MS-DOS Memories

[Edmond Dantes]

Hey guys, what were some of your favorite MS-DOS games? (Also including Windows 3.1 and Win95, because hell if I take thread titles seriously)

I just felt like maybe we could wax nostalgic. And then I could fire up my classic desktop and show it some love.

Lately I've really been into first-person shooters. Are there any awesome DOS-based ones that I might've overlooked? (I've played Wolfenstein, Doom, Heretic and Hexen WHICH ROCK BTW, Duke Nukem 3D, and Rise of the Triad). What about Real-Time Strategy games? Or side-scrollers?

Share memories and throw out recommendations here.

[Ed Oscuro]

Lately I've really been into first-person shooters. Are there any awesome DOS-based ones that I might've overlooked?

Midwinter looks interesting - it's a really old polygonal FPS / terrain navigation game from 1990 or so. Comes on 5.25" floppies, I'm pretty sure. It's not the constant action of most of these other titles, however.

Apogee Software / 3D Realms / pre-iD:

Hovertank 3-D might be interesting (haven't played). Catacombs 3-D (raster engine by John Carmack is fun. Haven't played Ultima Underworld (mentioned as an inspiration for the Carmack renderers). For the Wolf engine, Blake Stone games (I think there were two - the first should be Aliens of Gold) are not too bad. Some Duke Nukem 3D expansions could be worth a look - and try LameDuke if you can. I recall Duke It Out In DC being not totally bad, and it looks like Duke Caribbean: Life's A Beach is actually becoming affordable on eBay recently. I can't guarantee these are amazing gameplay experiences, but why not try them? Capstone Entertainment made a few Duke 3D engine games that are a hoot, if not for the right reasons - TekWar ("day and night cycles"), Witchaven 1 & 2 (I threw up the intro video for one of these games on YouTube, probably the best part of the game though I didn't suffer long in these games). OK, something that's a must-play? Shadow Warrior and its expansions (including one that wasn't released commercially but is now free). JonoF Duke 3D & the "SWP" are something to look into for Shadow Warrior. Be proud, Mr. Woo!

"Yep, Xatrix Entertainment." If you don't recognize this, you need to check out Redneck Rampage, another must-play BUILD engine game. It wavers a bit between pure parody and love letter to all things sunburned (grits, moonshine, Elvis, aliens...) but the core game and pretty much all its expansions (I think there's three of 'em) all tended to have interesting stuff making them worth at least one play through.

There's also Blood, probably the most technically advanced BUILD engine game, with annoying secrets in Level 1 and voxel-based weapon powerup world models. Haven't played much of it. There's a Windows-optimized version out there of this one too.

Raven Software used an interesting post-Wolfenstein, pre-DOOM engine to make Shadowcaster, released on floppy and CD-ROM. I couldn't get DOSbox to play nice with the CD. The levels are poor and there's plenty of exploits, attacking enemies is boring, and I couldn't see much of the cutscenes at all - but it's an interesting curiosity, and Raven Software's typically great artwork is on show here. Use crates to your advantage!

You probably should tackle a few of the top DOOM / DOOM II mods seen over the years before even thinking about most of the games on this list. I realize that most mods still feel like vanilla DOOM, which I'm starting to feel is a bit slow and plodding with its pacing, but I still have fun with some mods. Two must-plays: Batman DOOM (tall enemies are not a bug, BTW, player height never got corrected), and Chex Quest. There's a couple variations of Chex Quest out there; the default and best experience looks to be just getting Chex Quest 3 which carries all three episodes, including a nice updated version of the second episode - which was originally released with poor maps. You also won't find the third episode anywhere else, 'cuz it's new. Some of the levels aggravate or bore me, but there's plenty of good ones too, and its goofy art sensibilities are almost unmatched for games of this type.

Of course, Quake on a DOS- or Win95-era PC is a somewhat different experience than you get today, but this might be a bit too new for your query. Plenty of very interesting modifications and expansions for this series. I could name a bunch if needed. I'll just say that Malice proved to be a disappointment overall.

Check out the Catacombs 3-D series too. Ultima Underworld, early Elder Scrolls, SSI Silver Archives, etc.

A couple real oddballs: Nitemare 3-D is a pure FPS update to the classic Hugo's House of Horrors trilogy of adventure games. There's a couple versions of this out there - an old one with silly monster sprites, and a newer one that has silly monster sprites and hero degradation (think DOOM-style HUD) graphics drawn by somebody else. I spent a while hunting down the DOS version of the full game recently, and was terribly disappointed by most all of the full version levels, which just seemed to get worse and worse the further along you went. However, the first episode is a classic of the Wolfenstein-3D type engine genre, and showcases everything David P. Gray programmed into the game - sliding block / hidden panel puzzles, ceiling-mounted turrets, a blackout, radio-possessed moonwalking enemies, and an unusually balanced weapon system. However, something which you'll either find interesting or maddening is the enemy damage - witches / vampire women / whatever are still about the closest I've come to being scared in a video game - they have a very nasty habit of zapping you AROUND CORNERS, and tend to be heavy hitters.

I tried out Psygnosis' movie-tie-in FPS Dracula recently but couldn't get it running exactly right in DOSbox. It doesn't seem terribly promising. I think there's a fanfare which plays every time you hit an enemy. Probably better just loading Obitus up in your favorite SNES emulator.

System Shock. Comes in floppy and CD-ROM (enhanced / EA Classics re-release) versions.

Also, nobody asked about it, but the early Thief games are great. I played Thief Gold, which is lovely. So what if it's not DOS, you still need to go to the bear pits tomorra'. Taffer. Somewhere or other I have an old Flash ad for the game which is a trip in of itself.

Haven't played it, but Battlezone looks interesting. I have the sequel - vehicular combat / RTS type thing. IN SPACE.

Tacticool FPSes: Of course there's the Rainbow Six games - up to Rainbow Six 3, Black whatever and Athena Sword, they're all surprisingly fun to play through with just one player. Something a bit less well-remembered now, but still highly influential and worth checking out, are the various Novalogic FPSes. It's probably fair to say that once you've played one, you've played them all, although I noticed Task Force Dagger attempts to mix things up a fair bit with different situations, and in one level you're reenacting that famous scene from Apocalypse Now, chasing down fleeing insurgents. Dumb but fun.

Random crazy adventure game recommendation: Gateway II Homeworld, based on the Poul Anderson series. Now with 100% less locker room smell, just pure adventure game fun through strange scenarios. An early Legend Entertainment release (the people who became famous for sinking the Unreal single-player franchise. I need to play Eric the Unready sometime.

Not an FPS, I don't think, but still gets rave reviews: Blade Runner.

Final thoughts: Pretty much everything SSI released either looks interesting or is fun. A good place to start is with the Silver Archives - three CDs (or so) of games from multiple eras. Ultima Collection is another cool multiformat release.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, really.

[drauch]

Pretty much everything Ed has said. I pretty much only play DOS based stuff anymore. Really the only thing that has been appealing to me as of late. I can really recommend Blood as well. One of my favorite games that I could play over and over. A hell of a challenge, lots of great references, and some of the most brutal FPS action of the 90s. The ending of Act 1 is some pretty shocking stuff.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Dunno if System Shock 2 engine belongs here. Fully accelerated 3D if memory serves (thus more advanced than, say, Quake II). 3D sound also way ahead of DOS era. I had little problem running Thief 1&2 on WinXP Pro (some cutscenes wouldn't appear in game, but every AV player should do them justice nowadays).
I used to play Spectre Supreme like there was no tomorrow, but it was the Mac version.
Oh yes, I'd say spiritually Nosferatu: The Wrath of Malachi fits the bill better than Thief. Feels older than it really is and I mean it in a good way.

[Ed Oscuro]

Good recommendations. Nosferatu is a very interesting game...semi-randomized FPS with some interestingly retro weapon animations - characters look great though. Thief is a totally different genre, and (I would say) totally competent in what it sets out to do (although tapping the keys veeery slooowly is an annoying core gameplay mechanic). Both these games are very good at atmosphere.

Speaking of Mac - I'm working on getting some of the B&W games going. Black Tower - blagh. Instead I am rather excited to finally play the MacVenture games finally (specifically the two Deja Vu games, only one of which appears in an apparently cut-down version on the NES). Of course, there's also the Bungie games - Pathways Into Darkness and the Marathon trilogy.

I forgot to mention earlier that the best way to play the Blood games is probably by getting the Windows fan-ported version of the One Unit Whole Blood collection. And, in the way of collections, there's the Ultima Collection. Rare to find a real copy, however.

There's also lots of late Win98/WinME/early XP era games that are really worth checking out - Ultima IX: Ascension seems pretty interesting, though obviously bug-plagued at its release and somewhat dated now.

[Drachenherz]

Ha, I remember (not so fondly) the times of MS Dos 640kb memory...

I am doing this right, huh?

[Ed Oscuro]

Speaking of DOS / Win95, Ecco CD and Comix Zone were good ports - Comix Zone especially. Both had a Win95 UI.

[Edmond Dantes]

I raise my eyebrow at the fact that someone called DOOM "slow and plodding." Doom is anything but!

I'm actually already familiar with the AD&D Gold Box games by SSI, the Ultima series and the System Shock games (unlike most people, I love the first one but hate the second). Still... would be nice to share memories.

I remember taking a laptop to a funeral to show a friend of mine the ending to Ultima III, which we thought was hilarious for how anti-climactic it was (granted, it was normal for games that old, but we really thought it'd be more than just "Congratulations, you beat Exodus!")

The NES version significantly expanded its ending, IIRC.

Also, Elder Scrolls: Arena is the only game in that series I've conquered, though Daggerfall got me into PC RPGs in general.

[Ed Oscuro]

I raise my eyebrow at the fact that someone called DOOM "slow and plodding." Doom is anything but!

I raise my eyebrow at being called "someone."

No, it really is, unless there's tons of bullet and plasma ammo or rockets around - and most maps and WADs limit those ammo types and expect you to spend a ton of time with the shotgun(s). Playing with shotguns means you spend a lot of time ducking behind cover and watching the action cycle. You can run fast, sure, but you can also run fast in Quake, which has much faster shotguns.

It's not a bad game, but the more time I spend with it, the more I realize that it's not the 100% perfect game that many people hold it up to be - at least for single player. For multiplayer on dial-up, the weapon balance makes a bit more sense. Of course, nearly every WAD playing just the same as the others doesn't help matters.

Brutal DOOM has improved things significantly by adding more things to do in the downtime, and by significantly increasing the fire rate - moving the shotgun to a much more sane "8 shots and reload" model than the original's.

On the subject of DOOM failings - take nearly every DOOM II map. A lot of flabby, sprawling collections of random architecture which are often tedious to play through, even with Brutal DOOM's expanded arsenal.

Of course, many of the games I've listed have one problem or the other, or both. Many simply are avoided due to simplistic architecture, however.

Ah, that reminds me - another hoary old FPS to check out - Corridor 7. Released on CD. Slightly less old and hoary is The Terminator: Future Shock. Very simple architecture, and the boxed version requires an executable patch to play on newer PCs (i.e., Pentiums).

On the subject of must-play DOOM WADs, there's always the Scuba Steve releases. And the stand-alone game HacX / HacX 2.0!

Edit: OH SHIT SON, FREE SHADOW WARRIOR

[Edmond Dantes]

The thing I remember about Doom is that there were literally HUNDREDS of monsters coming from EVERY direction. One of my earliest memories of that game involved me getting caught in a crossfire in a hallway... and getting monsters to fight with each other is always a blast. Sad that this never happens in modern FPS games, unless its scripted in advance.

I actually used to have Corridor 7... I never considered it that good a game though.

[Ed Oscuro]

The thing I remember about Doom is that there were literally HUNDREDS of monsters coming from EVERY direction.

Maybe in a PWAD, otherwise the result of Nightmare mode / advancing carelessly. There can't be many levels in even DOOM II with that many monsters however, it'd slow systems right down (Action DOOM II will slow down a Core 2 Duo and even a Core i7 if you let the zombie mode run long enough and leave hundreds of corpses onscreen). Actually, that's an interesting point - it's the kind of game that you can make more challenging by being quick about it. But if it a game isn't constantly pushing me, I'll tend to play safe, and so it is with DOOM.

I actually used to have Corridor 7... I never considered it that good a game though.

Just thought I'd mention it. It's one of the games in the list I haven't played much, but I didn't think it was high-quality either. In fact, I'd probably rather play the Witchaven (!) games or go looking for Legend of the Seven Paladins. Actually, I see there's a BUILD engine game I missed - Exhumed, also known as PowerSlave! It's on PlayStation and Saturn but hey. I don't know if WWII GI / NAM will be worth a shot. It also turns out that the Corridor 7 sequel I was thinking about - unreleased and unfinished - would've also been a BUILD engine game. Don't see the point of revisiting that franchise, such as it was, even if the UI was pretty out-there and the hero's gun was very shiny. Prototype's available here, though.

[Stormwatch]

Actually, I see there's a BUILD engine game I missed - Exhumed, also known as PowerSlave! It's on PlayStation and Saturn but hey.

In fact, only the PC version uses the Build engine; the console versions use the more advanced Slavedriver engine, which also powers the Saturn ports of Quake and Duke Nukem 3D.

[LtC]

Lots of fond memories. Didn't own a proper game console since PS2 (and GBC).

Hey guys, what were some of your favorite MS-DOS games? (Also including Windows 3.1 and Win95, because hell if I take thread titles seriously)

Kye, Supaplex, Tetris, Pizza Tycoon, Civilization, F-15 Strike Eagle II, Secret Agent, Keen 1&2&3, Duke Nukem 1&2&3D, Tyrian, Raptor, Wolfenstein 3D, Doom I&II, Blood, Hexen, Heretic, Transport Tycoon, Descent, Zed, C&C Red Alert

[Jonathan Ingram]

Lately I've really been into first-person shooters. Are there any awesome DOS-based ones that I might've overlooked?

This area has been covered for the most part already, but here`s one more: Strife. One of the most innovative shooters on the Doom engine, and not to the detriment of fun and enjoyment(*cough*Genetic Species*cough*).

[Gespenst]

Hey guys, what were some of your favorite MS-DOS games?

Fatal Racing. My favorite racing game of all time, then Screamer (and its sequel), and recently got hooked on anything Chris Roberts (Wing Commander and Strike Commander, mostly)

[Obiwanshinobi]

Moto Racer is the daddy if you're into this kind of racing.
Two first Thief games got ported to some fan-made engine in recent times. No idea how it handles hardware 3D sound. Must-play if you are no stranger to mouse and keyboard. Dark room and good headphones recommended (it's THAT kind of FPP).

and getting monsters to fight with each other is always a blast. Sad that this never happens in modern FPS games, unless its scripted in advance.

Not FPS and not on a computer, but Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers is about this kind of action.

[Ed Oscuro]

Strife is a decent title. Didn't care for the maps or puzzles on the whole, but it throws in a lot of good ideas and is quite interesting. I think certain modern source ports should be reasonably compatible with the extra files for cutscenes.

I also just remembered two more FPSes:

Cybermage: Darklight Awakening - not sure of the quality of this one but it looks a bit more funny than classic. There's some videos on YouTube of this highly obscure title.

Dark Forces - an actual classic! Available on Mac.

@ Obiwan: Do you mean The Dark Mod? I actually hadn't heard of it getting the Thief campaigns at all. It's like Thief, in the DOOM III engine, but it's got new assets (more now that they're working on a standalone, non-mod release), with user-made missions. No cohesive whole as I'd like, I don't think, but it is interesting to play all the same.

Also, some notes about who gets paid when you buy an old game online, and a paper on the Thief rendering systems.

[BIL]

#1 MS-DOS memory of legend: getting a new PC and having all three memory test bars light up to the max when starting Wolf3D. I knew I'd finally made it.

I realised the other day Brutal DOOM has all but overwritten the vanilla version in my mind. No going back. I don't just want to shoot monsters, I want to set them on fire and kick them down the stairs.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Now I think I might have meant NewDark.
Years ago I read about some Thief II mod/expansion that was a whole new campaign, complete with animated cutscenes and voice acting. Chances are I have it on some PC games mag cover DVD.
I'd like two things to appear: some way to play Die by the Sword with a joypad's two analogue sticks and some way to play Darkstone without... something weird about 3D animation (not sure if it's not my PC's fault).
Darkstone as it run on XP last time I checked was physically uncomofrable to behold (something Guild Wars or Torchlight wouldn't make me feel even at sub-30 fps). Never experienced "gaming sickness", but Darkstone was one of two games that almost made it happen.
Speaking of which, someone sufferd through Thief II like that.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Sensible World of Soccer '96/'97

If only you could sit the core game on top of a modern management game. Stats overload and contracts/players aging are about all this game lacks. So much fun.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Is Cannon Fodder technically the best on Amiga (emulator), or is there any more commendable version?

[Mortificator]

The Amiga version is technically best, but you wouldn't miss anything by playing the SNES port. It supports the mouse and reduces the loading times; the only casualty's the singing in the intro.

The thing I remember about Doom is that there were literally HUNDREDS of monsters coming from EVERY direction.

Maybe in a PWAD, otherwise the result of Nightmare mode / advancing carelessly. There can't be many levels in even DOOM II with that many monsters however, it'd slow systems right down

Let's see... not counting Map 30, there are 3737 monsters in Doom II, which averages to 120 per level.

As for DOS games, a lot of good stuff's already been mentioned, so I'll just add Ultima V, Dark Sun, and if you like classic Star Trek, 25th Anniversary.

[dark]

-Death Rally is a top down vehicular combat/racer that has a really cool aesthetic (think film noir mixed with anime?). Anyway it is by Remedy, who later got famous for Max Payne. The full version is now freeware as well. Great graphics and fantastic .mod music, late period dos game.

-One Must Fall 2097, 2d fighting game with well animated pre-rendered robots. This had a lot of replay value in the tournament mode, where you would have to buy parts for your robot to increase its power, speed, etc. and there were plenty of fun story bits too.

-Traffic Department 2192, an odd top down free roaming shooter where you play a hover car that has guns. The story is the highpoint of this one, although its also an interesting concept. If you play the full version with 3 episodes with 20 missions each, the gameplay does get stale over the long run, but certainly the shareware version is a blast.

-major stryker and overkill (2 completely different games), both are early 90s dos top down shmups, they are both hard as nails, and offer a lot of variety in terms of graphics and powerups. Very arcade like - and I think major stryker has tons of levels and a story element to it as well. Raptor call of the shadows was also a good top down shmup, easier than these other two.

-Commander Keen 6 - just like the well known shareware/freeware Keen 4, but this was the one you had to pay to get at the time. It's good quality. I would skip Keen 5 which takes place inside a space station, Keen 6 is a lot more like Keen 4 in that you wander around a world and the levels have a greater and more creative graphical variety.

-Stunts/4D Sports Driving (same game, different names) - early polygon graphics that look like Hard Drivin'. Offers a LOT of customization in that you can make your own custom tracks with the in game track editor, and there are a lot of interesting options in terms of banked curves, slaloms, jumps, loops, etc. There is still a cult following for this game to this day and if desired, you can probably download hundreds of fan created tracks.

[Aliquantic]

Random crazy adventure game recommendation: Gateway II Homeworld, based on the Poul Anderson series. Now with 100% less locker room smell, just pure adventure game fun through strange scenarios. An early Legend Entertainment release (the people who became famous for sinking the Unreal single-player franchise. I need to play Eric the Unready sometime.

Eric the Unready wasn't that good compared to Gateway II, I thought, especially if you've already played through the Spellcasting games. I'm not sure if you've played it, but I'd recommend Callahan's Crosstime Saloon over Eric too.

[jandrogo]

Sensible World of Soccer '96/'97

If only you could sit the core game on top of a modern management game. Stats overload and contracts/players aging are about all this game lacks. So much fun.

Best football game ever... I still play from time to time when I need a "real gaming" experience

[nem]

SkyRoads should be up everyone's alley who likes arcade style games. It was made free to download by the original devs, so no reason not to try it out.

[louisg]

I liked Doom, Heretic and Tyrian a lot, but I also played Stunts to death. I also have fond memories of Aliens Ate My Babysitter (Keen), the souped-up DOS port of Rampart (which is excellent), and played Duke 3d a ton. I love the way dukematch plays; nothing else like it.

Re: Doom, it's definitely not 100% perfect, but Doom 1 episodes 1-3 seem to have the best pure gameplay of any other single-player FPS I've tried. It's fair, has a good mix of exploration and action.. they either really thought things through when they put that game together, or they just got really lucky.

Doom II starts losing the plot in terms of being more balanced around saved games and being a collection of spectacular levels and really shitty ones. IMO the very first episode of Doom is the best of the bunch. I kind of wish there had been other games following in Doom's footsteps besides Heretic and a few mega-shitty ones-- Doom is great but there are a lot of improvements that can be made.

BTW you guys should also try Tubular Worlds-- pretty decent DOS shmup

[rapoon]

Police, Space and Hero's Quest. Iceman was decent.

Wolfenstein. I still have the Wolfenstein 3.5" iD handed out at a local convention, ~1 year prior to retail.

Blood II - greatest weapons in a FPS. voodoo doll, black hole gun, phantasm ball

[MX7]

Shivers, Harvest of Souls, Gabriel Knight 2 and Discworld 2. There, that's my pre-teen life right there.

[Ganelon]

My fondest action-oriented DOS memories were probably with Stunts, One Must Fall 2097, and Doom. RPG-wise, Ultima VII and Daggerfall captured opposite sides of what I expected from a CRPG. As for a big wow-inducing moment, one of mine was actually my first time playing Myst on Windows 3.11 the first weekend of its release. The beautiful CG visuals and crisp ambient CD sound and music seemed mind-blowing to me even though I had no clue what to do.

I was also big into FPS and RTS back then and couldn't wait to try everything out. When the abandonware scene came onto full force in the late 90s/early 00s, I had my chance to try out all the games I had only heard about. I preferred simplicity and similarity to the forerunners of the genre.

For FPS, some unmentioned stuff include Outlaws, a more story-centric Western shooter using Dark Forces's smooth Jedi engine. I also couldn't stop thinking about how good Rebel Moon Rising looked—better than Quake II—and it actually packed more action too. Speaking of Quake, if you really like the original, Chasm: The Rift was a decent knockoff but slightly inferior in just about every aspect. For more eccentric tastes, Carmageddon is in a car but it played not that different from Doom; it's not very fun compared to true vehicular shooters like Interstate '76 (MechWarrior 2 engine with mission-based mechanics) though.

Also, don't forget about Spear of Destiny; I think it had better level design than Wolfenstein 3D. There were also the authorized FormGen episodes that are less well known but I'd recommend playing either the FormGen version or Spear, not both (unless you want to repeat most of the game). Once Windows 98 came out, FPS turned to full-3D, and Unreal came out nothing like what I expected, that was the end of FPS for me. I never really played unofficial fan mods and somehow, I don't even enjoy the games I used to nowadays.

I always enjoyed FPS more than RTS but I did play Warcraft II quite a bit and wanted to find similar games to it. KKND and Dark Reign are pretty solid Command & Conquer clones. Blood & Magic and War Wind are pretty solid Warcraft clones. I've never understood the appeal to Total Annihilation but it seems to have a solid community too. Resource micromanagement and the necessity of fast-paced controls grew tiresome for me though. Nowadays, I only play turn-based strategy (of which Heroes of Might and Magic, Lords of the Realm, and Warlords were my favorites back in the day) and normally stick with SRPGs.