Should I be happy about new consoles?

[CMoon]

Was about to write this in the x-box thread but seemed like too much of a tangent.

Basically I don't understand why consumers and gamers allow themselves to be sucked into the hype for new consoles when they 1) come too quickly (about every 6 years), 2) aren't upgrades with true backwards compatibility, meaning a reinvestment in your game library, 3) and are not driven by the needs of game developers but instead are used to push game developers in a certain direction--which is of course the tail wagging the dog.

I would love to see more hostility every time they announce a console which isn't an upgrade but an excuse to make you repurchase everything. Gameboy had it right...every entry is a truly backwards compatible upgrade, so if you choose to buy in, you aren't losing anything. Is there anyway they can offer up an exciting new console that doesn't simultaneously invalidate what came before it?

[KAI]

No you shouldn't, you should be happy about games, not about consoles.

Good games=Good console
Bad Games=Bad console

Fuck consoles.

[neorichieb1971]

Console manufacturers have learned from cell phone manufacturers and operating system manufacturers that sometimes just putting a +1 on the end means the world to some people.

There are 2 types of adopters, the 1st ins and the 1st left outs.

The 1st "ins" will either buy in because its hip and cool to have the latest, some others will be excited by its offerings.

The 1st "left outs" are those who feel the 1st "ins" made a good purchase decision and feel left out by not having the upgrade.

In the last generation (PS3, 360) I felt no obligation to run out and buy the consoles based on gaming merits. I bought all my PS3's used and never bought a 360 as I don't like failing hardware. I ended up using the PS3 for blu ray movie watching and uploading my personal stuff to the HDD. I probably bought 15 games for the system new and have been disappointed in 3 or 4 of them.

With the new generation of gaming, the 1st thing that disappoints isn't BC, its the fact that the games are touted as "NEW" when essentially its the same thing with different dressing. The types of games that really could do with some new dressing are left out in the cold. And its this one single point that bugs me the most.

The other thing that bothers me is why new joypads are necessary with different cabling requirements. Thank God HDMI gets rid of the issue of buying different cables for A/V as well.

To all game developers out there. For me, make something beautifully simple. Thanks.

[shmuppyLove]

Backwards compatbility is a relatively new phenomenon, and while Game Boy is not a bad example, it's not perfect. The main reason it's been possible with Nintendo handhelds is that they've pretty consistently stuck with a cartridge format for games. Up until the DS that is, which required a second slot to accomodate GBA games, but of course you can't play original GB games on a DS.

Was the SNES backwards compatible with NES games? Nope. Was the Genesis backwards compatible with SMS games? Nope. Was the Dreamcast backwards compatible with Sega CD games? Nope.

To me, backwards compatbility actually hinders advances in the technology, as it forces the manufacturer to make certain concessions in order to accomodate the older format.

If anything, we should be hoping that a new console is so much more advanced that it's just not possible to run the older games on it.

[nZero]

Was the Genesis backwards compatible with SMS games? Nope.

It kind of was, just not out of the box. See: Power Base Converter.

[shmuppyLove]

It kind of was, just not out of the box. See: Power Base Converter.

Hmm interesting point; then would we have to include the Super Game Boy or the Game Boy Player?

But they're different because they're more cross-compatible as opposed to backwards-compatible.

But, definitely worth mentioning.

[Friendly]

Of course you should be excited! Who needs consumer rights when you can have this:

[EllertMichael]

Was the Dreamcast backwards compatible with Sega CD games? Nope.

You dare skip over Sega Saturn?

[CIT]

Was the Genesis backwards compatible with SMS games? Nope.

It kind of was, just not out of the box. See: Power Base Converter.

Actually it was, all the SMS chips are in the Mega Drive. All the lofty named "Power Base Converter" does is re-route the pins.

[shmuppyLove]

You dare skip over Sega Saturn?

Oh shit you're right ... well, the Saturn didn't play Sega CD games anyway.

And then to be more correct, the Dreamcast didn't play Saturn games.

But then, why would you want it to /obvioustroll

[system11]

Backwards compatability is of no consequence whatsoever. If you had a library and a console to play them on, buying a new console does not make the old one magically disappear. New consoles matter because new games are making the old ones chug, plain and simple. Allegedly Sony are trying to push 1080/60fps as the new norm. Good luck to them.

[CMoon]

Backwards compatbility is a relatively new phenomenon

Wasn't trying to make a justification that old=good or right. Those consoles felt like they were around forever when I was younger, now I feel like I just bought a ps2 a few years back. The consoles themselves feel ephemeral, but the games still seem vital. That sort of perspective makes the 'new platform every 6 years' agenda feel less of a joke and more of a rip off.

I suppose eventually I'll just become a PC gamer.

[BryanM]

The time frame is roughly the same - every six years whether you want it or not. Time just feels like it flies when you're an adult.

My only positive thoughts on the new generation of pc boxes is along the lines of "Holy christ the specs required to emulate these things are going to be an anemic % rise from their predecessors."

Not even using DDR4. What's even the point 'sides getting people to buy everything all over again.

[Friendly]

The time frame is roughly the same - every six years whether you want it or not. Time just feels like it flies when you're an adult.

My only positive thoughts on the new generation of pc boxes is along the lines of "Holy christ the specs required to emulate these things are going to be an anemic % rise from their predecessors."

Not even using DDR4. What's even the point 'sides getting people to buy everything all over again.

PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 (Xbone has DDR3).

[BulletMagnet]

To me, physical backwards compatibility is nice, but not a deal-breaker one way or the other: it is a bit of a pain to have to drag out your older systems (or else buy the game again as a download) if you feel like revisiting the classics, but it's nothing I'm not willing to do. I can see where it'd be a somewhat bigger deal for those who intend to trade in their old system to help pay for the new one, but I can't imagine that most people in the market for stuff like this in the first place wouldn't be able to just put off the purchase and save up a bit longer to be able to keep what they already have, if they're really that keen on it.

Digital backwards-compatibility tends to rub me differently though...the fact that both Sony and MS have said that none of the stuff you've downloaded for the PS3 and 360 will work on the new systems sounds both screwy (I'm not a programmer, but are there really that many impassible obstacles to carrying over your current digital library in a functional state?) and ominous (once the current systems fizzle out and online services for them are unplugged in the next few years, if your system or its HD dies you can never reclaim the stuff you bought...unless they see fit to re-list it for the new services so you can purchase them again), and makes me even more hesitant to tiptoe away from physical media despite its advantages in other ways.

[MadSteelDarkness]

I remember a time, not too long ago, in which a new generation of consoles was a time for excitement/celebration/etc.

Nowadays i just dread what different flavors of fuckery the various console makers are going to attempt to get away with.

Anyway, yeah. I honestly think i'm going to sit this coming gen out. Oh well, it'll give me a chance to play the truly heroic backlog of unplayed games staring at me forlornly from my shelves

[ZellSF]

To me, physical backwards compatibility is nice, but not a deal-breaker one way or the other: it is a bit of a pain to have to drag out your older systems (or else buy the game again as a download) if you feel like revisiting the classics, but it's nothing I'm not willing to do. I can see where it'd be a somewhat bigger deal for those who intend to trade in their old system to help pay for the new one, but I can't imagine that most people in the market for stuff like this in the first place wouldn't be able to just put off the purchase and save up a bit longer to be able to keep what they already have, if they're really that keen on it.

Digital backwards-compatibility tends to rub me differently though...the fact that both Sony and MS have said that none of the stuff you've downloaded for the PS3 and 360 will work on the new systems sounds both screwy (I'm not a programmer, but are there really that many impassible obstacles to carrying over your current digital library in a functional state?) and ominous (once the current systems fizzle out and online services for them are unplugged in the next few years, if your system or its HD dies you can never reclaim the stuff you bought...unless they see fit to re-list it for the new services so you can purchase them again), and makes me even more hesitant to tiptoe away from physical media despite its advantages in other ways.

Physical and digital copies of games are the same thing when it comes to backwards compatibility. 360 code is 360 code if it's running from a disc or from your hdd.

That they'll shut down servers in a few years... is a problem. It's a problem that keeps getting repeated in backwards compatibility discussions, but it's a way more important problem in itself than backwards compatibility. People who are worried about it probably aren't doing themselves any favors just bringing it up in these kind of conversations.

Oh well, digital content will stay long term rentals, as it always have been.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Basically I don't understand why consumers and gamers allow themselves to be sucked into the hype for new consoles when they 1) come too quickly (about every 6 years), 2) aren't upgrades with true backwards compatibility, meaning a reinvestment in your game library, 3) and are not driven by the needs of game developers but instead are used to push game developers in a certain direction--which is of course the tail wagging the dog.

The other day at work I had a chat with guy who seemed genuinely hyped about Xbox One. I think before 360 he was more of a computer gamer, then 360 (early in its lifecycle) had become his first console "crush". Now he wants to replace his 360 (literally sell it) with One. Sees a huge graphical improvement in trailers. So not everyone is as jaded as we on here claim to be. The history has not come to its end yet. There are people who like their toys new.

[Blackbird]

I'm in the "doesn't tolerate fuckery" crowd. I can't get excited about new consoles like I could with the older ones, because nowadays the console developers always seem to be inventing some new way to strip away the consumer's property rights with every new console. I don't support DRM, I don't support always online, and I don't support pay to play a game I've already purchased on a different console. Companies that do things that I disagree with don't get my money, it's that simple.

I really hope that consumers as a whole start embracing this ideology and start speaking with their wallets. So long as consumers continue to go "Ugh, I hate DRM... but shiny graphics makes it okay! /buy everything" companies won't take our complaints seriously. The only statistic that ultimately matters for them is sales. Until they understand that every DRM enabled console they produce will fail miserably, they will continue to take advantage of us.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I would love to see more hostility every time they announce a console which isn't an upgrade but an excuse to make you repurchase everything. Gameboy had it right...every entry is a truly backwards compatible upgrade, so if you choose to buy in, you aren't losing anything. Is there anyway they can offer up an exciting new console that doesn't simultaneously invalidate what came before it?

As a matter of fact Game Boy has been reselling old games from the year one: Tetris, Qix, BurgerTime, Defender, Joust - all those were pretty old when GB launched.

[Skykid]

I used to get really excited about new console launches, but today they're just toaster ovens that play games. The handheld is really all that's left of any interest. I'd rather have a Vita than an Xbone.

Great video game crash of 2014, come forth and eradicate.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I'm in the "doesn't tolerate fuckery" crowd.

Crowd? What crowd? I'm under impression the most whiny gaming forums are the least crowded.

[Stormwatch]

You all are thinking about the traditional players, and forgetting the new boss... Android.

[Obiwanshinobi]

What's really going on here is complaining about us getting old(er). That's all there is to it.

[Edmond Dantes]

What's really going on here is complaining about us getting old(er). That's all there is to it.

Because if we were young we'd be dumb sheep who'd gladly let Microsoft and Sony lead us by the nose...

... Actually, that sounds chillingly accurate.

[Ed Oscuro]

Console manufacturers have learned from cell phone manufacturers and operating system manufacturers that sometimes just putting a +1 on the end means the world to some people.

I think in this case Microsoft have taken you quite literally.

Although perhaps one could also argue they have taken -359 off.

IRT Thread: In before some guy says this:

Once in my life I would like to own something outright before it's broken! I'm always in a race with the junkyard! I just finished paying for the car and it's on its last legs. The refrigerator consumes belts like a goddam maniac. They time those things. They time them so when you finally paid for them, they're used up.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Because if we were young we'd be dumb sheep who'd gladly let Microsoft and Sony lead us by the nose...

... Actually, that sounds chillingly accurate.

Can't say I had any opinion on Blast Processing™ back in the day, but I do remember times when Amiga wars were mad real for some of us then-lads.
Games console crash is as possible as television crash at this point. Both are more likely to decay slowly, following arcades into oblivion. Videogaming, on the other hand, isn't going anywhere any time soon. Buttons might disappear, but touch screens are here to stay (being cheaper all around) and so on.
Our progeny will find it funny how much tat we had to store at home for the sake of just playing games.

[Cuilan]

Of course you should be excited! Who needs consumer rights when you can have this:

I find it a bit odd that someone who supposedly cares so much about "consumer rights" apparently has no issue with the fact that online-enabled, 1st party retail games on the PS3/Vita have online passes, and you even directly supported such practices by getting Soul Sacrifice.

[Friendly]

Of course you should be excited! Who needs consumer rights when you can have this:

no issue with [...] online passes, and you even directly supported such practices by getting Soul Sacrifice.

Where did that come from? Online Passes are bullshit (thanks for inventing them, EA). I haven't even used the one that came with Soul Sacrifice yet in case I decide to resell it; been playing it for 2 days and so far it hasn't really clicked with me.

[sjewkestheloon]

Games have got to the point, in my humble opinion, where the graphics don't really need to improve beyond tightening up the frame rates to a consistent 60fps across the board. From an RPG player perspective, the extra grunt could be interesting for how many more processes can be run at once, potentially opening the option for more complex worlds. Similarly, action titles could have more enemies on screen, bigger areas, more options.

What I don't want out of a console is pretty much everything that they are announcing... I don't want to be always online, I don't want fucking facebook and twatter, I don't want it too be so expensive to develop for that only EA, Activision and MS can publish for it, I don't want hands free controllers, and I don't want cameras in my living room.

At the moment I won't be getting the new consoles, at least not for a few years. I am happy with my trio of current gen consoles and my 3DS alongside my laptop for the occasional PC game.