Saviors - Released in Steam and v1.5

[n0rtygames]

and perhaps even Ouya. Anything else is pretty much a no-go, I think.

D'ya really think Ouya is going to take off? I'm unsure.

[DrInfy]

D'ya really think Ouya is going to take off? I'm unsure.

I think it mostly depends on two factors:
1) How well the marketplace will work and how hard it is to hack that console into a cheating and pirating machine. Another problem will be filtering decent games out of all the trash that'll end up in the marketplace.
2) What Microsoft and Sony are going to do. There were rumors about next Xbox requiring always-on internet connection and not allowing used games. If those rumors end up being true, I will refuse to buy that Xbox no matter how good it is or how good exclusive games it has.

I'd say the potential is certainly there and I would love to see it succeed, but I'm not placing any bets on it.

[nasty_wolverine]

why only xbox? is it really that hard to get games onto psn? just curious, xbox seems to have a much wider game selection, even though you have to pay for xbox live.

anyway, this game looks really cool, I might give it a try.

There's no way we could afford a real development kit for any console. Besides I'm the one doing most of the heavy coding work and I really can't program at all in C/C++. I've used managed languages (Visual basic, Java & C#) ever since I was 10 years old and I'd say that I'm rather effective with them. There is no working C# solution for PS3 as far as I know and I think I can get the game just barely running on Xbox360 at playable frame rates. It might be possible to port the game to Linux and mac using Monogame and perhaps even Ouya. Anything else is pretty much a no-go, I think.

the step from C# to C++ is very small, quite small compared to java or basic to C++.
I learnt C++ then moved to C# because i found C++ a bit tough to understand.
While learning C#, i noticed you could do alot stuff in C++ faster and easier, its a steep learning curve, but once your on top of it, you ll find new found powers of programming.
been doing stuff in C++ last two years and never looked back. check out SDL, basically offers write once deploy on any platform at native speed.

But yeah the biggest problem is getting a devkit, it ll cost you an arm and leg, also arms and legs of all your friends and family.
It goes something like this, if your asking how to get a devkit, your probably not gonna be able to get a devkit.

[DrInfy]

While learning C#, i noticed you could do alot stuff in C++ faster and easier, its a steep learning curve, but once your on top of it, you ll find new found powers of programming.

I've found that just the ability to change code on the fly while debugging saves countless of hours and I've learned to do my programming relying on this simple fact. Also I find the code a lot more readable in C# and the last time I checked, the tools were a lot better for C# (intellisense in Visual Studio and such). I'd rather not make the switch and I really hope Monogame or ANX or something else will keep C# game programming alive, because I like being efficient.

Anyways, about Saviors... I kinda wanted to make one more beta demo build, but we're running out of time and so the next build has to be the release version. It took way too long to optimize the game to run properly on Xbox360, but it's running at 60 fps now (just barely and you can still see fps drops if you let the screen get filled with stuff in insane on purpose). I had to disable replays for the Xbox version as it's multithreaded to hell and back making it rather impossible to make any input replay work in a predictable way. Generally you probably shouldn't need to multithread a shmup to make it run, but it's a different story when your draw is taking +10ms out of 16, unit update is taking 6ms and physics is taking another chunk of 6-8ms in some of the worst case situations, with particles and other stuff adding another +6ms on top of that. After optimizing them as much as I could. I've basically done nothing but optimizing for the past three weeks, but I'm satisfied with the result as I didn't need to drop visual quality at all and the game runs at 60 fps even at 1080p without any problems.

I also decided to revert my decision to make the game 120 fps on Windows and as a result of making it run at 60 fps and the optimizations, it now runs perfectly smooth on even some low power laptops with integrated graphics (at least with low particles, no AA and bloom off). Windows version is still single threaded and still has replays in it.

While I was making optimizations I also adjusted some of the settings for the explosions. They are now a bit smaller, a bit shorter, more detailed and less like flashes of light. Thanks for pointing out the duration, I think that reducing the explosion duration made the game look more awesome, while obviously performing better at the same time. Also there won't be 4:3 support. Don't have the time to do a remake of the HUD and having HUD elements inside the play are would make it rather difficult to see incoming warning icons. Buy a wide screen TV/monitor instead of living in the stone age!

In comparison to older versions it's a bit more easier to take enemies down especially with low multiplier, reducing the necessity of using secondary weapons to take stuff down. The first stage is also shorter allowing the player to experiment with the secondary weapon without instantly running out, if its usage wasn't near perfect. I have no idea why I had made the first stage one of the longest stages in the game in the first place. :p

[nasty_wolverine]

Also I find the code a lot more readable in C# and the last time I checked, the tools were a lot better for C# (intellisense in Visual Studio and such).

Code readability, fine C# does look a little neater but correct formatting of C++ makes it quite readable too. Personally i have never had a problem with readability. And, about tools, C/C++ is the industry standard, so there are a lot more tools for it than C#
Anyway, i did use C# and it is quite charming, very easy to get stuff done fast, my first attempt at trying to write an engine was in C#. I switched to C++ because i just found it easier to do things in it. i still use C# for small tiny projects.

Also, all up for the windows release and replay support. will love to pick this up when it comes out!!!

[DrInfy]

Uhm... Right... It seems like the Xbox Live Indie Games release won't be happening after all. You can make a App Hub account from Finland and you are able to use it like normal, but you can't sell games from it. Seriously Microsoft, screw you. It's not like it was a serious setback, but we did put quite a lot of effort into the Xbox version and it is fully functional and should easily pass any nasty peer reviews.

Luckily the Windows version is the better version, also finished and ready for launch, which will happen as soon as possible.

Release trailer

[DrInfy]

The game is now available for Windows for 6.99$ on
our website
desura

I'm pretty happy the game and I personally have never got tired of playing it. Something I can't really say of any of the Cave shmups and I really hope other people find the game as enjoyable as I do. I really want to see someone brutally own insane arcade score attack some day.

[Reiko]

Grats on getting your game out there. Just bought it, I'll let ya know what I think later on since I'm a bit too tired to play a game right now. I'm glad it charged me $7 AUD and not USD since our dollar went down (or USA's dollar went up?) which would have cost me an extra 30 cents haha.

[DrInfy]

Updated the game to version 1.1. I really have no idea what I was thinking when I made those fonts with ridiculous gradients and colored shadows. Luckily that was rather easy to fix.

[system11]

What was changed in the newest patch?

May be a coincidence - my laptop has had a problem with overheating for a few years now, but Saviors ran fine on it. Since the patch it gets hotter and the frame rate drops massively when the protection kicks in. Added more explosions?

[DrInfy]

What was changed in the newest patch?

May be a coincidence - my laptop has had a problem with overheating for a few years now, but Saviors ran fine on it. Since the patch it gets hotter and the frame rate drops massively when the protection kicks in. Added more explosions?

Sorry for not noticing earlier. Can you give me some system specs (CPU/GPU)? The base fps was changed back to 120fps from 60, because it just felt smoother and the game should still run on the minimum requirement system. I also did test on my laptop and it wasn't using even 50% of the hardware power. You can use this 60fps executable for now to temporarily fix the overheating issues.

Other changes in the 1.2 include:
- bug fixes
- bug fixes with replays
- black bullet glow (because it looks better than any of the old ones)
- help menu that explains most of the game mechanics in different game modes.

[system11]

It's not a power problem, it's a cooling problem with my laptop (GPU paste needs re-doing probably). However, until it started to cook the game was really running much the same as it did at 60. Given that most displays are still refreshing at 60 anyway, there's little point in running at 120 anyway.

[DrInfy]

Given that most displays are still refreshing at 60 anyway, there's little point in running at 120 anyway.

If it was perfectly timed to match the synchronization of the monitor, then yes, you would be correct. After some testing, I can safely say that timing in XNA is pretty horrible without V-sync. I did some testing with V-sync on and that felt absolutely horrible, which means there are two options left to fix this: Increase the frame rate to minimize any stutter/screen tearing or write my own timing logic. I'll probably create my own timing logic at some point, but for the moment it's probably not worth it.

[DrInfy]

Updated the game to 1.3, it's now 60 fps with v-sync. Made some balance changes on later stage bosses and made difficulty descriptions to better match their actual difficulty.

[DrInfy]

Updated Saviors to 1.4. This should be the final update, unless the game gets a Steam release at some point. Also the sound track is now included in Desura and the package that we sell from our website.

After all the hassle with the Max FPS, decided to just throw the option of playing with whatever feels comfortable. 60, 120 and 180 are available. The game is basically the same on all of them, but it feels a lot smoother on higher frame rates (especially with a 120hz monitor). Replays run at the whatever fps they were played originally.

Another major change is the arcade mode. Decided to give a player a small rechargeable shield in arcade mode, simply because it makes the game more dynamic. The shield can take 1 or 2 hits before fading, but it allows momentary aggressive plays when it is up, without spending years practicing optimal routes. This ultimately makes arcade mode a lot more fun, while also reducing the difficulty level a bit allowing newer players to have fun playing the arcade mode.

There was also an annoying bug, caused partly by XNA content management system, that makes the game crash if you alt tab after playing more than ~40 minutes, but that should also be fixed now.

[DrInfy]

Saviors - Released in Steam:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/314450/

Includes fixes, online leaderboards and a Linux version.