Heavy Metal music and video games

dpful · Post by **dpful** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:55 pm

I know some people like their games to contain heavy metal music, maybe there's some psychological link between the heavy metal and video games- here's my impromptu observation.

I'm not really a spaz about video games- I love to play them, love to collect them, but usually put it off till I can make some liesure time (I'm a busy guy).
I teach music at a place called Paul Green School of Rock Music, and I'm in charge of directing shows, the current one being "Classic Metal", which is stuff from Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Van Halen, Scorpions, etc.- pre 90's stuff. Right now, I'm at the computer casting the show (about 30 kids), which involves listening to all the songs and designating how hard or easy the parts are and mostly just getting real familiar with them so I can teach them good.

Now, I'm in the middle of working on this, and totaly devoted to finishing up in the next couple of hours, but I can't explain it, I want to go and play some video games so bad I can just FEEL it! It's the music that's making me want to do it!

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:32 pm

I'm a fan of a great many sub-genres of metal (though my favourite bands tend to be death metal and grind bands), and I agree with you on this to an extent. Without wanting to descend into pretentious waffle, there's something innately visceral about run 'n' gun games and certain shooters in particular that resonates with me in the same way that a lot of metal does. I hesitate to use cliched terms like "primal" or "primitive", but I think there is definitely a link between the nature of heavily action-oriented games and the nature of certain forms of metal. I'm not a student of music, though - perhaps you could expand on what I'm getting at?

However, if what you're talking about is metal in video games, I'm not really interested in that at all. At least, I'm pretty opposed to the use of licensed stuff. I prefer original compositions in video games, regardless of the genre. To state the obvious, though, it all depends on the game. A bit of Brodequin isn't going to enhance the experience of deeply atmospheric games with a myriad visual and aural nuances like X-Multiply or Super Metroid, is it? The more metal-influenced stuff in games like Contra: Shattered Soldier works nicely, but I think it becomes a joke when people like Nobuo Uematsu start dabbling in it (and I don't mean that to sound at all elitist - there's nothing worse in the world than a metal bore/snob - but the man clearly isn't very familiar with the genre).

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:20 am

I used to like metal, and I still do a bit.

But for some reason I think Psyvariar 2 has a fantastic soundtrack, and I've taken a liking to beatmania IIDX...

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:35 am

dpful wrote:maybe there's some psychological link between the heavy metal and video games

Both are consumed mostly by 18-25 year old males?

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:34 am

Both are consumed mostly by 18-25 year old males?

BOOM BOOM!

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:51 pm

S'funny - last week i notice that listening to Arsis makes me play Galaga 88'.

Try it, fer real. Arsis fits over that game like a damn glove. You wouldn't think it due to the cutesy bosses and such but it does...

xexex · Post by **xexex** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:37 pm

I am a huge fan of atmospheric metal (especially dark melodic death metal) and I would agree that metal works well in games, but it should be original compositions. I don't think any discussion of metal in games is complete without mentioning the classic soundtracks of many of the pc engine scd titles--specifically gates of thunder, lords of thunder, and sapphire (all by T's music, I believe). I really wish there were new games being released that had that sort of music. At least they seem to still appreciate shredding guitar in Japan (I dislike the new trend in US games to use rap and hip-hop. I don't consider rap to be real music... maybe you can appreciate it as poetry, but I think a lot of poets would take offense at that!)

Arcatech · Post by **Arcatech** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 10:44 pm

To many rap haters here. ugh

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:03 pm

AFXisatwin wrote:To many rap haters here. ugh

Exactly one person said anything about rap at all.

xexex wrote:I don't consider rap to be real music... maybe you can appreciate it as poetry, but I think a lot of poets would take offense at that!

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it isn't music. Music doesn't begin and end with white anglo-saxon sensibilities, chord progressions, etc. This is an extremely stupid comment, and just because something has a heavier emphasis on rhythm than melody doesn't mean it isn't music.

Arcatech · Post by **Arcatech** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:09 pm

I meant the shmups forum in general.

@ Xexex: Listen to Madvillain, Blackalicious, and Slick Rick etc then get back to me.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:10 pm

I'd recommend Deltron 3030, myself. Possibly the Roots.

thesuperkillerxxx · Post by **thesuperkillerxxx** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:28 pm

^^^ Old School (pre 96) Rap fan here! woohoo and I am a white boy too!

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:02 pm

Well - i think rap is music but it's like this...

Heavy Metal is a hand drawn animated cartoon whereas Rap is a cgi show.

It's like comparing the original Transformers to Beast Wars...

Zweihander · Post by **Zweihander** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:56 pm

Guilty Gear X and Devil May Cry 3... that's where it's at.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:01 pm

circuitface wrote:Well - i think rap is music but it's like this...

Heavy Metal is a hand drawn animated cartoon whereas Rap is a cgi show.

It's like comparing the original Transformers to Beast Wars...

I honestly don't get why some people hold metal as some paragon of music when they compare it to rap. Metal is a dumb, dumb genre that's 95% ear candy. The lyrics are custom-made for 15 year old males no matter what the subgenre, and the vast majority of it is nothing but bombast. Instrumental talent is pretty much the only thing it genuinely has going for it, but if metal fans actually cared about that above all else they'd listen to jazz.

I love metal. I really do... the sound appeals to me, despite the frequestly stupid aspects of it. The vast majority of my music collection is metal, and I'm currently listening to the new Sigh album (what the hell happened to the production?). But it's a fucking dumb genre, and I absolutely cannot understand metal fans who criticize rap for being stupid. Glass houses and all that... if you're perched atop a pedastal made of angst, elves and dark Norwegian forests then you're really in no place to question the intellectual value of any other genre.

Randorama · Post by **Randorama** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:06 pm

sethsez wrote: if you're perched atop a pedastal made of angst, elves and dark Norwegian forests then you're really in no place to question the intellectual value of any other genre.

And Vampires! Even if it's not Thule Gesellschaft-like material. Funny thing is, the most creative band now off the WASPish places of Norway are Royksopp, who lived two blocks from my chief.

About rap: funny thing is, most of archaic poetry, especially the "Indeuropean" one, is actually closer to rap. Most old poems (gross generalization here...) were meant to be memorized by heart and thus rythm was favoured over all (it helps mnemonic processes). Not entirely sure about the genesis of this genre, but i wouldn't be surprised if it's born off some "invention of tradition" process...

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:47 pm

Randorama wrote:Not entirely sure about the genesis of this genre, but i wouldn't be surprised if it's born off some "invention of tradition" process...

Actually, it was mostly born from freestyling, making it up as you went along with pretty much nothing for instrumentation. Similar to the origins of blues in a way.

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:02 pm

I honestly don't get why some people hold metal as some paragon of music when they compare it to rap. Metal is a dumb, dumb genre that's 95% ear candy. The lyrics are custom-made for 15 year old males no matter what the subgenre, and the vast majority of it is nothing but bombast. Instrumental talent is pretty much the only thing it genuinely has going for it, but if metal fans actually cared about that above all else they'd listen to jazz.

I love metal. I really do... the sound appeals to me, despite the frequestly stupid aspects of it. The vast majority of my music collection is metal, and I'm currently listening to the new Sigh album (what the hell happened to the production?). But it's a fucking dumb genre, and I absolutely cannot understand metal fans who criticize rap for being stupid. Glass houses and all that... if you're perched atop a pedastal made of angst, elves and dark Norwegian forests then you're really in no place to question the intellectual value of any other genre.

I couldn't agree more. This is more or less exactly how I feel about the genre, and would explain why I tend to keep most of its fans at arm's length.

And this is coming from a massive Bal-Sagoth fan and supporter of death metal; someone you would perhaps expect to embody the above-mentioned silliness!

Then again, at least half of my collection consists of bands I listen to for lyrical comedy value (outside of the sound that appeals to me doubtless in a similar way as it does to you). I tend to take everything in metal with a pinch of salt and have a good laugh about it with the more like-minded of my friends. I think this is fundamentally how I differ from most fans in my appreciation of the genre...

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:52 pm

I wonder if there are any Bal-Sagoth fans that actually take the lyrics seriously. I mean, I know they exist, but I just can't fathom it...

Atlantis Ascendant (the only one I own) is a pretty fun album, though.

xexex · Post by **xexex** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 6:14 am

I wonder if there are any Bal-Sagoth fans that actually take the lyrics seriously. I mean, I know they exist, but I just can't fathom it...

I doubt even bal sagoth takes them seriously... at least not any more seriously than one would a Conan the barbarian novel. It is true that the vast majority of metal bands have terrible lyrics, and for the most part I don't pay attention to lyrics. However, there are a few gems out there (like the Septic Flesh album 'Mystic Places of Dawn'... the lyrics on that one are fantastic).

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it isn't music. Music doesn't begin and end with white anglo-saxon sensibilities, chord progressions, etc. This is an extremely stupid comment, and just because something has a heavier emphasis on rhythm than melody doesn't mean it isn't music.

I would agree that music doesn't end with anglo-saxon sensibilities and I am fascinated by the vastly different types of music you find around the world. Of course, from Indian music to Middle Eastern to traditional Chinese music, most types of music that I encounter have both melody and rhythm. Even something like Balinese music, which employs melodies that sound very dissonant to western ears, still has a strong melodic element. Wouldn't most musicians define music as melody and rhythm? Now of course you can make the argument that rap does contain melody and it is just that the emphasis is on rhythm, but the rap that I have heard seems to be almost completely focused on the rapper himself and the backing beats are just that, rhythmic beats.

Instrumental talent is pretty much the only thing it genuinely has going for it, but if metal fans actually cared about that above all else they'd listen to jazz.

I don't really listen to jazz because I perfer more structure to my music (I like baroque a lot... and I loved the giga wing 2 soundtrack) but I would never try to say that jazz isn't really music. My main point here is that just because I don't like a particular form of music doesn't entail that I will say it isn't music. I don't like blues either, but I would certainly say it is music. Being a musician myself I appreciate musical talent in any form (even if I don't like the music) and the majority of rap that I have been exposed to seems to consist of a person rapping, which in and of itself I wouldn't consider any more musical than a death metal vocal (and I wouldn't count death metal vocals as musical at all), and someone manning some electronics/samplers. In that particular case I don't see where the musicians are (especially the people who dedicated long hours training at their instrument).

I honestly don't get why some people hold metal as some paragon of music when they compare it to rap. Metal is a dumb, dumb genre that's 95% ear candy

I'm certainly NOT saying all metal bands are intelligent. If you are judging by lyrics and image than I'd have to agree that most metal out there is pretty dumb. Of course most of the rap I've encountered hasn't read like Shakespeare either! Judging purely by the music I think that the view becomes more favorable, but again you encounter a lot of stupidity--I personally don't care for most brutal death metal bands because I find their music sounds like technical exercises. On the other hand, listen to the music on an album like Cynic 'Focus' and try to tell me it isn't intelligent. Getting back on track, when I was originally hoping for more metal in shmups, I was thinking specifically about the soundtracks on a lot of the early-to-mid 90's shmups and if you look at the style what you see is that some of them don't even have guitar sounds (i.e. many of the mega drive ones) but still have a metal 'feel'. Thinking about that more I realize that it comes down to having a classical influence. I would usually describe the music I like to people who haven't heard it as 'imagine if rock descended from Bach instead of from the blues' and I think it is this classical influence that I love the most regardless of the type of instruments or speed (which brings me back to the giga wing 2 soundtrack).

umi · Post by **umi** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:16 am

All genres have their brilliance. No whole genre can be called stupid. Metal has an almost otherworldly quality about it, very primitive, in a world which just wants to evolve (and btw is doing a terrible job at it). Upbeat electro genres I think have very similar facets, despite the differences in sound. Cavemen hitting electronic sticks together, if you will. In any case, never judge a genre by its mean, but only by its pinnacle.

In regards to metal, hell, I'll be happy if Tool just continue to release an album every 5 years for the next decade or two.... truly they are the jazz of metal.

Btw, don't knock rap... it's one of the greatest innovations of language -- ever.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:45 am

Heavy Metal + Videogames = Gate Of Thunder

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:53 am

WHEEE

xexex wrote:Wouldn't most musicians define music as melody and rhythm? Now of course you can make the argument that rap does contain melody and it is just that the emphasis is on rhythm, but the rap that I have heard seems to be almost completely focused on the rapper himself and the backing beats are just that, rhythmic beats.

Emphasis added. What rap have you heard?

Incidentally, you are aware that there are instrumental hip-hop albums, right? You know, entirely without any vocals at all. I recommend picking up one of those. You might be surprised to hear that there's more than just a beat for 50 minutes.

Pick up an early Einsturzende Neubauten album. Try some Black Dice. Hell, go all the way, get some Merzbow. You want to argue that some of those aren't music? You might have a point. But rap does have melody, and it does have rhythm. That the focus is shifted heavily toward rhythm doesn't change anything.

Being a musician myself I appreciate musical talent in any form (even if I don't like the music) and the majority of rap that I have been exposed to seems to consist of a person rapping, which in and of itself I wouldn't consider any more musical than a death metal vocal (and I wouldn't count death metal vocals as musical at all), and someone manning some electronics/samplers. In that particular case I don't see where the musicians are (especially the people who dedicated long hours training at their instrument).

Are you one of those same people who go "electronic music isn't music" too? I'm sure everyone from Kraftwerk to Autechre would have a bone to pick with that argument.

Additionally, who cares if rapping isn't inherantly musical? Or death metal vocals, for that matter. Drums aren't inherantly musical either... they're an aspect of the music. Death metal vocals in particular exist to add texture to a song, not melody, just as drums exist to add rhythm, not melody.

On the other hand, listen to the music on an album like Cynic 'Focus' and try to tell me it isn't intelligent.

Musically it's great. However, I'd hardly consider it a "standard" metal album, and you're comparing it to standard, popular rap.

umi wrote:In any case, never judge a genre by its mean, but only by its pinnacle.

Though I agree, some genres just never get this rule applied to them. Try to say metal sucks because Korn is stupid and you'll rightfully get knocked down a notch or two. Try to say rap sucks because 50 Cent is a jackass and you'll get murmurs of approval. If I say I like country, people never think I'm talking about Johnny Cash, they think I'm talking about Toby Keith. If I say I like pop, Britney Spears comes to mind before Magnetic Fields.

Basically, I'm taking this mentallity and turning it back on metal. If we're going to ignore the best works of a genre and bash it based on broad stereotypes, it's gonna go both ways. And frankly, metal does tend to have a pretty sharp drop from "genius" to "stupid but fun" and below.

umi wrote:In regards to metal, hell, I'll be happy if Tool just continue to release an album every 5 years for the next decade or two.... truly they are the jazz of metal.

Nah. If you want to hear some amazing instrumental talent in metal, listen to Dream Theater. They're some fantastic musicians. Too bad their actual songs suck.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:04 am

Metal and Rap both have dumb lyrics... as a matter of fact most music has dumb lyrics. If i never hear another love song it'll be to damn soon.

sethsez · Post by **sethsez** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:11 am

I've heard a couple good love songs. This is notable mostly because I've heard many more than a couple love songs.

JBC · Post by **JBC** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 10:49 am

Actually that's one of the reasons why i like metal so much... it is harder to understand the lyrics and so you just listen to the tones in the voice and hear the music. That's all it really takes to feel the emotion of a song, anyway. There probably isn't a person here who hasn't heard a song sang in a different language that they didn't enjoy at least once.

I wish people would start writing lyrics that spoke about new, wierd things and ideas instead of just bitching and complaining about how they where mistreated by their love or how they hurt so much from the heartbreak. Blah blah blah. My Chemicle Romance needs to DIE NOW.

Klatrymadon · Post by **Klatrymadon** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:06 pm

I wonder if there are any Bal-Sagoth fans that actually take the lyrics seriously. I mean, I know they exist, but I just can't fathom it...

As far as original writing goes, I think most fans (and the band themselves) hold them in high regard. What you have to understand when approaching Bal-Sagoth, particularly with their more recent records, is that the lyrical content is all written as if were being set to illustrations for a comic. In fact, the band's lyricist/vocalist is currently working on a series of Sagoth comics. Most fans are fully aware of how the lyrics are intended, and enjoy them as pieces of spacey fiction. Some songs are allegorical, like Draconis Albionensis, but apart from those instances there's nothing that is meant to be taken absolutely seriously. There are obviously lots of people to whom the lyrics appeal purely because they love the adolescent sense of adventure and war in them, or because they want to get back to simpler, perhaps more chivalric times (or even because they're just fed up of lyrics dealing with 'real life' matters), but I doubt there are many people who view our modern societies in terms of the Bal-Sagoth lyrical universe.

That's Manowar territory.

Post by **system11** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:17 pm

I liked rap when Grandmaster Flash (&TFF) were around. Since those days, all the rap I'm exposed to by music channels and radio stations is either a) crap and/or b) gansta crap. There's loads of rap on the MC3 soundtrack, some of this is good - but we never hear it in the UK - not that I'm aware of anyway. It seems like they were better at telling a story or saying something back then (along with the generic 'hey party people' junk).

It's not even close to a genre I listen to though much. I used to run a goth club, I like stuff from punk to 80s to electronic to industrial to goth to metal and back again. If it sounds good musically, odds are I'll listen to it. Even some country. At the moment, I'm chilling out to Dummy by Portishead, IMHO one of the best albums ever made, definite top 10 desert island disc.

Oh - back on topic, I think metal works in games because of the tempo and aggressive sound. This goes nicely with general destruction, although I do like catchy stuff too, and Galuda surprised me - never expected to like that style of music in a game - not something I'd ever consider listening to otherwise.

benstylus · Post by **benstylus** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:53 pm

sethsez wrote: Though I agree, some genres just never get this rule applied to them. Try to say metal sucks because Korn is stupid and you'll rightfully get knocked down a notch or two. Try to say rap sucks because 50 Cent is a jackass and you'll get murmurs of approval. If I say I like country, people never think I'm talking about Johnny Cash, they think I'm talking about Toby Keith. If I say I like pop, Britney Spears comes to mind before Magnetic Fields.

This is exactly why I hate it when people ask the question "What kinds of music do you listen to?"

Instead of listing genres (since much of what I listen to is not one simple easy to categorize genre), I pretty much have to list off bands or people that they (in all likelihood) haven't heard, which really doesn't help the situation at all. Of course I always make the mistake of mentioning one artist they have heard of.

Me: "All sorts of stuff... I like Cibo Matto, Guitar Vader, Belmont Playboys, Kay Hanley, Dead Can Dance, Social Distortion..."

Them: *blank stare disappears from their face as they recognize Social Distortion* "Oh you like punk music?"

Me: *sigh*

Vincere · Post by **Vincere** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:15 pm

bloodflowers wrote: Oh - back on topic, I think metal works in games because of the tempo and aggressive sound. This goes nicely with general destruction, although I do like catchy stuff too, and Galuda surprised me - never expected to like that style of music in a game - not something I'd ever consider listening to otherwise.

My thoughts exactly. I like the good ole' thrash metal in games, it has the speed required to play fiercely. Otherwise Esp Galuda surprised me as well because tech' isn't what I would expect in video games and that kinda suits well to the game.

When will they bring on true black metal in shmups?

shmups.system11.org

Heavy Metal music and video games

Heavy Metal music and video games

Re: Heavy Metal music and video games