New monitor or TV

[N64Fan]

I bought an Elgato Game Capture HD for console capturing and it outputs lagless pass through to a TV only via HDMI. Currently I have an Asus VH236H and a Sony KDL-40V4000. I'm concerned with input lag and the VH236 has 8.3ms input lag and the Sony has "between 0-10ms": http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/ ... g-database and http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/sony-kdl ... 822127.htm

The problem is the Elgato outputs retro consoles with what I think is 240p HDMI which most TV's cannot register. My Sony recognizes this as 480i HDMI but my Asus will not show any video. The screen size of my Sony is just a bit too big for my viewing distance so I am wondering if anyone knows of a TV or monitor (with speakers) that is sub 1 frame of input lag that is around the 24-32" range that will at least register the retro consoles as 480i over HDMI.

Thanks

[Ji-L87]

I don't think the Elgato really supports retro consoles at all. As far as I understand, that AV in is just there so that one can record from the PS3 as well, since it's HDMI output is locked down in some way. Your best bet is probably to place a scaler solution between the retro console of choice and the Elgato. This will have the added benefit of also letting you keep your low lag displays.


Oh and, built in LCD TV speakers are the stuff of nightmares. Be concerned about sound too!

[eightbitminiboss]

The retro support they tout is limited to composite and S-Video actually.

http://support.elgato.com/index.php?_m= ... cleid=4577

[Fudoh]

I wouldn't bother. The lag ratings for your displays for for progressive signals only anyway. If you feed 480i HDMI to your Sony you end up with considerably more lag.

And - come on! - converting composite 240p to 480i HDMI ? That's ridiculous!

[N64Fan]

Oh and, built in LCD TV speakers are the stuff of nightmares. Be concerned about sound too!

I'm not too fussed about audio quality. I can live with my SNES at 480i on my Sony and as long as I can hear the game, I am fine. I only really care about the "captured" video.

I might actually look into some scaler solution such as a DVD recorder. Maybe I can input 240p S-Video to it and output component or HDMI video at 480p? Are there any cheap recorders I can buy in the UK to accept NTSC video and do this? The one I currently have only does PAL.

I actually just realized, won't a DVD recorder introduce more lag? How on earth is a person meant to capture retro systems and play lagless on a budget? The only solution so far seems to buy a Dazzle with passive splitters and use a CRT.

[Ji-L87]

How on earth is a person meant to capture retro systems and play lagless on a budget? The only solution so far seems to buy a Dazzle with passive splitters and use a CRT.

Well, I was going to suggest splitting the signal but you already mentioned it. Not sure why you would have to buy a Dazzle though, as you're already sitting on a fine piece of capture hardware (been hunting the elgato myself, but always gets outbid). And also not sure DVD recorders are that good for scaling, even if they *do* upscaling. In this case, they're probably most useful as external combfilters if you happen to use composite cables. As for scaling solutions, there are threads around this here hardware section for that sort of thing and good sites like this also exist.

But again, I'd suggest not bothering with pass through and instead split the signal. If you're after a no-lag solution for retro gaming, few things beats a CRT monitor. But it's usually a space and weight issue.

Edit:
What cables to you use for your retro systems, anyway?

[N64Fan]

Thanks Ji. Only reason I brought up a DVD recorder was that this person used SNES and N64 S-Video to component 480p with a similar capture device and it looks decent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgBbJxdCI0k

This would also give me a progressive image to negate the issue Fudoh said earlier. However, I have read that DVD recorders have slight input lag that is impossible to defeat so I am stuck as to what I can do with retro consoles.

So you think my best option would be a splitter and feed the Elgato and a CRT simultaneously? Maybe I can get used to the additional lag of 480i on my Sony.

The cable I am currently using is the official Nintendo S-Video cable.

[Fudoh]

If he outputs in 480p from a DVD recorders he's looking at a minimum 34ms extra delay on top of this display. Very likely even more.

If you really need zero lag for the gaming part of the setup (or at least zero lag on top of the display's lag), your only options are a CRT or a XRGB-3 via VGA to one of your displays.

[N64Fan]

Sorry but I am still confused about this. I wish technology was simple.

So the lag ratings for my Asus monitor are only for "native" resolution (1080p)? So supplying it with 480p Wii from the Elgato will be scaled and introduce more lag?

Do you have an estimate as to the 480i image input lag of my Sony? This stuff requires way too much time and effort that I am just considering sticking with my Sony and I'll compensate for any additional lag in skill.

[Fudoh]

Scaling (480p or 720p to 1080p) usually isn't an issue and maybe increases the lag by 1-2ms. But deinterlacing (= feeding 480i or 1080i) takes time. Usually increases the lag by at least 2 frames, sometimes more.

[kathy]

Scaling (480p or 720p to 1080p) usually isn't an issue and maybe increases the lag by 1-2ms. But deinterlacing (= feeding 480i or 1080i) takes time. Usually increases the lag by at least 2 frames, sometimes more.

Probably a silly question Fudoh, but how would running soft 15khz with mame on a good crt compare to an arcade cab running a pcb with regards to lag?

[Fudoh]

The card or the monitor won't introduce any lag. With MAME it's very different from game to game and from version to version. 2 to 7 frames I would say. Some versions (like ShmupMAME) try to achieve lower lag to get as close to the PCBs as possible.

[kathy]

thank you for that

[N64Fan]

Scaling (480p or 720p to 1080p) usually isn't an issue and maybe increases the lag by 1-2ms. But deinterlacing (= feeding 480i or 1080i) takes time. Usually increases the lag by at least 2 frames, sometimes more.

Oh that's perfectly fine. I thought it was going to be like 1 or 2 frames.

I'm guessing no amount of "game mode" on my Sony can improve the 2 frames? I think my best case scenario atm is my Asus for 480p and 720p then possibly a CRT with HDMI for interlaced stuff.