Are you for real or is this parody? Did you just miss the news of the used game DRM and forced online DRM checks every 24 hours?dave4shmups wrote:I think I've been waaay to quick to write this console off today, and to just verbally slaughter it. I say this after having watched the following video from Adam Sessler-definitely check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kENCgBu2o4
I'm actually kind of stoked for this console now!
PS4 / Xbox One console war
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
I wasn't going to bring this up, but as someone who regularly organizes gaming events for local conventions, this is a pretty big deal to me. Also the local hotels have started charging sizable fees to add wireless access to convention space.Aliquantic wrote:Gaming tournaments will be awesome to run on that, what with needing Internet and using one-use codes
Typos caused by cat on keyboard.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Okay. Please tell me if this analogy is accurate or not.
PCE FX buys a car. Two years later, Spec asks PCE FX to let him borrow his car. In order to drive the car, Spec needs to pay the dealer the total brand new retail price, regardless if PCE FX has paid the car in full prior.
Is this how MS is presenting the "Activation" deal?
PCE FX buys a car. Two years later, Spec asks PCE FX to let him borrow his car. In order to drive the car, Spec needs to pay the dealer the total brand new retail price, regardless if PCE FX has paid the car in full prior.
Is this how MS is presenting the "Activation" deal?
Don't hold grudges. GET EVEN.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Dead serious? You've got to be fucking shitting me.Friendly wrote:-Games will feature a kind of DRM that requires activation; a fee will have to be paid to activate a used game or play a game you own on a different console.
Well, it's nice to see something the WiiU and Vita will cream.
My god manh.
I think it'll be 1/2 the price.Spec needs to pay the dealer the total brand new retail price, regardless if PCE FX has paid the car in full prior.
... who the fuark am I kidding. This is MS here.
"It worked so well for PC's! What could go wrong!!?"
PSX Vita: Slightly more popular than Color TV-Game system. Almost as successful as the Wii U.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
It's also a case of portability - if there's no wireless internet, you have to make sure there's a cable available to plug into. Have fun bringing it to a gaming meet.shmuppyLove wrote:Yeah, I don't know how common this actually is, but for sure there has to be people who can't get proper broadband Internet service. That would suck.
Can you imagine a fighting match being interrupted by "You're not on the internet and your time's up! Gotta close your game now! *trollface*"? Requiring the internet to run your physical, disc copy is the worst thing I can think of that a console has ever done, without exaggerating. Essentially it's ensuring the console dies when they stop supporting it and shut down the servers, unlike older consoles like C64s, Ataris, Nintendos, etc, that have lived on so long as the hardware works...Aliquantic wrote:Gaming tournaments will be awesome to run on that, what with needing Internet and using one-use codes
If you have to be online to install games, this means the physical discs are essentially worthless without the internet until hackers find a way of running them or generating keys for them. Until then, the only difference between having the disc or downloading the game from the internet itself via Games on Demand (if they offer that too for their releases) is the bandwidth cost...
Last edited by BareKnuckleRoo on Tue May 21, 2013 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
If there was any time to do so, now would be the time for Sega to jump back into the hardware market and make a console that (shocker) JUST PLAYS GAMES.
That could be part of their slogan. "Sega...we play games". Marketing done, ship it.
That could be part of their slogan. "Sega...we play games". Marketing done, ship it.

Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
This is the very reason why I won't buy this. Also:BareknuckleRoo wrote:Requiring the internet to run your physical, disc copy is the worst thing I can think of that a console has ever done, without exaggerating. Essentially it's ensuring the console dies when they stop supporting it and shut down the servers, unlike older consoles like C64s, Ataris, Nintendos, etc, that have lived on so long as the hardware works...
DAY ONE!!!opt2not wrote:If there was any time to do so, now would be the time for Sega to jump back into the hardware market and make a console that (shocker) JUST PLAYS GAMES.
That could be part of their slogan. "Sega...we play games". Marketing done, ship it.
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shmuppyLove
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Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Not accurate.Specineff wrote:Okay. Please tell me if this analogy is accurate or not.
PCE FX buys a car. Two years later, Spec asks PCE FX to let him borrow his car. In order to drive the car, Spec needs to pay the dealer the total brand new retail price, regardless if PCE FX has paid the car in full prior.
Is this how MS is presenting the "Activation" deal?
A car is a mechanical device that exhibits obvious and significant loss of value over time, mainly due to wear and tear from normal usage. This does not apply to a software license (which, when it comes down to it, is just a collection of ones and zeroes).
I get where they're coming from, but it ignores a loss in perceived value that an older or second-hand game naturally incurs.
It would be cool if the activation price declined over time, that might actually work.
What this type of system completely obliterates though is any type of secondary market, or any ability a user has to sell something they've purchased to another user for a mutually-acceptable price. But, well ... Steam already did that, and has done so very successfully for many years, so they're hardly breaking new ground, even for physical releases -- I recently bought a PC game that was actually just a Steam activation code. Not 100% sure, but I don't think I can sell that to someone else?
xboxonedealwithit.gif
Last edited by shmuppyLove on Tue May 21, 2013 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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VixyNyan
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Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"

Oops...

Yes please~! <3opt2not wrote:If there was any time to do so, now would be the time for Sega to jump back into the hardware market and make a console that (shocker) JUST PLAYS GAMES.
That could be part of their slogan. "Sega...we play games". Marketing done, ship it.
Rebecca Loveheart - Love & Snuggles~ <3
[ TrueAchievements | PSN Profile | Youtube | LiveStreaming ]
Giest118: SDOJ is great and the port will also be great.
moh: play games. they're fun.
[ TrueAchievements | PSN Profile | Youtube | LiveStreaming ]
Giest118: SDOJ is great and the port will also be great.
moh: play games. they're fun.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
LOL
It seems like people who tried to watch the Xbox conference using their 360 + Kinect experienced issues like getting the stream paused or kicked out of it, whenever the word "Xbox" and "Xbox Live" was mentioned
http://kotaku.com/so-the-xbox-one-revea ... -509179256

It seems like people who tried to watch the Xbox conference using their 360 + Kinect experienced issues like getting the stream paused or kicked out of it, whenever the word "Xbox" and "Xbox Live" was mentioned

http://kotaku.com/so-the-xbox-one-revea ... -509179256
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VixyNyan
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Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Rebecca Loveheart - Love & Snuggles~ <3
[ TrueAchievements | PSN Profile | Youtube | LiveStreaming ]
Giest118: SDOJ is great and the port will also be great.
moh: play games. they're fun.
[ TrueAchievements | PSN Profile | Youtube | LiveStreaming ]
Giest118: SDOJ is great and the port will also be great.
moh: play games. they're fun.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
WOW.pestro87 wrote:LOL![]()
It seems like people who tried to watch the Xbox conference using their 360 + Kinect experienced issues like getting the stream paused or kicked out of it, whenever the word "Xbox" and "Xbox Live" was mentioned
http://kotaku.com/so-the-xbox-one-revea ... -509179256

How did they miss this?! Hey Microsoft, your incompetence is showing.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
It's funny, but recently I started to realize that this was probably coming. Computer users have been hearing rumors for over a decade about new DRM-like technologies being used (back in the Pentium 4 days, even), and there have also been rumblings within the last decade about systems restricting used game sales (I seem to recall the rumor being bandied about that the PS3 would do it). Each time it didn't happen gamers breathed easily for the few moments until the next rumor surfaced. Despite the (very reasonable) arguments that no company would ever make such an obviously anti-consumer move, I realized that it was quite likely an attractive proposition for companies that have looked at the infrastructure for complete server-side management of your gaming library (i.e. what Steam has already been doing for years) and that it would be a matter of how much time would pass before it happens.
In some sense Microsoft isn't breaking new ground here. On the other hand, buying games digitally off the Steam storefront has never promised to give you games that you could freely trade and sell, but so long as you have your account available and the software installed at any computer you have access to, you can access your stuff. (And selling games on Steam has been a reality for a long while now.) Steam serves as a sort of "virtual console," giving flexibility about where you play. With cheap PCs capable of playing games that will rival or better the Xbox experience in many arenas, limiting that flexibility is surely a blow to each gamer's freedom to play where and when they choose. Another thing that distinguishes Steam from the Xbox One proposal is that many Steam titles are very, very cheap, and often bundled along with other games. Many of these are older games, but you can expect to pay full retail for Xbox One games for a long period after a game might have received a discount on Steam. Of course, there's nothing that says that Xbox One games couldn't be subject to discounts or specials like Steam. We'll have to see how that works out.
My honest question is, how can anybody support this garbage? XBLA's consignment of games to a dead platform once a new system is released was clear enough, but instead of making any effort to fix this, they've made the XBLA problem apply to the entire platform. The only thing I could see happening for longevity is that, with the move to X86, there might be a chance that backwards compatibility could happen on an Xbox One successor. However, the X86 ISA won't necessarily be with us forever.
Sony fans are rejoicing at the glut of anti-consumer provisions, but at the very least the PS4 will have (I think they do already with the PS3) an XBLA-like system (i.e. tying games to each generation), and it's not yet entirely clear if they could have any ideas in store like Microsoft. Although the "always online" rumors were with us for a long while, some of the extra provisions seem to have been kept pretty closely under wraps for now.
Cripes, somebody's gonna have to make a Console Freedom Index now.
In some sense Microsoft isn't breaking new ground here. On the other hand, buying games digitally off the Steam storefront has never promised to give you games that you could freely trade and sell, but so long as you have your account available and the software installed at any computer you have access to, you can access your stuff. (And selling games on Steam has been a reality for a long while now.) Steam serves as a sort of "virtual console," giving flexibility about where you play. With cheap PCs capable of playing games that will rival or better the Xbox experience in many arenas, limiting that flexibility is surely a blow to each gamer's freedom to play where and when they choose. Another thing that distinguishes Steam from the Xbox One proposal is that many Steam titles are very, very cheap, and often bundled along with other games. Many of these are older games, but you can expect to pay full retail for Xbox One games for a long period after a game might have received a discount on Steam. Of course, there's nothing that says that Xbox One games couldn't be subject to discounts or specials like Steam. We'll have to see how that works out.
My honest question is, how can anybody support this garbage? XBLA's consignment of games to a dead platform once a new system is released was clear enough, but instead of making any effort to fix this, they've made the XBLA problem apply to the entire platform. The only thing I could see happening for longevity is that, with the move to X86, there might be a chance that backwards compatibility could happen on an Xbox One successor. However, the X86 ISA won't necessarily be with us forever.
Sony fans are rejoicing at the glut of anti-consumer provisions, but at the very least the PS4 will have (I think they do already with the PS3) an XBLA-like system (i.e. tying games to each generation), and it's not yet entirely clear if they could have any ideas in store like Microsoft. Although the "always online" rumors were with us for a long while, some of the extra provisions seem to have been kept pretty closely under wraps for now.
Cripes, somebody's gonna have to make a Console Freedom Index now.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
While they already do have an XBLA-like game store, there's no way in hell they'll pull any stunt like what Microsoft plans with the Xbox One unless their marketing department has an acute case of mental retardation; just look at all the backlash Microsoft has gotten since the announcement. Sony much be practically giddy seeing this negative backlash and are almost certainly planning how to take full advantage of it with the PS4 ("buy our console, it has none of that DRM bullshit and it's awesome"). Out of bad luck, Nintendo's sort of missed an opportunity here as the Wii U is newly released, not very powerful in terms of being 'next-gen', and has that obnoxiously bulky-looking controller they're promoting big time.Ed Oscuro wrote:Sony fans are rejoicing at the glut of anti-consumer provisions, but at the very least the PS4 will have (I think they do already with the PS3) an XBLA-like system (i.e. tying games to each generation), and it's not yet entirely clear if they could have any ideas in store like Microsoft.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
DRM games and game activation fees? this next gen iteration from MS will be doomed
RegalSin wrote:America also needs less Pale and Char Coal looking people and more Tan skinned people since tthis will eliminate the diffrence between dark and light.
Where could I E-mail or mail to if I want to address my ideas and Opinions?
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Yeah, I think we can rule that out a Microsoft-like scheme: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013- ... ne-for-ps4
I'm also highly amused by how strongly staid "traditional media" have tried to miss the point:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one/ <- WE HAVE AN EXCLUSIVE, WE MUST PROTECT THE EXCLUSIVE so you'll be finding nothing relevant here, I just wanna talk about my feeeelings
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/05/21/ ... t-console/ <- "Can the new Xbox One save gaming?" There are three uses of the word "online" in that article.
edit: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/techn ... .html?_r=0 The only appearance of the word "online" is in "online video."
I'm also highly amused by how strongly staid "traditional media" have tried to miss the point:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2013/05/xbox-one/ <- WE HAVE AN EXCLUSIVE, WE MUST PROTECT THE EXCLUSIVE so you'll be finding nothing relevant here, I just wanna talk about my feeeelings
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/05/21/ ... t-console/ <- "Can the new Xbox One save gaming?" There are three uses of the word "online" in that article.
edit: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/techn ... .html?_r=0 The only appearance of the word "online" is in "online video."
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Very well. Does anyone need to pay MS for the full price of Windows in order to borrow a laptop? Or if they buy it second-hand?shmuppyLove wrote:
Not accurate.
A car is a mechanical device that exhibits obvious and significant loss of value over time, mainly due to wear and tear from normal usage. This does not apply to a software license (which, when it comes down to it, is just a collection of ones and zeroes).
I get where they're coming from, but it ignores a loss in perceived value that an older or second-hand game naturally incurs.
It would be cool if the activation price declined over time, that might actually work.
What this type of system completely obliterates though is any type of secondary market, or any ability a user has to sell something they've purchased to another user for a mutually-acceptable price. But, well ... Steam already did that, and has done so very successfully for many years, so they're hardly breaking new ground, even for physical releases -- I recently bought a PC game that was actually just a Steam activation code. Not 100% sure, but I don't think I can sell that to someone else?
xboxonedealwithit.gif
I'd have no problem with all this if you didn't need the disc to launch the installed game, as that way one would be paying for the license to the data on the HDD. Otherwise they're double-dipping. I never needed to pay Sega again for the right to use the data contained on my used Sonic 3 or Sonic and Knuckles, and that was ones and zeroes too.
Don't hold grudges. GET EVEN.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
@ Specineff: Nah, I wouldn't give up your analogy that quickly. It seems different on the surface but I think we can find out the situations are surprisingly similar in important ways, and finding out why they're different mainly exposes differences in how the consumer is expected to pay.
Competition alone will serve to show that, if we are indeed talking just about the software (as separate from other considerations i.e. the collectability of a game, clearly not much of a consideration with the Xbox One), then old software is not immune from competition either. Obsolescence issues (an old system, losing its multiplayer fan support, losing official support, etc.) only make it much steeper. Yet the only reason a retailer might chuck out a new game without selling it is that they want to increase sell-through for their shelf space, and keeping an old game on the shelf at full price, out of spite, only works if you're Sears.
The difference between the car and software is apparently just that the sources of decline for the value of the car are competition (i.e. becoming obsolete) and wear; while the sources of decline in value of software lie in a variety of factors including competition, incompatibilities, and other things that cause obsolescence, like having the system wear out so that you can no longer play your XBLAH library. In fact, I find that the situations are indeed quite similar - the rate of depreciation set by used car salesmen who want you to lose as much money as possible to them, and the rate of depreciation set by game retailers that want you to lose as much money as possible to them by keeping the software cost as high as possible, are merely abstractions set to serve the needs of the sellers, rather than a true reflection on what happens to "real value" (if we can pretend for a moment there is such a thing, meant here mainly to illustrate I'D BUY THAT FOR A DOLLAR).shmuppyLove wrote:Not accurate.Specineff wrote:Okay. Please tell me if this analogy is accurate or not.
PCE FX buys a car. Two years later, Spec asks PCE FX to let him borrow his car. In order to drive the car, Spec needs to pay the dealer the total brand new retail price, regardless if PCE FX has paid the car in full prior.
Is this how MS is presenting the "Activation" deal?
A car is a mechanical device that exhibits obvious and significant loss of value over time, mainly due to wear and tear from normal usage. This does not apply to a software license (which, when it comes down to it, is just a collection of ones and zeroes).
Competition alone will serve to show that, if we are indeed talking just about the software (as separate from other considerations i.e. the collectability of a game, clearly not much of a consideration with the Xbox One), then old software is not immune from competition either. Obsolescence issues (an old system, losing its multiplayer fan support, losing official support, etc.) only make it much steeper. Yet the only reason a retailer might chuck out a new game without selling it is that they want to increase sell-through for their shelf space, and keeping an old game on the shelf at full price, out of spite, only works if you're Sears.
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Jonathan Ingram
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Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Makes sense, I guess. How else would MS be supposed to deactivate the game that you "lent" to you friend on your Live account should you take your console completely offline to preserve the said game for yourself. Answer: by enforcing a mandatory connection check, of course. The rumors were true, folks. Xbox One comes with a full-blown online DRM.Friendly wrote:It gets worse:Kotaku: If I’m playing a single player game, do I have to be online at least once per hour or something like that? Or can I go weeks and weeks?
Harrison: I believe it’s 24 hours.
Kotaku: I’d have to connect online once every day.
Harrison: Correct.
I sincerely hope that Sony have enough sense in them not to follow Microsoft`s lead in regards to online and offline passes. Playstation is much more of an international brand than Xbox is and I hope they realize the importance of uninterrupted DRM-free offline play in many of the world`s regions(especially developing countries) and the significance of a used games market in places like Japan.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Hmm, if silver accounts are still free, everyone make a new account for every game they buy. 

Typos caused by cat on keyboard.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
If Sony's people stay true to their word - and they've gone on the record about this - PS4 won't require always online at all. Therefore, one method (the most obvious and flexible one) of Xbox One-like DRM is out of the picture. The only other method that's likely is, however, one that's been mentioned in connection with Sony - physical alteration of the disc on first read. But there's no special reason to expect this to be happening.
Has it been confirmed that you'll need to have a for-pay account to do any multiplayer gaming on the Xbox One?Jeneki wrote:Hmm, if silver accounts are still free, everyone make a new account for every game they buy.
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Necronopticous
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Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
LOL, the guy @ the Retrogaming Roundtable who gave me so much grief about stating the always online rumors were probably based on facts...
...is now going to lengths to state that Sony might be doing the same thing.
quoting leaks < PURE UNADULTERATED SPECULATION!

...is now going to lengths to state that Sony might be doing the same thing.
quoting leaks < PURE UNADULTERATED SPECULATION!

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Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Everything that's terrible about gaming in one package - door now wide open for Sony to come in a take the industry back by simply not being idiots.
It's full on comedic at the moment - though of course they could reverse this at E3 with good old fashioned games and not 30+ mins of talk about TV.... :/
It's full on comedic at the moment - though of course they could reverse this at E3 with good old fashioned games and not 30+ mins of talk about TV.... :/
"It's really the only sensible thing to do, if its done safely. Therapeutically there's no danger involved."
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Wow! I know which console I'm buying next! noneNecronopticous wrote:Highlights for those who missed the reveal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbWgUO-Rqcw
SHMUP sale page.Randorama wrote:ban CMoon for being a closet Jerry Falwell cockmonster/Ann Coulter fan, Nijska a bronie (ack! The horror!), and Ed Oscuro being unable to post 100-word arguments without writing 3-pages posts.
Eugenics: you know it's right!
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Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
like
Last edited by hail good sir on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
"people are still rightly concerned that a machine -connected to the internet and featuring a camera which is always listening - might be a problem." - Kotaku
Good quote from Digital Press
Good quote from Digital Press
Now you can transfer the Xbox One heat failure experience to your other beloved electronic boxes!TonyTheTiger wrote:And I like the idea that it's apparently designed to allow easy stacking of other devices.Kind of like how consistently failing to have a plan for keeping old software playable in the future, and then making that model the default for the entire system, might be considered trolling?Yeah, but Xbox One is the only name that will actively mess with people. Suddenly "Xbox 1" and "Xbox One" mean completely different things. It feels like trolling.
Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
What he's saying is pretty obvious. We all know the conference was laughably shit and we're enjoying ragging on it, but please (please!) chill on riding the Sony wave. It's... as irritating as usual.Friendly wrote:"Excessive grief", and me specifically? Did you just watch the same conference as the rest of us? Nothing excessive there.charlie chong wrote:seriously this sounds shit but please friendly can you stop this smarmy fanboi shit cos it is quite irritating. sony and xbox are both terrible console providers yet you give one company excessive grief and lick the anus of the other again and again and again and again and again.
Bam, I'm out. MS can forget about any patronage from me. If the PS4 can be sensible enough to not to include the above features, that's where I'll make my home (in two years when there are some games and a price drop.)- Fee for used games.
- No BC (not a surprise)
- Microsoft hopes to implement always online DRM in the future.
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die
ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ALso, this is how SKykid usually posts
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Re: Xbox 3 = Xbox One: "This is rocket science stuff"
Well, I'm glad its shit, It means I don't have a conscience of buying a MS console. Which I have never done, or ever want to do.
Xbox, made console gaming like PC gaming since 2001 (or whenever it was).
As long as my PS3's keep chugging, even PS4 is a hard sell at the moment.
Xbox, made console gaming like PC gaming since 2001 (or whenever it was).
As long as my PS3's keep chugging, even PS4 is a hard sell at the moment.
This industry has become 2 dimensional as it transcended into a 3D world.