MS-DOS Memories

[lilmanjs]

Police, Space and Hero's Quest. Iceman was decent.

Wolfenstein. I still have the Wolfenstein 3.5" iD handed out at a local convention, ~1 year prior to retail.

Blood II - greatest weapons in a FPS. voodoo doll, black hole gun, phantasm ball

They did release the Police Quest series(not sure when) in a boxed set that was supposed to work with WinXP. I saw it twice and never bought it and I really regret it. I had fun as a kid playing police quest and police quest 2.

[hail good sir]

young

[Edmond Dantes]

Police, Space and Hero's Quest. Iceman was decent.

Wolfenstein. I still have the Wolfenstein 3.5" iD handed out at a local convention, ~1 year prior to retail.

Blood II - greatest weapons in a FPS. voodoo doll, black hole gun, phantasm ball

They did release the Police Quest series(not sure when) in a boxed set that was supposed to work with WinXP. I saw it twice and never bought it and I really regret it. I had fun as a kid playing police quest and police quest 2.

There were in fact THREE Police Quest collections.

The first was called "The Four Most Wanted" and included PQ 1-4, including both the original and the remake of part one, and printed documentation.

The second was "Collection Series" (Sierra had a large line of this--PQ was one of them). It was the Four Most Wanted, but also included SWAT and appropriate documentation.

The third was after Sierra got bought out by Vivendi Universal. This is the same as the Four Most Wanted, except... it only included the remake version of part one, and it's "designed to work in WinXP" only means that it includes a pre-configured DOSbox (supposedly this version actually WILL NOT work on an actual MS-DOS machine). Also, all the documentation is on-disc, as PDF files.

Personally, I own the Collection Series release and am quite happy with it.

Now, remind me to check my car's tires before leaving the police station.

[Ed Oscuro]

SkyRoads should be up everyone's alley who likes arcade style games. It was made free to download by the original devs, so no reason not to try it out.

Oh really? I'll have to go get that.

TastyStatic is a nice update to the idea. Runs natively on new Windaz.

Nice collection of stuff I missed, ObiWan. I've recently re-acquired Outlaws, just forgot to actually get around to trying it out.

@ null: I've only played Gateway II out of all the Legend adventure games, and it wouldn't really surprise me if it was a high-water mark for them.

I've got a new copy of Police Quest around here somewhere.

Any thoughts on Quest For Glory series? I've just got the second game out of that series. I've been meaning to go through the other remakes of the King's Quest games; I played the remake of the first around the end of last year.

[Edmond Dantes]

Any thoughts on Quest For Glory series?

Yes, PLAY THEM.

In fact, pretty much anything by Sierra Online pre-sellout is good. King's Quest, Space Quest, Leisure Suit Larry... hell, just everything. In the battle between LucasArts and Sierra, I was always firmly Sierra.

(That's not to say I dislike LucasArts though... The Dig is a must-play)

I've never played any of these unofficial fan-remakes that some groups have been pouring out though. I need to sometime. But the originals (or the Sierra-authored remakes) were a huge part of my childhood. I learned all sorts of lessons... such as you can defeat a Yeti by throwing a pie at it, you can make baby antwerps by holding your sword straight up (and they're CUUUUUTE), and that sometimes you can get the sound effects to work by lying to the game and telling it you have a Thunderboard when you really have a Soundblaster.

Lately, my PC gaming has revolved around the Heretic and Hexen series (in fact, what inspired this topic was my recently acquiring Heretic II and Hexen II at a local Goodwill). After I'm done, I'll need some mods.

Heretic II... I remember a lot of people hating this back in the day, but it actually isn't so bad. The point of derision seems to be that it incorporates Tomb-Raider-esque platforming elements. It still plays like an FPS though (despite being third-person)

[Ed Oscuro]

The lack of love Heretic II gets is kind of baffling. It's not as pretty as I used to remember (at least, as I remember from my impression the last time I played it some years ago), but at release it did look better on systems (I used to feel that some games looked better with crisper pixels - before the filtered textures that are standard today - and this probably still is true for some games). The weapon set isn't too bad, although I wish they'd tightened up combat - it's trying to be half Hexen, half something like Xbox-era Ninja Gaiden, and it's honestly not doing either incredibly well. But for the time period, it's not a bad effort at all. I do feel it starts to lose steam late in the game, and the endgame is deserving of ridicule. A fun story - during development, they discovered that they were duplicating effort on coding some of the weapon effects (particle trails for example) and had to tighten things up to prevent that. Mainly, I think this represents a failed chance to take the series in a new direction. I prefer Ninja Gaiden for this kind of thing, including for setting, but that series arguably has lost its way now too. There are some moments where the art shines through the veneer of unimaginative standard fantasy and FPS-style puzzle trappings, and it reminds me why I respect this game.

Hexen II...yeah, my copy of that game came from a Goodwill too. Just a disc that came along with somebody's PC. I actually prefer this one to Heretic II, in part because of the retention of the first-person perspective, in part due to the really trippy architecture. I've seen it criticized as a blundering first effort with badly-proportioned areas; this may be true but it lends some charm. Good textures here too - and with the relatively simple architecture the brilliant 2D work at Raven can shine through. I weep that they've gone to shiny normal and bump mapped DOOM III style maps recently; hopefully that'll change.

I haven't played through all the characters in Hexen II; Assassin (lol, why is she dumber than the fighter?) is really tough to play as at times, in large part due to the trickiness of using the grenade weapon. The bosses are horrendous damage sinks. The mod adds a new character; nothing too imaginative but still a refreshing new way to play. The mod's settings are very nice and I think the Tibet-inspired area gives you a nice feeling of progression and you're ready to wrap up the outing after that. Just having the feeling of satisfaction when you're done is something I wish more of these titles would have stuck with.

Despite my feeling that DOOM is somewhat plodding at times, I never really felt the same way about the original Heretic. One thing it's got going for it is that I always found the settings more imaginative and interesting, and it felt like the game tackles a somewhat smaller range of environments with more variety and cohesion than DOOM did. Nowadays...I probably don't like the environments so much, but there's still a few levels which remain favorites. The weapons, even though they're little changed in functional aspects from the DOOM originals, have a better balance of ammo available for my play style. Of course, this is the game that introduced the Tome of Power - from the time I started playing I've simply hoarded them for bosses, so many of the upgraded attacks simply don't get used in the usual playthrough (gotta love that super stave bash though, and the giant fire mace balls). Of course, the only way to play this is to get the five-episode version. I forget how well the two last episodes stack up, but I remember that the first three, at least, have many classic moments in them.

Hexen mods...I think Deathkings is somewhat less quality than the original game, and the original game is odd to play at times. Not bad, but it represents the most unorthodox way of approaching the FPS / adventure hybrid seen in most of these other games - in large part because of the reliance on melee attacks for two out of the three characters. Argh, Maulotaurs.

Speaking of Raven Software, the Elite Force games and the first two Soldier of Fortune games (I haven't played the newest SoF game, Payback or whatever it's called; it's by somebody else) are interesting enough. Especially in Elite Force II you can see they treated the license with great care, and it's a real gift for fans of Star Trek: Voyager. Soldier of Fortune games, meanwhile, tell a cohesive story and things are pretty much wrapped up by the second part in a way that seems to preclude a sequel - kind of a melancholy feeling when you get done, and I also don't really get what the last part of the story was really supposed to accomplish. Lots of good stuff in there, but not as many chances to really let loose with the huge range of toys as I'd like.

I also have two or three CD-ROM copies of CyClones for some reason. For whatever reason I always rather liked the architecture in some areas, and that soundtrack is so amazing it doesn't matter how dated it is. Again, could've done with a few different choices of direction for the control scheme and the weaponset, and of course in many places the architecture veers away from "quirky" to "empty and square."

[Edmond Dantes]

You wouldn't happen to also have a spare copy of Heretic: Shadow of the Serpent Riders or Hexen: Deathkings, would you? (Actually, I'm about to order those off Amazon... they're the only games in the Heretic series I don't have).

I agree about Hexen though... even though I blasted through it in a marathon session about three years ago, it does tend to drag when you've killed all the monsters and are just wondering where you're supposed to go next. Having the same vibe with Hexen II so far, but the world has enough mysteries in it to keep me entertained... now if only my cat would stop sitting in front of the monitor...

Changing gears real quick... I still can't beat Wing Commander...

[MadScientist]

Bunch 'O Classics pictured here;

http://i0.wp.com/information2share.file ... -games.jpg

[louisg]

Oh! I just remembered a couple games I used to play: God of Thunder, a competent Zelda-like. Epic Pinball, a Pinball Fantasies clone (and, par for the Shareware course, the free table is the best one). There was also Extreme Pinball.

Other stuff? I think someone mentioned Screamer already, but I have to give that one props too. It's somewhere between Daytona and Ridge Racer. I believe it had a sequel that was like Sega Rally. And let's not forget Scorched Earth! Freeware classic.

I don't see a lot of those Amiga ports mentioned too. There were some quality ones: Lotus III, Fire and Ice, Lemmings, and the mostly-intact Turrican II come to mind. Seriously, if you haven't played Lemmings for a while, you owe it to yourself-- I booted it up the other day and it holds up great. And I know this is a shmups board, but there's no shortage of great RPGs and strategy games like the original Civilization, Breach II or The Incredible Machine.

Ahhhh, nostalgia. Don't get me started

BTW has anyone tried those Flying Tigers games, speaking of shmups?

[CMPXCHG8B]

No love for the Crusader series? No Remorse and No Regret were downright amazing.

Favourite MS-DOS games:

- Command and Conquer
- Command and Conquer: Red Alert
- Crusader No Remorse
- Crusader No Regret
- Descent
- Descent II
- Duke Nukem 3D
- Earth 2140
- Fallout
- Grand Theft Auto
- Mass Destruction
- Pro Pinball: The Web
- Pro Pinball: Timeshock!
- Pro Pinball: Big Race USA
- Quake
- Raptor: Call of the Shadows
- Star Wars: Dark Forces
- Syndicate
- Syndicate Wars
- System Shock
- Warcraft
- Warcraft II
- wipE'out" (the original was an MS-DOS game)

Favourite Windows 3.1 games:
- SimCity 2000 & Urban Renewal Kit
- Marble Drop

Favourite Windows 95/98 games:
- Homeworld
- Homeworld 2
- Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2
- Command and Conquer: Tiberium Sun
- Millenium Soldier (also known as "Expendable")
- Dark Reign
- Total Annihilation
- wipE'out" 2097 (also known as "Wipeout XL")
- Simcity 3000
- Dune 2000
- Descent 3
- Quake 2
- Unreal Tournament
- Deus Ex

Most (all?) of that stuff will run under an emulator (DOSBox or Boxer) or virtual machine (VMware Workstation or Fusion). There's some other stuff I could list (C&C Generals, Halo, Doom 3, Quake 4, Mechwarrior 4, Act of War, etc)- but none of that stuff is playable unless you've got access to a reasonable PC with a half decent video card for the most part.

By far, the two Crusader games are my all-time favourite games, full stop. If you haven't played those, play them. It's basically a real time third person shooter, with a metric truckload of weapons, awesomely designed levels, brilliant music and sound FX, and some pretty decent full motion videos (like, live videos, none of this in-game CG generated cutscene shit we've got today).

-CMPX

[Ed Oscuro]

Crusader was listed in MadScientist's post.

I bought a copy of Crusader for PSX a long, long time ago, and it looked like it'd been dragged through the dirt for 20 years...should've been practically new but it never played right. I gotta pick those up again. Sadness. I knew it was quality but it just conked out before I could get too far.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Is Re-Loaded any good? I found Loaded on Saturn a bit more playable than Project Overkill by Konami, but local co-op was obviously meant to be its selling point and I didn't get to try it out.
Which version of Micro Machines V3 is better: PC or PSX? (As for Moto Racer I say go play it on PC.)

[ZellSF]

Since Heretic II was mentioned: anyone playing that should keep save backups.

Not the genres OP was asking for, but these need to be mentioned:

Dungeon Master
Eye of the Beholder
Lands of Lore
Master of Magic
Master of Orion
X-COM: UFO Defense

[CMPXCHG8B]

Crusader was listed in MadScientist's post.

I bought a copy of Crusader for PSX a long, long time ago, and it looked like it'd been dragged through the dirt for 20 years...should've been practically new but it never played right. I gotta pick those up again. Sadness. I knew it was quality but it just conked out before I could get too far.

Ugh.

Do yourself a huge favour and play them on a PC next time. GOG is selling both for $6/piece, and it's well worth the price for either. They both run under a variant of DOSBox (basically GOG's bundled version of DOSBox on Windows, and Boxer on Mac).

The PSX and Saturn ports of No Remorse were kinda crappy. The animation wasn't as smooth on the PC and the whole thing lagged like hell under heavy action. The music didn't sound the same either- it was lacking fidelity and tended to chop when the game was loaded down. Also the controls sucked, both games made pretty decent use of the keyboard and on the higher difficulties you often need to switch equipment on the fly (rather then toggling through stuff one by one).

No Regret wasn't even ported to the console, so you don't have a choice if you want to play that one. IMHO; Regret was better then Remorse, but both are extremely polished games.

-CMPX

[SuperDeadite]

As a kid it was NES, the my parents got the might IBM Aptiva 486DX2. That was my only computer until university when I got a Pentium 4. I did upgrade the 486 with an Overdrive clone and more RAM.

Ultimate Doom was the first game I had, still remember spending weeks learning how to run it. Doom still holds up well imo. But you must play on Ultra Violence or Nightmare, and need to customize the controls a bit. Also had Dark Forces, and then came Descent. Now that game blew me away and still does. Used to play Descent II over Kahn, I'd probably find it unplayable today. Syndicate and Z were other favorites. Much later when PC Gamer released the "classics CD" I was hooked on Ultima Underworld, though had no idea what I was doing and never got too far lol.

One of my greatest loves were space combat sims. X-Wing CD was my first, then TIE Fighter CD, and Privateer. Nobody makes games like these anymore. Truly a lost genre.

Ironically, I've been playing through quite a few of these recently on my FM Towns as I finally got my HD setup working again. Just played through Syndicate and Wing Commander. Both still hold up great, had a blast. Next up is Alone in the Dark and D&D Stronghold. I've never played Stronghold, but the graphics look awesome imo. After that I want to finally play through Ultima Underworld. Seems weird that I'm playing all this Western stuff on my Towns, but way easier then messing around with DOS Box.

[Edmond Dantes]

One of my greatest loves were space combat sims. X-Wing CD was my first, then TIE Fighter CD, and Privateer. Nobody makes games like these anymore. Truly a lost genre.

And a genre I still suck horribly at -__- Although I recently bought a Microsoft Sidewinder, so maybe that'll help me kill some Kilrathi.

Or is Wing Commander I generally just a hard game and I'm too stubborn to notice?

By the way, I just remembered that a month or two ago, I wrote a list of PC games I own physical copies of. I'm gonna post that list, for the sake of sparking discussion (and if anyone wants to offer trades... I'm looking for a CD-ROM edition of Wolf3D: Spear of Destiny). Note though that I haven't updated this list in awhile, so its missing some games I own (namely Heretic II and Hexen II).

Come on! Let's all share our lists!

Here's my list:

These are all games I own legit, physical copies (disk or CD-ROM) of. NO DOWNLOADS.

Allied General
Alone in the Dark
.....also includes Jack in the Dark
Alone in the Dark 2
Alone in the Dark 3
Amber: Journeys Beyond
Blake Stone: Aliens of Gold
Command and Conquer: Windows 95 Edition
Command and Conquer: The Covert Operations
Command and Conquer: Red Alert
Command and Conquer: Red Alert - Counterstrike
Command and Conquer: Red Alert - The Aftermath
Dark Seed
D!Zone 2 (levels for Doom and Doom II)
Diablo
Diablo II
Diablo II Expansion: Lord of Destruction
The Dig
Doom: Collector's Edition
.....Ultimate Doom
.....Doom II: Hell on Earth
.....Final Doom
.....originally included a preview disc of Doom 3 stuff, but I lost that.
Duke Nukem 3D
Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition
Dune 2000
Elder Scrolls: Arena CD-ROM Edition
Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall
Fallout: A Post-Nuclear Role-Playing Game
Fantasy General
Flashback: the Quest for Identity CD-ROM
Forgotten Realms Archive, The
.....Pool of Radiance
.....Hillsfar
.....Curse of the Azure Bonds
.....Secret of the Silver Blades
.....Pools of Darkness
.....Eye of the Beholder
.....Eye of the Beholder II: The Legend of Darkmoon
.....Eye of the Beholder III: Ruins of Myth Drannor
.....Dungeon Hack
.....Gateway to the Savage Frontier
.....Treasures of the Savage Frontier
.....Menzoberranzan
Gabriel Knight: the Beast Within
Half-Life Adrenaline Pack
.....Half-Life
.....Team Fortress Classic
.....Opposing Force
Half-Life Platinum Pack
.....same as above, except also includes Blue Shift
Jagged Alliance 2
Jagged Alliance 2: Unfinished Business
The Journeyman Project Turbo
King's Quest Collection Series
.....King's Quest: Quest for the Crown
.....(contains both the original and the later remake where the Rumpelstiltskin puzzle actually makes sense)
.....King's Quest II: Romancing the Throne
.....King's Quest III: To Heir is Human
.....King's Quest IV: The Perils of Rosella
.....King's Quest V: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder!
.....King's Quest VI: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
.....King's Quest VII: The Princeless Bride
.....Laura Bow: The Colonel's Bequest
.....Laura Bow: The Dagger of Amon Ra
.....Mixed Up Mother Goose Deluxe
The Last Express
Leisure Suit Larry Collection Series
.....Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the Lounge Lizards
.....(once again, this one includes both original and remake. Not like those crappy sets that Vivendi put out)
.....Leisure Suit Larry Goes Looking For Love in Several Wrong Places (LSL2 for short)
.....Leisure Suit Larry 3: Passionate Patty in Pursuit of the Pulsating Pectorals.
.....(there is no Leisure Suit Larry 4. All known copies were infected with Sludge Vohaul's brainwaves and had to be jettisoned into space)
.....Leisure Suit Larry 5: Passionate Patty Does a Little Undercover Work
.....Leisure Suit Larry 6: Shape Up or Slip Out
.....The Laffer Utilities
Mechwarrior 2: 31st Century Combat
Mechwarrior 2 Expansion: Ghost Bear's Legacy
Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries
Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven
Might and Magic VII: I Don't Remember This One's Subtitle
Myst
Outpost
Outpost 2: Divided Destiny
Panzer General
Phantasmagoria 2: A Puzzle of Flesh
Police Quest Collection Series
.....Police Quest: In Pursuit of the Death Angel
.....(includes both the original and the remake version of the above)
.....Police Quest II: The Vengeance
.....Police Quest III: The Kindred
.....Police Quest: Open Season
.....Police Quest SWAT
Prince of Persia CD Collection
.....Prince of Persia
.....Prince of Persia 2: The Shadow and the Flame
Quake
Quake Mission Pack 1: Scourge of Armagon
Quake Mission Pack 2: Dissolution of Eternity
Quest for Glory Collection Series
.....Quest for Glory: So You Want to Be a Hero
.....(includes both the original and remake version of the above)
.....Quest for Glory II: Trial by Fire
.....Quest for Glory III: Wages of Incredibly Buggy Software That You Need a Fan-Patch to Even Play
.....Quest for Glory IV: Shadows of Darkness
Resident Evil 2 Platinum
Retribution
Risk II
Riven: The Sequel to Myst
Shivers 2
Sonic and Knuckles Collection
.....Sonic the Hedgehog 3
.....Sonic and Knuckles
.....Sonic 3 and Knuckles
Space Quest Collection Series
.....Space Quest I: The Sarien Encounter
.....(this is the good collection that lets you install either the type-in-your-command version or the point-n-click version of Sarien Encounter)
.....Space Quest II: Vohaul's Revenge
.....Space Quest III: The Pirates of Pestulon
.....Space Quest IV: Roger Wilco and the Time Rippers
.....Space Quest V: Roger Wilco in The Next Mutation
.....Space Quest 6: Roger Wilco in The Spinal Frontier
.....Space Quest VII Does Not Actually Exist And I'm Just Seeing If You're Paying Attention, but there is a preview movie for it. Starcraft
Starcraft Expansion: Brood War
Star General
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine - Harbinger
System Shock
System Shock 2
Thief: The Dark Project
Titanic: Adventure Out of Time
Ultima Collection
.....Akalabeth
.....Ultima: the First Age of Darkness
.....Ultima II: Revenge of the Enchantress
.....Ultima III: Exodus
.....Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
.....Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny
.....Ultima VI: The False Prophet
.....Ultima VII: The Black Gate
.....Ultima VII Part 2: Serpent Isle
.....Ultima VIII: EA is a Bunch of Pagans
Ultimate Might and Magic Archives, The
.....Might and Magic: Secret of the Inner Sanctum
.....Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World
.....Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra
.....Might and Magic IV: Clouds of Xeen
.....Might and Magic V: Darkside of Xeen
.....(if installed together, those last two will become a bigger game called World of Xeen)
.....also includes the fan game, Swords of Xeen.
Ultimate RPG Archives, The
.....Stonekeep
.....The Bard's Tale: Tales of the Unknown
.....Bard's Tale II: The Destiny Knight
.....Bard's Tale III: Thief of Fate
.....Bard's Tale Construction Set
.....Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss
.....Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds
.....Dragon Wars
.....Wasteland
.....Might and Magic: World of Xeen
.....Wizardry Gold
Ultimate Strategy Archives, The
.....Sid Meier's Civilization
.....Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon
.....X-Com: UFO Defense
.....Heroes of Might and Magic
.....(unlisted, but Heroes also features an install of King's Bounty)
.....Conquest of the New World Deluxe
.....Jagged Alliance Deadly Games
.....M.A.X. Mechanized Assault and Exploration
.....Dark Colony
Ultimate Wizardry Archives, The
.....Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord
.....Wizardry II: Knight of Diamonds
.....Wizardry III: Legacy of Llygamyn
.....Wizardry IV: Werdna Can't Get Out of a Small Square Room
.....Wizardry V: Heart of the Maelstrom
.....Wizardry VI: Bane of the Cosmic Forge
.....Wizardry VII: Crusaders of the Dark Savant
.....Wizardry Gold (remake of Wizardry VII)
Warcraft: Orcs and Humans
Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness
Warcraft II Expansion: Beyond the Dark Portal
Warcraft II Battle.net Edition
Wing Commander Deluxe Edition
.....Also includes Secret Missions 1 and 2
Wolfenstein 3D
.....This disc is supposed to include Spear of Destiny, but doesn't. Damn. X-Wing vs Tie Fighter
.....my edition also included the expansion, Balance of Power
You Don't Know Jack
You Don't Know Jack Question Pack
You Don't Know Jack Volume 2
You Don't Know Jack Movies
Zork Legacy Collection
.....Zork I
.....Zork II
.....Zork III
.....Beyond Zork
.....Zork Zero
.....Return to Zork
.....Zork Nemesis

[Ed Oscuro]

I installed D-Fend (MUCH nicer than fooling around endlessly with vanilla DOSBox settings, although the scaling options can take a hike, it needs MAME-style non-integral scaling.

Played Chasm: The Rift for a while...it's not the worst thing ever, but it's not really good either. Terrible interface, terrible method of switching between weapons (just one button to mash to frantically cycle through the whole pile of weapons just to get back to the weapon before the one you're using), terrible claustrophobic areas, terrible performance in DOSBox (kind of unavoidable though), terrible weapon selection (LOL at the machine gun model jacked from Unreal ), terrible. I can still get some enjoyment out of it, but not as much as I'd like. 640x480 would be a godsend but I can't swing it without causing the game's performance to drop down to nothin'. Unfortunately we're stuck using Simple or Normal CPU cores, no Dynamic core emulation for this game or you get a crash. I suppose I could play this fairly well on my Pentium box but I don't really care enough.

I am happy to see that I should be able to get Outlaws working great with its patches though (I installed the game to Win7 using a fan installer, but it's kind of a waste because there's still problems and the patches don't install on Win7 - I'll try installing them over the directory in DOSBox and migrating them to the Windows installation first, but I won't be surprised if I'm stuck playing in DOSBox).

[louisg]

Yeah, I didn't know about D-Fend, but Boxer on Mac is a great deal better for games than vanilla DOSBox is. It's crazy how much tweaking we still have to do 20+ years later to get our damn DOS games to work! ;D

Along those lines, I found an Amiga emulator called FS-UAE that's much, MUCH better for games than any of the other UAE variants. Yep, I can now stop mourning the loss of the Fellow emulator. It's worth looking into if you like computer games as a lot of the computer games from the mid-80s up until the Doom era were enhanced on that platform, with some DOS versions being serious downports.

[ZellSF]

I am happy to see that I should be able to get Outlaws working great with its patches though (I installed the game to Win7 using a fan installer, but it's kind of a waste because there's still problems and the patches don't install on Win7 - I'll try installing them over the directory in DOSBox and migrating them to the Windows installation first, but I won't be surprised if I'm stuck playing in DOSBox).

Outlaws is pretty hard to get working nicely on newer computers...

But it's probably easier than figuring out how to run it in DOSBox, since it's a Windows only game.

[Edmond Dantes]

I used to experiment with Virtualizers for early Windows. The only problem (back then) was that they were more geared towards business programs than gaming, and none of them could do DirectX, Glide or OpenGL. That middle one in particular is why I stick to my classic desktop (which has a Voodoo 3 in it).

Granted, I've heard some of the virtualizers are becoming competent gaming platforms...

Someone earlier mentioned that Heretic II players need to back up their saves. Why is that?

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't remember what the deal is with Heretic II. It should be fairly stable with patches, although who knows what it's like now thanks to new Windows systems. I don't think it's likely you will get stuck in unwinnable situations either. Nevertheless, multiple saves is always a good thing.

I am happy to see that I should be able to get Outlaws working great with its patches though (I installed the game to Win7 using a fan installer, but it's kind of a waste because there's still problems and the patches don't install on Win7 - I'll try installing them over the directory in DOSBox and migrating them to the Windows installation first, but I won't be surprised if I'm stuck playing in DOSBox).

Outlaws is pretty hard to get working nicely on newer computers...

But it's probably easier than figuring out how to run it in DOSBox, since it's a Windows only game.

I reckon I've got three choices:

- Install on classic Win95 machine
- Install the patches on XP Mode and transfer over
- Install Windows 95 or some such on D-Fend and then install Outlaws on that

Wolfenstein. I still have the Wolfenstein 3.5" iD handed out at a local convention, ~1 year prior to retail.

That a rare thing? I want to see this.

BREAKING NEWS:

CHASM: THE RIFT IS STILL COMPLETE SHIT!

sorry if that gets a rise outta someone, I just had to get it off my chest. but ffffuck this game so much. it's not good. also fuck art thieves.

[drauch]

I am happy to see that I should be able to get Outlaws working great with its patches though (I installed the game to Win7 using a fan installer, but it's kind of a waste because there's still problems and the patches don't install on Win7 - I'll try installing them over the directory in DOSBox and migrating them to the Windows installation first, but I won't be surprised if I'm stuck playing in DOSBox).

Outlaws is pretty hard to get working nicely on newer computers...

But it's probably easier than figuring out how to run it in DOSBox, since it's a Windows only game.

Yep, one of my favorites. I've played it on multiple OS'; most of theme are a nightmare to run on--at least after you pull out your rifle scope. Oddly enough, it runs perfectly on Windows ME, aka the worst OS that nobody owns.

[Ganelon]

CHASM: THE RIFT IS STILL COMPLETE SHIT!

I'm not really sure why you'd feel that way unless you also hate Quake. The interface was basically ripped from Quake. Switching weapons was just using numerical hotkeys so I'm not sure what you're referring to there. Level and enemy designs always seemed Quake-like to me too. Everything is less inspired but I think Chasm is just fine.

[Ed Oscuro]

The UI? You rang?

yess numerical hotkeys, just what I always wanted! btw this is seen in pretty much the oldest FPSes ever, right back to the Catacomb 3-D games.

oops I can bind a mousewheel to Quake, and the fast weapon switch means a delay doesn't matter. If Chasm had parity with Quake it would implement something better, like, you know, an actual console for binds.

this has jack shit, except for the lousy "next weapon" key, which is also quite slow in part because of the rather laborious weapon presentation / put-away animation (you can continue to cycle and watch the ammo counter, and if you remember how many shots you had or spot the default shotgun, which uses no ammo, you can guess where you are in the cycle - but it's still slow to cycle weapons that way). Take a look at the terrible binds menu in this game, it has about 10 different bindable keys and you can bind EVERYTHING to the same key, which is even worse than not allowing you to clear a key (which is already a pet peeve of mine, along with games not allowing you to bind the del and backspace keys because they have a special function in the binds menu)

But why is this game shit?

Slow performance I can accept given how I'm playing it. What's a problem is that it's not fun.

I am at a place where the magically auto-hitting zombie ranged melee (?!) attacks (SERIOUSLY WHAT THE FUCK IS IT DOING) are hitting me while I try to somehow get across molten lava onto a raised platform (and I can't simply jump over there due to an overhang). I can deal with the zombies in a fascinatingly tense standoff with the assistance of my old friend the intervening wall, but I can't get out across the lava without touching it. I LOVE TAKING FORCED DAMAGE

yes, I admit I hate Quake's engaging enemy designs and behavior, its varied weapon loadout, and its imaginative use of 3D arenas. You have certainly read my mind, you daring videogames connoisseur!

Shambler and Scrag ain't got shit on overgrown scorpions appearing in every level, and The Cheetahmen. Hexen II had enemies which look a lot like The Cheetahmen here, except they actually had some dangerous behavior other than "continually rush and shield bash you to death when you are pushed into a corner and can't maneuver around them"

Every fight devolves into simply ducking around corners repeatedly (i.e. when fighting zombies) or sidestepping / jumping over scorpions or projectiles (i.e. the rocks thrown by those ogre things in the Egypt levels). You can't look up or down very far so god bless if you want to hit something right above or below you. Locational damage just makes hitting enemies more of a chore; I seem to get decap kills against most enemies no matter what, no faster or slower than if I'm actually aiming, and asking me to aim at 320x240 is some kind of cruel joke anyway (though I still can do it). Chasm ain't Soldier of Fortune.

Chasm has switches, keys, (occasionally) switches you shoot and destroy, (very rarely) exciting ceiling-mounted rocks that you drop on switches by shooting them, the famous and unexpected level design innovation of finding weak walls to shoot through, secrets that aren't counted, very boring mostly hitscan-type weapons, no status messages to let you know wtf that squiggly shit you just picked up IS, and supremely engaging flat environments. Chasm has a jump key, but most of the time you just mash up against the invisible ceiling; almost any platforms or open "jumps" you need to make can just be run over, DOOM-style.

I also laugh to think of people trying to have multiplayer with this. Deathmatch, DM with monsters, Cooperative - they've sure ticked all the boxes, right? Well, uh, I guess it's a good thing they built the levels so open so that you can have proper DM in them, right? *runs to the helipad at the end of the first stage, gets a "Level Complete!" message repeatedly until boredom turns me away from the mysterious transparent obstacle*

Look, this game really has next to nothing going for it. It's got a kind of charm (WE LOST THE COMMANDER, rip old buddy, it's a good thing he spent four minutes boring me out of my skull before the first few levels, before they discarded any pretense of a story a few levels in) and is playable after a fashion (would I rather be playing CyClones? Hmm...but how many years newer is CyClones? This game is post-Unreal!). However, it goes beyond "aping" to "blatantly ripping off," but "in a generally reprehensible and incompetent fashion." So now I can't tell which health boxes are mega health and which are normal health, because they all look almost exactly like the huge health bonus from Quake. The logo on human crates from Quake has been slightly modified to fit on various boxes and crates here. The machine gun, as mentioned before, is like some kind of unholy smashing of a Quake nailgun into the model of the Stinger from Unreal, kind of like how the prop guns from Aliens is actually built around a tommygun, except that the dinky peashooter doesn't have any of the charm of either the pulse rifle or its real-world base counterpart.

Worst game ever? No, but this is near the bottom of my list. I found Wolfenstein more fun (up until the infamous "Call Apogee and say Aardvark" maze, anyway). I think the positively horrible levels (that I've seen so far) of X-Men: Ravages of Apocalypse represent a distinct improvement over this, too. Probably the Witchhaven games also.

[Edmond Dantes]

Here's another thing I loooooove about MS-DOS and old PC games in general.

Do you guys ever explore your install CDs, and end up finding weird shit on them?

I did that twice--once with the Ultima Collection, where apparently one of the programmers had downloaded and archived some newsgroup post and its followups. The post was a joke involving an old lady in a butchery and chicken meat that got bigger when hit... you'd have to see it in context, and the discussion was funnier than the actual joke.

Seriously, how does this shit wind up there?

But today, I realized that despite having owned the original Hexen for years, for some reason it was not installed on my PC. I quickly rectified that... and then, on a whim, browsed the CD.

What I found was a folder called "IDSTUFF" which... contained the full versions of other id Software games, but in a bizarre archive format I had never heard of before called mj3. A bit more investigating, and I found out these were a proprietary, encrypted archive of sorts, and you were supposed to order by phone and get a special number to enter which would allow them to unpack and give you installation files. Well, I doubt that phone number still works, so..

... You know what, you guys know what I want to ask next, but I'm not sure if its against the rules or not, so I won't ask. (Feel free to answer, though!)

[Ed Oscuro]

haha, that thing about the chicken meat sounds familiar. I'm sure I've seen it, since I own that game.

mj3 is just 1/4 of a mj-12. "Majestic...majestic..." Hey, stop talking to random people, you bum.

But in all seriousness, try copying the mj3 and renaming its file extension to .exe and try it out. You should see something interesting.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

The only games that I remember playing on dos were Warcraft II, Scorched Earth, and Quake 1. I'm guessing that I really missed out on some great games.

[Edmond Dantes]

The only games that I remember playing on dos were Warcraft II, Scorched Earth, and Quake 1. I'm guessing that I really missed out on some great games.

Yeah you did, on the other hand Warcraft II is one of the best games ever made.

I don't even really like RTS games and I consider Warcraft II one of the ten best games ever made, that should say something.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

The only games that I remember playing on dos were Warcraft II, Scorched Earth, and Quake 1. I'm guessing that I really missed out on some great games.

Yeah you did, on the other hand Warcraft II is one of the best games ever made.

I don't even really like RTS games and I consider Warcraft II one of the ten best games ever made, that should say something.

Yeah, I played the crap out of Warcraft II also. I remember being disappointed when they changed the series from RTS.

[Edmond Dantes]

I'm still disappointed. It honestly irritates me when Warcraft is associated more with a stupid MMO rather than the good RTS games.

Although it sounds like Warcraft 3 brought the mythology in some pretty lame directions too (I never played it, I heard it secondhand).