shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Fri May 25, 2018 8:53 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:24 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2011
Posts: 2224
Updated OP With 1.5 changes, translated by Sapz!
_________________
I miss the hype-days of saidaioujou.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:37 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1063
Location: Florida
Credit-fed 360 Mode on Laser and Expert to see what they did with Hibachi/Inbachi. Laser patterns are significantly more difficult than shot, but still not as hard as Arcade. Unfortunately (or fortunately, if you're not a masochist), Expert has the same Hibachi/Inbachi as Laser. =(
_________________
<trap15> I only pick high quality games
<trap15> I'm just pulling shit out of my ass tbh
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:24 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 2649
Location: ND, USA
So how important is the bomb max bonus in this game? It showed Maximum in DFK too but I don't recall it doing anything; is it worthless this time around too?
_________________
Restart Syndrome::
Shmup leaderboards and pic/replay hosting! | My score history on RS


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:37 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 1161
Location: Casino - London
I've never really bothered chaining in a DDP game so apologies for the noob question. For arcade mode, how do bees effect score and what does the % mean when you pick them up?
_________________
Image
http://www.1ccgames.com
XBL: durango76uk
PSN: durangodan76


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:38 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1063
Location: Florida
Yeah, I'm going to sound like a retard, but I'm not getting some of the scoring mechanics in not-360 mode(s).

Chaining? Got it. Don't drop chain. Not terribly difficult in this game.
Bombing? That's bad. Try not to do it. Definitely try not to autobomb. Easy to understand.
And I get that picking up bees adds to your hyper based on your HIT counter at the time (so early bees give fuck-all for hyper meter, but if you've chained the whole stage, the last few can really boost it). I'll second Dan's request for info on scoring - sometimes they seem to have a base score x HIT counter, and sometimes I see them with a %. Yay, confusion.

...And that's about all I'm getting. Hypers seem to build very slowly for me, and I don't know when I should be using them. Better to use them as you get them? Better to wait until Lv6+? Why one or the other?

If someone could do a write-up of Arcade Mode (bonus for 1.5... list of the changes is nice and all, but an explanation of the overall "flow" would be awesome) like I did for 360 Mode, I will love you long time. I want to be awesome at this game someday, dammit (and I'd also like to be able to easily explain it to the few RL friends I have that are interested in playing it).
_________________
<trap15> I only pick high quality games
<trap15> I'm just pulling shit out of my ass tbh
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:59 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 21 Mar 2012
Posts: 1057
Location: AZ, US
Yeah, the above are what I'm really interested to learn from an ST/guide more than anything else. To be specific:

- An idiot's guide to scoring (what's most important to your score, what's least important, and what you should avoid doing)
- A basic rule of thumb for when to use hypers and what effect your hyper level has
- How hyper recharging works
- Anything else important that may not be immediately apparent (for instance, I've read that using hypers on bosses increases the rank more than normal)
- How any of these things differ in 1.5, if it would change the optimal strategy

Just a humble request for any experienced player who's kind enough to share some information on the topic.
_________________
Image
twitch.tv/CloudyMusic | twitter | scores


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:27 am 


User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 2401
Location: Tokyo
CptRansom wrote:
Hypers seem to build very slowly for me, and I don't know when I should be using them. Better to use them as you get them? Better to wait until Lv6+? Why one or the other?

Generally, you want to only use them when you have a lot, like 10. You'll get more points than using one hyper at a time, plus it will keep the rank down (10 hypers at once raises the rank by 5, 10 hypers one-at-a-time raises the rank by 10). Note the multiplier that goes into effect when using hypers: it's at x3.0 when using 10 hypers and only like x1.0 when using 1 hyper.

Even if you don't care about the overflow, top players I watched in the arcades wouldn't use hypers until the third stage mid-boss, then wouldn't use them again until the beginning of stage 5. During that stage they would use them often because they could time the recharges and would thus be using 6 or 7-level hypers each time.

Keres wrote:
- How hyper recharging works

You want to time it so that your hyper ends while you're sucking in a lot of medals. It's easiest to do with those bullet-canceling tower things in stage 5, but will take some trial-and-error and superplay studying to make sure you get your timing right.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:34 am 


User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1063
Location: Florida
You're a scholar and a gentleman, sir.
_________________
<trap15> I only pick high quality games
<trap15> I'm just pulling shit out of my ass tbh
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:42 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 11918
Location: Wherever.
Incredibly stupid question: is there any notable disadvantage to turning Autobomb on? In DFKBL doing so prevented you from stocking Hypers and thus limited your scoring potential quite a bit, but here I'm not sure what, if anything, is "exchanged" for a one-shot "free" screw-up. I'm rather curious to know, since this thing is kicking my kiester like nobody's business, heh.
_________________
"The prior government did it, but the present government, for some reason I can’t figure out, is covering it up."
Glossary / Discussion / The Bizaar / Vasara HS


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:45 am 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 7314
Location: San Jose, California, USA
My understanding is: autobomb will completely kill your chain in arcade/1.5 (compared to manual which only reduces it), and it'll reduce the counter by 2000 instead of 1500 in 360 mode.
_________________
Image
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:54 am 


User avatar

Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Posts: 324
Location: Gilverado
trap15 wrote:
it'll reduce the counter by 2000 instead of 1500 in 360 mode.


Also, autobombing kills the chain in the 360 mode. If you manual bomb then you only lose 30% of the chain.
_________________
My Youtube Channel | Xbox: Tyjet Poison | My Scores


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:18 am 



Joined: 26 Feb 2013
Posts: 83
BulletMagnet wrote:
Incredibly stupid question: is there any notable disadvantage to turning Autobomb on?


Other than the chain-breaking aspect of the autobomb, the only other disadvantage is you have less bombs to work with than with "OFF". Each time you die with "OFF" you get an extra bomb in your stock, and with Shot type, after a few deaths, you have 6 bombs for each of your last few lives, which is very helpful. I find it easier to clear the game with OFF because you can just bomb your way through the last stage and the last boss. But if you don't die much and/or you are shooting for a Hibachi clear, ON seems to be the way to go as it's more helpful at the end of the game.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:17 am 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 11918
Location: Wherever.
awo wrote:
But if you don't die much and/or you are shooting for a Hibachi clear

I can state with the utmost confidence that neither of these even remotely apply to me, heh.

Thanks to all for the clarification. :)
_________________
"The prior government did it, but the present government, for some reason I can’t figure out, is covering it up."
Glossary / Discussion / The Bizaar / Vasara HS


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:29 am 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 1161
Location: Casino - London
I've managed to do the hyper refill thing in arcade mode, is anyone else pulling this off? It was tricky, but if I can do it it can't be too difficult - and it's mighty satisfying!

On stage 2, slightly before the midboss there is a bee that appears top right. I've found that hitting a hyper as that bee appears will generally trigger the refill from the midboss. It's like Deathsmiles as you can slightly adjust the damage / speed to make it synchronize.

Also, I've got this game running on a tated 4:3 monitor but can't see any problems with it - hope the patch doesn't screw it up...
_________________
Image
http://www.1ccgames.com
XBL: durango76uk
PSN: durangodan76


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:47 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 1250
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Finally got my copy, it was shipped to work so I just get to stare at it for the rest of the day.

I can't decide, should I start off with Arcade or 1.5?
_________________
Image
1CC List To miss is human; to rank control, divine.
Quote:
“Fly to live and shoot ‘em all!” – Manabu Namiki


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:54 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Posts: 318
Location: MN, USA
It's hard to tell, but does the "reduce fighter" option actually decrease your hitbox size like it does on the iOS ports? Or is it just the sprite of the ship? My friend claims that the hitbox remains the same size.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:30 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 1101
Location: Denmark
I have a question regarding reduciton of the chain. I'm having fun with Novice mode trying to 1cc it, and I noticed something odd in stage 3. I activated a lvl9 hyper just before the midboss appears, that battleship thing. My chain rocketed to about 3600 by the end of it and I kept lasering the midboss and shooting popcorn enemies. I didn't get hit (autobomb), die or use another hyper and all of a sudden the chain dropped to 2400?

Why did it do that?
_________________
Image
[Twitter] - 1upDK
[Twitch.tv] - 1_upp
[YouTube] - Jacob"1up"Spring


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:20 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1063
Location: Florida
If your chain gauge bottoms out for even a split second outside of a hyper, you take a 30% hit (during a hyper, you lose it all). Stage 3 fucks me on this in several places after the midboss when I'm lasering a larger enemy and don't get to a popcorn or another larger enemy fast enough.
_________________
<trap15> I only pick high quality games
<trap15> I'm just pulling shit out of my ass tbh
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:06 am 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 3426
Location: Southern Ontario
awo wrote:
[Each time you die with "OFF" you get an extra bomb in your stock, and with Shot type, after a few deaths, you have 6 bombs for each of your last few lives, which is very helpful.


I'm pretty sure it works like Daioujou does too in that your bomb stock will NOT increase if you happen to die during a hyper. It's only when you die in a non-hyper state that you'll get +1 to max bomb stock (max 6 Shot, 4 Laser, 2 Expert).
_________________
YouTube Videos
1CCs / Restart Syndrome scores


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:06 am 



Joined: 26 Feb 2013
Posts: 83
BareknuckleRoo wrote:
awo wrote:
[Each time you die with "OFF" you get an extra bomb in your stock, and with Shot type, after a few deaths, you have 6 bombs for each of your last few lives, which is very helpful.


I'm pretty sure it works like Daioujou does too in that your bomb stock will NOT increase if you happen to die during a hyper. It's only when you die in a non-hyper state that you'll get +1 to max bomb stock (max 6 Shot, 4 Laser, 2 Expert).


Nope, bomb stock still increases even if you die during a hyper. I just spent 30 seconds trying this out in Stage 1 to confirm.

On another topic, I posted some stuff about mode differences in a blog post. Feel free to post any of it in the OP.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:20 am 


User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2009
Posts: 1063
Location: Florida
Thanks for the awesome write-up, awo! That cleared up quite a bit. :D
_________________
<trap15> I only pick high quality games
<trap15> I'm just pulling shit out of my ass tbh
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:15 am 


User avatar

Joined: 02 May 2012
Posts: 1037
Random fun facts that I'm not sure have been recorded yet:

* Inbachi is not selectable in Novice practice mode. This leads me to believe that Inbachi is not in Novice mode, since you can select her in Arcade/1.5 practice modes. This, I'm sure, surprises zero people.
* In 360 mode, the Hibachi/Inbachi fights are exactly the same in both the Laser/Expert modes. Also, these fights are not the same as in Arcade/1.5, no matter what shot mode you pick.
* In 360 practice mode, you can't select Inbachi. However, if you select Hibachi, you fight Inbachi immediately after. So, I'm not really feeling the point of this particular restriction.

Just some stuff I came across while fucking about in the various Practice modes. :V
_________________
Trigonometry Wars 4
My Little Pegasus: Kizuna DoPonyPachi
Trigonometry Wars 3 Redux: The Revengeoning


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:33 am 



Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 8
Can anyone clarify why big stars drop if kill certain enemies with shot instead of laser? Is this certain enemies only or is there some mechanic which explains why it is this way? Easiest example is stage one for the first the big four big planes that appear next to the first bee. If you kill them with shot they drop big stars. If you kill them with laser they give nothing.

Another example is those turrets that appear on the left of the first small tanks at the very beginning of stage one. If you kill them with shot they give mid sized(?) stars. If you kill them with laser you only get small stars.

EDIT: After trying out different things I have no idea anymore. Sometimes all four ships drop big stars, and sometimes one will not drop anything. Some times the first ship of the next set of big ships drops a big star and sometimes it doesn't. I'm really confused


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:03 am 



Joined: 26 Feb 2013
Posts: 83
@why:

I'm not sure, but I think you need to kill them with shot when the top of the combo meter flashes yellow (specifically, a little rectangle on top of the combo meter lights up in yellow). Sort of like how you got large gems in Mushihimesama Futari when the combo gauge was in the red.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:16 am 


User avatar

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 1101
Location: Denmark
Maybe the midboss has invulnerability during the first explosion when you hit the mark in the healthbar? I kept lasering during that explosions but maybe I didnt hit anything?
_________________
Image
[Twitter] - 1upDK
[Twitch.tv] - 1_upp
[YouTube] - Jacob"1up"Spring


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:59 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 3426
Location: Southern Ontario
1up wrote:
Maybe the midboss has invulnerability during the first explosion when you hit the mark in the healthbar? I kept lasering during that explosions but maybe I didnt hit anything?


There's a few cases in the Pachi games where midbosses and stage enemies get invulnerability as they appear onscreen or phase transition (you can keep hitting them with laser to keep your chain, basically). I've had my chain drop there too, and I think the issue is that extra enemies take a while to appear if you speedkill the st3 midboss. It seems best for your chain to keep the midboss alive as you get through that section, by not hypering or using a lower level hyper?
_________________
YouTube Videos
1CCs / Restart Syndrome scores


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:28 pm 



Joined: 09 Jan 2011
Posts: 1119
Location: Finland
awo wrote:
I'm not sure, but I think you need to kill them with shot when the top of the combo meter flashes yellow (specifically, a little rectangle on top of the combo meter lights up in yellow). Sort of like how you got large gems in Mushihimesama Futari when the combo gauge was in the red.


Indeed. You get more/better stars the higher your combo meter is. Shot kills raise it more than laser kills too.
_________________
Image


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:21 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Posts: 1010
Location: Toronto
Here are my SDOJ translations.


360 mode

- Characters and story


Arcade/1.5 mode


Story


The work of the Element Doll is ultimate assistance for their master.

Orders are being communicated to DonPachi.
Attack target: “Destroy and silence the computer system of the ‘City of Ideal”.
The primary objective is to destroy the computer system in the deepest region.
The computer governs the City of Ideal.
The “City of Ideal” has a computer that governs the city so that the people can have peace and be in harmony with the nature, precisely as an ideal world.
Reason for attack: “Eliminate the ‘mechanized planet people’ that have managed to intrude the planet”.

“Mechanized planet people”
It would appear that they are a threat to the planet. It’s for this purpose that the DonPachi Corps was organized.



I ask Master:
“We have been instructed to eliminate the ‘Mechanized planet people’ however, if this city is destroyed in the process of stopping them, what would the outcome be like?”

Master answers:
“The instructions of our leaders in the DonPachi Corps are absolute. As such, it will be done.”

Combat begins tomorrow morning.

Master, you must return alive.


Ending (without hibachi appearing):


Operator: “Computer system has been confirmed to be destroyed. The mission is over. Please return to base safely.”
???: “Hmmm… despite adding more pressure... you didn't get out of my way already. Seems like there are no more secrets to unleash and as such, there’s nothing else that can be done. Well then. Bye bye.”
Operator: “Wh-,what is this? Just now… the source of the transmission couldn’t be specified…!”

Everyone lived in happiness in the “City of Ideal” thanks to the instructions of the computer that controls everything. By working together, the “mechanized planet people” that had intruded, were annihilated.
Having that said, no evidence had been found that they had entered from the outside. Where in the world had those people come from?

…No, this operation was completed.
I will not think about this. I am of the DonPachi Corps. I fly like a bee from the orders of my leaders.


Shuri:
I thought that this city was at peace but before I knew it, it was armed…
Wasn’t the computer supposed to be perfectly managing the city?
My combat memory… it tells me that this is not the end.
I sense that something is still hiding.
Would you please prepare for the next battle? Master.


Hikari:
That last signal… It came from nearby where we are, however, it felt very different.
I don’t think that I’m imagining things…
Were mechanized planet people over there? It was a very familiar feeling…
Well, I suppose that this operation is still not over.
I will accompany you that time as well… Does that sound good?


Maria:
Master… something… is off…
The mechanized planet people… are they nowhere to be found…?
This is still… unresolved… I have a feeling that this battle will still continue…
But… we will be fighting together again, right? Master…


Ending (Hibachi shot down)


Operator: “Target silenced… An audio signal has been caught from the target. Incoming! This code…! Element daughter…?!”
Hibachi: “Ah… defeated… completely fallen…? Huh? It came to this extent. The mechanized planet people told me about it, I guess… I was told that I would save everyone. That lower body, I thought that I would get used to the other form of my body. Each and everyone in the city made small improvements to it. Wasn’t everything going smoothly…? However, it was all for nothing… For quite some time now, it’s been the form that I wanted to look like… Do your best…!”

Element dolls and element daughters.
Originally there was only one but they transformed into two forms.
Remains of humans who are helping humans.
Existing to do things for upper-class people.
Times change and so did their form, so when fights arose, the unwanted were culled out.
Humans who remains as humans, they seem to be the chosen ones.
In other words, they are the ultimate form.


Shuri:
Much better form, huh…? Ridiculous.
I’m the ultimate form today. I won’t lose to anything. Right, master?
This battle is over. Goodbye…
However, another battle will soon begin somewhere else in this world.
But in the next world, master will fight with me. Sounds good?


Hikari:
That child, I think it was acting on its own.
If that’s so, then the end result has become a sad thing as its energy and behavior would be very, very valuable. Does that child also have a master…?
The more that we talked, the more I wondered if we could become friends…
…Master. Please be with me forever…


Maria:
I.. I exist to always assist master…
In whichever form he may be in, I will have my original master.
That will never change, despite the many other changes that will continue for an eternity.
Don’t forget that.


















Last edited by pestro87 on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:28 am, edited 6 times in total.

Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:26 am 


User avatar

Joined: 02 May 2012
Posts: 1037
... So, guys. What in the shit ARE the requirements to fight Hibachi/Inbachi? I know Inbachi requires silly shit like NMNB Everything, but it's a combination of that and several other things, right?
_________________
Trigonometry Wars 4
My Little Pegasus: Kizuna DoPonyPachi
Trigonometry Wars 3 Redux: The Revengeoning


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GD: DoDonPachi Saidaioujou
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:32 am 


User avatar

Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 254
Location: The Feline-Elven Land of Beauty, Lamani
You are only allowed to die once, and get a Bee Perfect (collect all bee items) on at least 3 stages, there are 8 bee items on each stage.
Once you beat the Stage 5 boss with those requirements, "Hibachi" should appear. Bombs are allowed to be used too.
You can start off by doing this on Novice and see if those requirements will help you reach her, then you can try it on the Arcade modes as well.
_________________
Rebecca Loveheart - Love & Snuggles~ <3
[ TrueAchievements | PSN Profile | Youtube | LiveStreaming ]
Giest118: SDOJ is great and the port will also be great.
moh: play games. they're fun.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group