PS4 / Xbox One console war

[Jonathan Ingram]

Microsoft would have to try 3x harder than they did this past gen if they want to make any meaningful impact in Japan, so I'm not very confident that they'll announce a large number of worth-while Japanese exclusives, but we'll just have to wait and see.

Hopefully, fewer Japanese developers will be willing to accept Microsoft`s money this time around. The 360 proved to be extremely disruptive to the Japanese videogame industry and tanked virtually every exclusive game it was bestowed with.

[Ed Oscuro]

I just clicked the Gizmodo link.

They really need to step up their game. For a long time Gizmodo (along with every Gawker-related site I've encountered) is your bottom-feeder of "news" sites. Apparently they don't just rehash PR releases without adding any reasonable insight, though, this time they add a rabidly anti-consumer screed on top of their cluelessness.

Has anybody inside the industry been cited (off the record, where things are best said) saying the Xbox One is their platform of choice? I really don't see it.

You know who else comes off like a worthless pile of Online Passes? The self-appointed consumers watchdog association (which is, unless I am very much mistaken, funded and backed by industry members), the "Entertainment Consumers Association." Rather than the Entertainment Software Association, which is forthright about being a lobby group, the ESA appears to maintain the charade of being a "for us, by us" type organization, but you wouldn't know that from their apparent dead silence on this or pretty much any other consumer rights (by consumer rights I do not mean "industry interests," just as one wouldn't say Chrysler is an "automotive consumer association" because they buy parts from MOPAR, and even third parties) issue.

They have some Forums, including subforums on Microsoft and "Issue Areas & Policy" including "digital rights." However nobody has posted in either of these subforums since long before the Xbox One was announced or we had some inkling of policy decisions. It's not like the ESA minds what you have to say - blatant spam threads in the forum indicate it's not even maintained, let alone watched by young, evolving consumer advocates for trending issues.

[e_tank]

you mean to tell me people bitching on teh internets actually accomplished something positive!? brave new world.. step in the right direction for the xbone but i'm still not looking forward to it, plenty of issues left to be addressed that are a cause for concern.

[Ganelon]

Hmm, no DRM is both good and bad news for me. Good in that I'll be able to play Xbone games 20 years down the line instead of potentially having a large brick and colorful coasters. Bad in that I may have to figure out which version of each multi-platform game to get instead of defaulting to the PS4 version every time.

This change should make the next gen console race a lot more difficult to predict. It looks like Microsoft is still betting on the core of "games make systems" traditional game analysis. A 25% difference in price has historically not been a major factor in sales success, and it looks like Microsoft won't be budging there. The Kinect will still be a differentiating added value for the general public despite what privacy naysayers have been saying. I sort of pity Microsoft that the NSA leak came at a poor moment but most people don't care about privacy based on how continuously popular social media known to track activity (e.g. Facebook, Twitter) are. If people don't mind filming themselves now and sharing that footage, then there's not likely to be much change moving forward.

Although there will be ill feelings toward Microsoft for its ill-advised initial direction, it looks like this console race will ultimately be decided by games just as with all previous generations. Currently, I'd say Microsoft has the better exclusives with Halo and Forza. One major factor may be what features the Kinect can provide. As a pack-in with the console and with almost certainly stronger capabilities than the PS Eye, the new Kinect has been a surprisingly under-the-radar X factor that Microsoft could potentially leverage into a key advantage over the PS4 with some creative thinking and if casual audiences are still willing to buy motion control games (an admittedly big "if").

They really need to step up their game. For a long time Gizmodo (along with every Gawker-related site I've encountered) is your bottom-feeder of "news" sites. Apparently they don't just rehash PR releases without adding any reasonable insight, though, this time they add a rabidly anti-consumer screed on top of their cluelessness.

I think you have a lot more faith in video game journalism than warranted. That article leaves open some critical logical gaps between DRM and the fair goal of digital convenience. My previous post's points against Microsoft's argument would apply here as well. That said, I'd wager the author put up a controversial article just to draw more views.

Anyway, I've got to see that it's surprising to see a bulky process-oriented company like Microsoft relent in the face of nonstop bad publicity. Maybe if the Windows execs take a 30,000 ft. view as well and stop pushing touchscreen-oriented desktop OSs that appeal to few consumers, the company would see better receptivity and results in that market too.

Side note since it looks like the Xbone is here to stay: does anybody else look askance at the "X1" abbreviation? As far as I'm concerned, the only X1 in gaming is Sharp's computer. I'd be fine with the new "180" label though.

[Ed Oscuro]

They really need to step up their game. For a long time Gizmodo (along with every Gawker-related site I've encountered) is your bottom-feeder of "news" sites. Apparently they don't just rehash PR releases without adding any reasonable insight, though, this time they add a rabidly anti-consumer screed on top of their cluelessness.

I think you have a lot more faith in video game journalism than warranted.

I'm saying they're bad in comparison to everybody else.

There actually are some journalists who try to cover the big stories - Jim Sterling comes to mind.

[trap15]

Side note since it looks like the Xbone is here to stay: does anybody else look askance at the "X1" abbreviation? As far as I'm concerned, the only X1 in gaming is Sharp's computer. I'd be fine with the new "180" label though.

Yeah, I dislike people calling Xbone "X1". The only X1 is indeed the Sharp X1. If anything, write "XB1"

[Lord Satori]

tbh, I wish they hadn't done this. I was hoping that they'd remain completely oblivious to the fact that they screwed up and implode. I have the feeling that this will send many people scurrying to buy an Xbone, completely forgetting microsofts anti-consumer policy it had as if they had the memory of a goldfish.

[Skykid]

I wish Friendly weren't banned from OT, I would like to read his input on this one. <_<

Sorry, but Off Topic hasn't been this civil and pleasant to read in months. I'd rather that not change.

Indeed, OT has been a blissful a picture of serenity the past week or so. The PS4 and Vita threads have quietly slipped from the top page without an unnecessary thread bump in sight. Also, when you say 'input', do you generally mean press releases and RSS snippets that either harp on the same tired point or fail to make one at all?

Back on topic:

MS getting butchered in the media has forced a 180 has it? Region Free, no always-online, physical media, used games?... Where da shmups at?

Honestly, I still think the Xbone has a slightly more encouraging game line-up than the PS4, it's just a shame they couldn't redesign the thing so it's not the size and weight of a paving slab. I think the PS4's additional power and lower price tag still makes it the tastier console.

List of things dat need to change still:

PS4: redesign the controller so not a dual shock in disguise.
Xbone: redesign the price tag to be $100 cheaper.
PS4: get a better list of launch titles. Team Ico must rise from the gwave.
Xbone: redesign your hardware to be beefier.
Xbone: redesign the console so it's not big and ugly

[AntiFritz]

When they said region free did they even mean in regards to games? I was under the impression they meant region free as in the xbox one isn't restricted to those 21 countries and that it will work out of region.

EDIT: Oh it probably is region free, I read the source myself "Xbox One games will be playable on any Xbox One console -- there will be no regional restrictions."

[Wonderbanana]

Regarding power - I know hardware wise it looks to be PS4 with the edge - but does anyone know much about what difference MS's cloud system makes in this regard?

I have heard that Titanfall for example is using this for enemy AI or something. Could this system actually mean we are looking at the whole power issue incorrectly or does it in reality make little difference?

[trap15]

Clown computing is just a dumb buzzword thrown around to make something sound high-tech and advanced or whatever. If they're actually handling AI in the cloud, I can't even begin to describe how terrible the game will behave
The only time 'the cloud' is useful is for things where high latency is meaningless. Which is very few instances for games.

[Jonathan Ingram]

Regarding power - I know hardware wise it looks to be PS4 with the edge - but does anyone know much about what difference MS's cloud system makes in this regard?

I have heard that Titanfall for example is using this for enemy AI or something. Could this system actually mean we are looking at the whole power issue incorrectly or does it in reality make little difference?

The whole cloud thing is strictly PR talk. It came into existence after it`d become known that there was a considerable gap in power between the PS4 and the Xbox One. Instead of releasing the system specs sheet Microsoft opted for regurgitating the same inane BS about the infinite power of the cloud and the advantages it brought to gaming. It was also used as a justification for the Xbone`s system wide online DRM.

Technically, any internet-connected device is capable of "cloud gaming", even the current gen consoles. However, this thing about offloading AI calculation to some distant servers strikes me not so much as impossible, but rather as woefully impractical and ineffective.

[Wonderbanana]

Technically, any internet-connected device is capable of "cloud gaming", even the current gen consoles. However, this thing about offloading AI calculation to some distant servers strikes me not so much as impossible, but rather as woefully impractical and ineffective.

Noted.

One area where MS has been strong though is their infrastructure of servers.

This video is quite interesting: (Titanfall devs): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F8kI_kWIMk

[trap15]

One area where MS has been strong though is their infrastructure of servers.

Yes, like how news.xbox.com failed over for at least an hour after they announced they backpedaled

[Marc]

Have to say that the XB1 launch line up is more appealing to me than that of the PS4's. Won't be buying either at launch though so it's irrelevant. And I don't think MS are done yet, as this is being implemented by a day one patch, it can always be rolled out again once they have a large customer base all invested heavily in the machine. Sadly, by the end of next gen, gaming will probably be fully digital no matter what.

[system11]

Have to say that the XB1 launch line up is more appealing to me than that of the PS4's. Won't be buying either at launch though so it's irrelevant. And I don't think MS are done yet, as this is being implemented by a day one patch, it can always be rolled out again once they have a large customer base all invested heavily in the machine. Sadly, by the end of next gen, gaming will probably be fully digital no matter what.

Fuck digital.

We can keep fighting it - until other media goes fully digital (they've been trying with music for years) there's no reason games should be.

[cstle]

Especially when games are so huge, perhaps the biggest data rates of any medium (HD movies can be compressed to acceptable qualities in smaller-than-Bluray file sizes, even if they aren't as good, games don't have that freedom unless they want to compromise their high res textures they dump so much money into, which they won't do) and only getting bigger. Infrastructure in most places (including the US, which isn't going to improve any time soon because the companies don't give a shit) sucks too much to make downloading dozens of gigabytes convenient for purchased things.

The digital future is gonna take awhile to get here, no matter how much technofetishist bloggers like the folks at Gizmodo and The Verge say it'll arrive on Saturday.

[e_tank]

i'm all for digital only as long as it's drm free and i can access and backup the files however and wherever i want. drm is pointless, just look at the android/ios app markets, pretty much every app is available cracked and yet most people don't pirate their software. the main goal of drm is not to stop people from pirating, it's to force legitimate users to buy the same thing over and over again. drm isn't even necessary for that though, if they wanted to be dickish they could sell digital goods drm free and tell people they have 10 days to dl and save it locally, since most people don't backup their stuff they'll probably have to buy it again anyway at some point.

We can keep fighting it - until other media goes fully digital (they've been trying with music for years) there's no reason games should be.

but music practically is fully digital now and the vast majority of it is drm free, and thanks to sites like bandcamp flac/uncompressed digital will hopefully start to become the norm. the music industry had to be dragged kicking and screaming into giving up drm, the games, movies, and ebook markets will be harder (each for different reasons) but i at least have a little hope it can be done in time. if all else fails buy legit first, to support the creators, and then just use a cracked version. (although you'd be sending a stronger message if you refuse to purchase it in the first place, by ignoring or simply pirating it)

[Wonderbanana]

Not saying I agree with this but an alternative view: http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-go ... -514411905

[trap15]

An incorrect view

[Jonathan Ingram]

just look at the android/ios app markets, pretty much every app is available cracked and yet most people don't pirate their software.

With all respect, this is not even remotely true. I know this is anecdotal, but I`ve never met anyone who didn`t have their iPhone jailbroken/didn`t pirate apps for iOS. The thing is so easy to install, there`s really no reason not to.

[charlie chong]

i think i've got an erection from imagining friendly's emotional torment at this news
if he bricked his ps3 with the update i may actually ejaculate

[e_tank]

just look at the android/ios app markets, pretty much every app is available cracked and yet most people don't pirate their software.

With all respect, this is not even remotely true. I know this is anecdotal, but I`ve never met anyone who didn`t have their iPhone jailbroken/didn`t pirate apps for iOS. The thing is so easy to install, there`s really no reason not to.

maybe i'm wrong, i agree there def are a lot of people who do, but stats have shown that even in china the number of jailbroken iwhatevers (which doesn't _always_ mean piracy, my ipod touch is jailbroken but i have no pirated apps) is less than half and dropping.

[njiska]

just look at the android/ios app markets, pretty much every app is available cracked and yet most people don't pirate their software.

With all respect, this is not even remotely true. I know this is anecdotal, but I`ve never met anyone who didn`t have their iPhone jailbroken/didn`t pirate apps for iOS. The thing is so easy to install, there`s really no reason not to.

maybe i'm wrong, i agree there def are a lot of people who do, but stats have shown that even in china the number of jailbroken iwhatevers (which doesn't _always_ mean piracy, my ipod touch is jailbroken but i have no pirated apps) is less than half and dropping.

Same here. My iPod Touch 4 has been jailbroken since the day I bought it, but I have never pirated any software. In fact the only thing that my jailbreak is used for is non-app store software and even then I have little of it installed. Even of my friend's with iPhones, all are jailbroken, but it's really only used for homebrew.

[system11]

just look at the android/ios app markets, pretty much every app is available cracked and yet most people don't pirate their software.

With all respect, this is not even remotely true. I know this is anecdotal, but I`ve never met anyone who didn`t have their iPhone jailbroken/didn`t pirate apps for iOS. The thing is so easy to install, there`s really no reason not to.

What, you mean aside from being honest and paying for things you use? This is going along with the incorrect assumption that jailbreak=pirate.

[Ed Oscuro]

A lot of people seem to be disappointed at the loss of the Family Sharing plan's disappearance, which they were anticipating would let them pay a fraction of the amount of a full game library, and it would let them use their international networks of good friends to set up a rotation. But I am suspicious this would've been anything but a nasty free-for-all with players trying to game and scam each other:

- Depending on implementation, Family Share would have either allowed only one or at most two people to play at the same time. In a group of 10 gamers, if everybody takes a week to play a game, you might have to wait anywhere from 5-9 weeks to play a game you want, if you happen to come at the end of the rotation, and there's only one copy available to the group. (5 weeks would be if one copy of the game isn't locked to the "default owner," which seems unlikely).
- Sorry bro, I was supposed to buy Ryse II? Spent it on hash. I'll be good next week, bro.

At the very least it seems like, even amongst friends, there will be some intense negotiations about who gets to play what when, and probably some synchronization to buy games all at the same time so there are enough games in circulation for everybody to play.

[ZellSF]

Not saying I agree with this but an alternative view: http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-go ... -514411905

Welcome to page 33, you know, last page where I posted this.

I didn't even bother to post the many, many reasons it was a ridiculously stupid article. Professional trolling for clicks or they were paid for Microsoft for their earlier articles and don't want to coincidentally change their opinion on the day Microsoft changes their policy.

There's no way in hell that's an honest opinion.




Edit: I pay for Android software, digital downloads of music provided it's DRM free and in FLAC format and physical music CDs. Physical all the way for TV/Movies, though I have paid for one month of Netflix. I go for DRM free copies of PC games whenever possible which is actually very frequently: the best PC games are available DRM free. It's only newer AAA titles that are locked down and they're usually not worth playing.

Continuing, no idea how this relates to the topic: I buy eShop, PSN and XBLA games but I opt for physical copies whenever possible (Tokyo Jungle is getting one soon btw) and I'm a PS+ subscriber.

[drunkninja24]

A lot of people seem to be disappointed at the loss of the Family Sharing plan's disappearance, which they were anticipating would let them pay a fraction of the amount of a full game library, and it would let them use their international networks of good friends to set up a rotation. But I am suspicious this would've been anything but a nasty free-for-all with players trying to game and scam each other:

- Depending on implementation, Family Share would have either allowed only one or at most two people to play at the same time. In a group of 10 gamers, if everybody takes a week to play a game, you might have to wait anywhere from 5-9 weeks to play a game you want, if you happen to come at the end of the rotation, and there's only one copy available to the group. (5 weeks would be if one copy of the game isn't locked to the "default owner," which seems unlikely).
- Sorry bro, I was supposed to buy Ryse II? Spent it on hash. I'll be good next week, bro.

At the very least it seems like, even amongst friends, there will be some intense negotiations about who gets to play what when, and probably some synchronization to buy games all at the same time so there are enough games in circulation for everybody to play.

And apparently the whole "family sharing" thing was merely for timed demos of the games you have:

http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/1250 ... -must-read

[Ed Oscuro]

Thanks for the link! Speaking of Jim Sterling, somebody linked this:
http://www.destructoid.com/an-industry- ... 6643.phtml

[Wonderbanana]

Not saying I agree with this but an alternative view: http://gizmodo.com/the-xbox-one-just-go ... -514411905

Welcome to page 33, you know, last page where I posted this.

I didn't even bother to post the many, many reasons it was a ridiculously stupid article. Professional trolling for clicks or they were paid for Microsoft for their earlier articles and don't want to coincidentally change their opinion on the day Microsoft changes their policy.

There's no way in hell that's an honest opinion.




Edit: I pay for Android software, digital downloads of music provided it's DRM free and in FLAC format and physical music CDs. Physical all the way for TV/Movies, though I have paid for one month of Netflix. I go for DRM free copies of PC games whenever possible which is actually very frequently: the best PC games are available DRM free. It's only newer AAA titles that are locked down and they're usually not worth playing.

Continuing, no idea how this relates to the topic: I buy eShop, PSN and XBLA games but I opt for physical copies whenever possible (Tokyo Jungle is getting one soon btw) and I'm a PS+ subscriber.

Ah, sorry. I don't read your posts.