain works in the same way except for the conditional multiplier (based on the hit count) that DFK uses. Everything related to hypers themselves is almost completely opposite.

Most of the other things were already answered but the main advantage of high level hypers is actually the fact that you get big stars from all canceled bullets (main sources: midbosses, especially st3, and the st5 big towers) and those give lots of chain value. The big stars also give a lot of charge but only when you don't have a hyper active. The recharging is based on this. It should be noted that the hyper multiplier only affects the point gain from the chain and not the value added to it like the multiplier of DFK does.

[Icarus]

The amount of hypers you use at once multiplies the amount of hits you gain from each single enemy, and the amount of hits you gain for holding laser on something. awo posted a good set of calculation tables that can explain this easier than I can. The layman's explanation is "more hypers, more hit", though of course it's not always going to be efficient building to a +10 all the time.

[Cagar]

I just can't understand how hard can it be to understand such a simple scoring system.
I mean what the FUCK?
Keep your chain up (and make it higher with high lvl hypers), get bee items and that's it.
Everything else (some advanced little techniques) you can find out pretty fast by just playing and maybe watching a replay or two. (Hint: One good replay is enough)

What's so freaking hard to understand?

I feel this empty wind inside my skull when trying to figure out if a human being can really be this clueless stupid. (DrTrouserPlank) Sorry if this sounds like a hard abuse, I have no means to hurt your feelings, but i'm so sure that this user is a troll account that I don't feel much sympathy.

[ATTRACTS]

I just can't understand how hard can it be to understand such a simple scoring system.
I mean what the FUCK?
Keep your chain up (and make it higher with high lvl hypers), get bee items and that's it.
Everything else (some advanced little techniques) you can find out pretty fast by just playing and maybe watching a replay or two. (Hint: One good replay is enough)

What's so freaking hard to understand?

I feel this empty wind inside my skull when trying to figure out if a human being can really be this clueless stupid. (DrTrouserPlank) Sorry if this sounds like a hard abuse, I have no means to hurt your feelings, but i'm so sure that this user is a troll account that I don't feel much sympathy.

Some of the questions and answers provided by his questions have helped some people understand a little more depth than just "keep chain up". Ignore his posts if you are so negative about him asking questions, the purpose of being here is to discuss the game and (one would hope), allow a community to help each other out.