PS4 / Xbox One console war

[powersoul]

This next generation is likely one of the most important ever. The decisions consumers make will determine the future of our hobby. If people gobble up the XBoner despite all it's faults, it will send a message to Manufacturers and Developers that we'll take all the constant DRM, etc.... If it dies an ugly death (and hopefully humbles EA and Ubisoft) then it will send a message that we won't take that crap.

And you thought DRM saga for Blizzard's Diablo 3 was bad enough a lesson for all these companies.

[trap15]

I think that kind of stuff is great. It's nice to see game companies engaging in devious marketing tactics to undermine the competition, reminds me of them old days.

SEGA DOES WHAT NINTENDON'T

[BryanM]

Is it kind of sad that I get all of my game news now from Matt Lees?

It just seems to integrate better with my demographic. Of being a jaded old fart.

Devs are such predictable evil bastards.

Sure you can get a graphics card for $100-200 that will perform well, but it definitely wouldn't "smoke" the XBO

Maybe it would.

Anyway, in a year or two DDR4 will be widely spread and affordable, and lord knows when that CPU paradigm shift is finally coming. The worst time to buy anything is <--- now ---> imo.

(And people make a big deal how the PSX4's GDDR4 will provide ~4% more frames per second over the XBoner some of the time. DDR4 humbles them both. By a magnitude slightly higher than any 4%.)

These consoles, no one has ever paid so much to gain so little. It's really all about the consumer churn.

[Ed Oscuro]

lord knows when that CPU paradigm shift is finally coming. The worst time to buy anything is <--- now ---> imo.

Intel's probably a year away from releasing any CPU that supports DDR4.

DDR3 modules right now will get you to 16GB, under $200, and at the 2400 MHz speed. The situation here isn't dire.

Faster and denser RAM will be nice but the CPU manufacturers still appear stuck producing CPUs that are merely incremental upgrades over what's previously released.

It's a fine time to buy CPU hardware, especially if people are using this Osborne Effect thinking that leads manufacturers to drive down prices to make sales.

Right now the big upgrades for most commonplace tasks are in SSDs and video cards, and these gains are pretty much independent of any platform shift.

(And people make a big deal how the PSX4's GDDR4 will provide ~4% more frames per second over the XBoner some of the time.

You mean PS4's GDDR5, and you shouldn't ignore that using GDDR5 has allowed the PS4 to dedicate more die space to processing tasks, rather than data movement and caching. Talking about 4%, even if that is the figure, is chatting up a number which is less than relevant in the real-world situation.

DDR4 humbles them both. By a magnitude slightly higher than any 4%.)

"A magnitude slightly higher than 4%," nice.

These consoles, no one has ever paid so much to gain so little. It's really all about the consumer churn.

We'll see how it turns out. I think the current gen is getting a bit dated and I'd like to see how the new systems are going to hold up in relation to what's come before.

$400 isn't really that expensive in comparison to what came before. The PS3 and 360 were a huge leap over the previous generation but the PS3 was far more expensive - the 360 selling for more than the PS4 when you take into account inflation.

I agree that you get less for your money towards improvements, if you are relatively up-to-date, not only in consoles but microprocessors. The reality is that hardware and the market are relatively mature now, and consoles circling back to Intel is just the latest shakeout.

Calling it "consumer churn" may be reasonable but these have been long-lived consoles, especially compared to many consoles of yesteryear. The SNES was considered "outdated" by 1995, and was introduced no earlier than 1990. If people buy it, I don't see that it's anything but an unwritten agreement between all parties to push ahead after a successful iteration.

For people who are looking forward to 4K displays and the like, I don't see either console really delivering stunning performance there. We'll see if that impacts the longevity of the systems. However I think it's clear that it's too expensive to cut generations short, so we will probably again have long console generations.

[CMoon]

For people who are looking forward to 4K displays and the like, I don't see either console really delivering stunning performance there. We'll see if that impacts the longevity of the systems. However I think it's clear that it's too expensive to cut generations short, so we will probably again have long console generations.

Not to take this too far off-topic, but I have been wondering if this next gen would benefit from waiting another year (2015 instead of 2014). I'll pick on the PS3 instead of the 360, but effectively that console is only 7 years old. Once developers figure out the new hardware, maybe the games will really deliver something far more impressive than the current gen...and perhaps it doesn't help that I don't play multi-player games with tons of shit going on at the same time. I start thinking there is a fear that if the opposition feels its time to get a new console out, we also have to do it too, even if technology wise, waiting a year or two would result in a better console.

Graphic wise I'm still really impressed with current gen, but I was saying that about the end-of-run ps2 games as well.

[spoot]

This next generation is likely one of the most important ever. The decisions consumers make will determine the future of our hobby. If people gobble up the XBoner despite all it's faults, it will send a message to Manufacturers and Developers that we'll take all the constant DRM, etc.... If it dies an ugly death (and hopefully humbles EA and Ubisoft) then it will send a message that we won't take that crap.

And you thought DRM saga for Blizzard's Diablo 3 was bad enough a lesson for all these companies.

It was a great lesson. Everyone bitched and whined and then it still sold hand over fist.

[system11]

For people who are looking forward to 4K displays and the like, I don't see either console really delivering stunning performance there. We'll see if that impacts the longevity of the systems. However I think it's clear that it's too expensive to cut generations short, so we will probably again have long console generations.

Not to take this too far off-topic, but I have been wondering if this next gen would benefit from waiting another year (2015 instead of 2014). I'll pick on the PS3 instead of the 360, but effectively that console is only 7 years old. Once developers figure out the new hardware, maybe the games will really deliver something far more impressive than the current gen...and perhaps it doesn't help that I don't play multi-player games with tons of shit going on at the same time. I start thinking there is a fear that if the opposition feels its time to get a new console out, we also have to do it too, even if technology wise, waiting a year or two would result in a better console.

Graphic wise I'm still really impressed with current gen, but I was saying that about the end-of-run ps2 games as well.

In terms of how things look when not running, I think we're about as far as we can get on 1080P. However, Sony have mentioned the new horsepower should result in more games running at 60fps, and that's a very big deal if it comes to fruition.

[CMoon]

Seraphim 17 sounds in on the stupidity of Microsoft's used game policy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlVvDeNeI-0

Here's an XBox lover saying Microsoft has already lost this console war. Wow!

[Teufel_in_Blau]

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/06/11/ ... e-in-asia/

It seems Asia will get their Xbox late 2014 with an upgraded Kinect Sensor that will work in small rooms.

[EmperorIng]

Just knowing our [ie genre enthusiasts] luck, the next five Cave loli shmups will be released exclusively for the Xbox One.

[trap15]

Even if they do, I still won't buy it. Fuck letting the NSA always spy on me with fucking always-on Kinect.

[EmperorIng]

They might get the wrong ideas with all those hours clocked in looking at the Deathsmiles 3 gallery.

[Teufel_in_Blau]

Even IF, MS will probably just ban your IP from playing the game anyway, think Nescia.

It is really weird. On one site we are way more connected and global in many ways, on the other site we are getting artificial walls left and right. This is my biggest complain with all these internet nonsense. I fear the day of 100% digital entertainment. There might be a scenario were the only way to get my Japanese media fix will be only via illegal ways.

[dcharlieJP]

Xbox One games are for activation and distribution only in specified geographic regions. See game package and/or retailer product information, for each game’s specific geographic regions.

From the official Xbone preorder page at MS.

[Ed Oscuro]

In terms of how things look when not running, I think we're about as far as we can get on 1080P.

Many of the new titles out barely get 60fps on their highest settings, at 1080p, on a GeForce Titan, or a GTX 780 3GB. (Examples.)

I'm not too worried about anti-aliasing, but many shader-heavy games are still very slow, even if you factor in a fast AA algorithm (like SRAA) or do away with it altogether. Some modern games also seem to have an unhealthy fascination with depth of field effects, too.

There's also the possibility of doing ray-traced games sometime in the future. I doubt very much that the current gen or even its successor generation will get any ray-traced titles but I'd say that 1080p is probably going to be with us a good while longer.

Even if they do, I still won't buy it. Fuck letting the NSA always spy on me with fucking always-on Kinect.

Kinect actually can be turned off. Eurogamer puts it nicely:

The only positive thing in the whole document is confirmation that you can turn off Kinect and its data will never be uploaded without your permission. Let us all applaud Microsoft's "OK, fine!" decision not to intrude on our privacy.

[Drachenherz]

This makes me really warm and fuzzy inside...:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/12/play ... ulus-rift/

Couple it with this:

http://www.engadget.com/2013/06/11/ocul ... set-hands/

And then imagine a future when the consumer-version of the rift is released, having a device at hand that is capable to display a constant 1920x1080 image at 60hz...

PS4 + Oculus Rift = paradigm shift in video gaming?

[Teufel_in_Blau]

Imagine playing Mushihimesama 3 with Oculus Rift. " All those purple bullets are coming at me!!"

[dcharlieJP]

wakka wakka wakka wakka.... oops.

I'm not too worried about anti-aliasing, but many shader-heavy games are still very slow

1080P/60fps doesn't catch everything as you mentioned - shaders can be sacrificed as can AA and other effects in order to hit the target. But yes - PC 1080P/60fps with all the Ultra settings isn't going to be the same as 1080P/60fps Console.

also need to notice that a Titan hits 30fps at x3 1080P (albeit width only) , also depends on the engine - Bioshock infinite hits 60fps on Ultra settings a 580, on a Titan that's 120+ fps + all the effects, MSAA x 2 (?) etc - but again , i don't think that's particularly the point you are making.

Given the AMD equivalent chips, 1080P should easily be doable but then we get down to the usual trade offs - the same design choices are going to be there : sacrifice resolution for frame rate etc etc. That said , with X1 weaker, but still running (apparently) Battlefield 4 at 1080P 60fps (with tradeoffS) then there's no reason we can't have 1080P/60fps - it's just that some companies won't do it to improve what they can get out at 720P.

I agree that 1080P is with us for a while - also i believe that HDMI 2.0 would be required for 4K/60fps so i assume that, given that PS4/X1 need to be rated -now-, then not sure what will happen. Both GPUs may well be able to output 4K but not sure what will happen in terms of cabling to a TV (HDMI is -forward- compatible? I assume not, but...) :/

data will never be uploaded without your permission

lol - watch the agreement to let them upload the data be in the TOS.

[Ed Oscuro]

lol at the clueless goomba typing away at the XboxSupport Twitter feed..."we're sorry you feel the need to know if your console will be usable. If you want to buy an expensive paperweight, we'll be here." And Microsoft will be selling it at a loss! How noble of them! This way, everybody can be greatly pleased together.

Your post reminds me - 720p really ought to be killed off, but then companies will be sacrificing 1080p @ 60Hz for 1080p @ 30Hz and some extra glitter.

Also ditto what Roo said on the last post, although given this is X86 hardware and a one-chip solution from AMD, I'd be surprised if it had even as much lag as the PS3.

[CMoon]

Oculus Rift

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBylGcvRuek

I hadn't heard of this before, but man that seems amazing. Toss in some great headphones and a feed tube and who needs the outside world?

[Cuilan]

Well, there seems to be at least one bit of good news...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=585726

Still, it's best to wait & see how this works out before getting excited.

[Udderdude]

Do you still need the physical disc in order to play it, even if you're on the person's list? If so, it's just more inconvinence over the Sony game sharing method ("Thanks!")

[dcharlieJP]

Given Sony went from 5 shares of digital games down to 2 after complaints of lost revenue from developers, then MS going to 10 people being able to use the same digital copy from the cloud seems -extremely- unlikely , but yeah - lets see. The Devil is in the details no doubt.

[system11]

More concerned about the long term playability of titles than sharing - and that demands that games not be tied to a console or account.

[CMoon]

My only issue with the Occulus rift is that it would only really work with games in first person--and I really like 3rd person games. Still, it would undoubtedly take 1st person games to a completely different level.

[Drachenherz]

Well, it probably wouldn't be as immersive as 1st person view, but I can see myself playing 3rd-person view games with the rift, looking like a spectator over the shoulder of the protagonist.

I used to play the Assassins Creed Games with Nvidias 3D vision, and even with the "standart" stereo 3D, the effect was just mind-blowing...

[Jeneki]

Xbox One games are for activation and distribution only in specified geographic regions.

I sure hope this doesn't mean what it sounds like it means. Yay, even more hoops to jump through just to "activate" import games.

[system11]

You won't want to import anything since the Japanese don't appear to be part of their plans anyway.

Simple solution - buy something else.

[Jeneki]

Yea, you're probably right that someone living in North America won't have anything to import. I was thinking more along the lines of people in other parts of the world. I know how difficult it can be for me at times, so I have to imagine it's even worse those in areas that have extra importing restrictions, and now they have yet another hurdle to deal with.

[Udderdude]

Good response to the ridiculous "Used games are hurting the industry" nonsense .. http://www.destructoid.com/used-games-a ... 6227.phtml