FEZ is Boring, Buggy, Badly Designed Bullshit

[BrianC]

There's definitely no shortage of ego's in the acting world either. I need mention only one name. Shatner.

[bcass]

Sure, there's definitely no shortage of egos, but this is a bit more extreme than just having a large ego and needing to be taken down a few pegs. IMO, at least. At the very least it's an unusually visible and repeatedly mean display of insecurities.

I don't think it's any more extreme than having a large ego. It's not like the guy said anything bad about you personally. I've heard infinitely worse things compared to anything Fish has said. You don't have to be insecure to exhibit a controversial opinion, quite the opposite in fact. The way people are getting outraged on behalf of other people is far more telling of those concerned than anything Fish says. The fact of life is that nobody has the right not to be offended by what other people say. Don't like what someone else thinks? Then go about your life as you normally would and stop being an even bigger douch than the guy you're trying your best to be offended by.

[louisg]

Sure, there's definitely no shortage of egos, but this is a bit more extreme than just having a large ego and needing to be taken down a few pegs. IMO, at least. At the very least it's an unusually visible and repeatedly mean display of insecurities.

I don't think it's any more extreme than having a large ego. It's not like the guy said anything bad about you personally. I've heard infinitely worse things compared to anything Fish has said. You don't have to be insecure to exhibit a controversial opinion, quite the opposite in fact. The way people are getting outraged on behalf of other people is far more telling of those concerned than anything Fish says. The fact of life is that nobody has the right not to be offended by what other people say. Don't like what someone else thinks? Then go about your life as you normally would and stop being an even bigger douch than the guy you're trying your best to be offended by.

I think this post pretty much speaks for itself. I'm just gonna laugh because I don't think it's really worthy of a serious reply-- there sure wasn't any serious thought put into it.

[bcass]

I think your post also speaks volumes about you too, and it aint pretty.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's not like the guy said anything bad about you personally.

still lollin'

There's definitely no shortage of ego's in the acting world either. I need mention only one name. Shatner.

Everybody loves the Shat now. Even the people who used to hate him have been won over, or at least they had a chance to get it off their chests at the Shat roast. I bet the TekWar game is better then Fez, too.

[trap15]

[bcass]

still lollin'

That seriously wasn't worth the edit dude.

[Hagane]

Don't like what someone else thinks? Then go about your life as you normally would and stop being an even bigger douch than the guy you're trying your best to be offended by.

You should follow your own advice, I think.

[Ed Oscuro]

I had the strange feeling it's my duty to point out every time I notice somebody rolling out that bankrupt bit of "well you weren't insulted by it" non-argumentation. I am doing my best to restrain myself from doing a reductio showing what would happen if anybody actually believed that.



Excuse my faux outrage over your faux outrage over my faux outrage, etc.

[bcass]

Don't like what someone else thinks? Then go about your life as you normally would and stop being an even bigger douch than the guy you're trying your best to be offended by.

You should follow your own advice, I think.

Nice try, but I don't get offended by anything, so the quote hardly applies. I'm just sitting on the sidelines having a good laugh at the people trying as hard as possible to be offended by Mr Fish's somewhat tame opinions.

[Moniker]

I don't remember The Passion all that well (and have no desire whatever to rewatch it.. I'd rather watch the Saw movies for that kind of thing), but as far as I recall, it's pretty much in line w/ the Gospels. A Jewish crowd, led by the high priests and Pharisees, condemn Jesus, whereupon the Romans execute him in horrorshow fashion. See, eg., John 18 & 19.

There is somewhat of a development and things get generally more anti-jewish in the newer gospels. And there are also some non-canonical gospels and writings from the formative years of early Christianity that are way worse than anything that actually made it into the bible as far as this topic goes. "Jesus, Interrupted" by Bart Ehrman is a good read which touches on this as well. Gogo OFFTOPIC!

Hrm.. I just reviewed M,M,L,&J (KJV). It seems pretty similar, except that John explicitly says Jews, whereas the others say "the multitude," which is certainly referring to the Jewish community. Unless you weren't referring specifically to the condemnation? I think I've heard of 'Jesus, Interrupted' before. I'll have to check it out.

Sure, there's definitely no shortage of egos, but this is a bit more extreme than just having a large ego and needing to be taken down a few pegs. IMO, at least. At the very least it's an unusually visible and repeatedly mean display of insecurities.

I don't think it's any more extreme than having a large ego. It's not like the guy said anything bad about you personally.

Methinks you're missing the point others are trying to make, and I'm bored enough to try and explain. It's not so much judging whether the fellow is an asshole or not, and deciding not to support assholes. It's that he's a highly visible representative of the indie gaming community, and he's behaving in such a way that negatively impacts the perception of the community, and the way the community relates amongst itself and with others (notably, Japanese gaming).

It doesn't quite matter whether he or anyone else thinks he ought to be a representative; to the movie, the long gestation and popularity of his game, and not to mention his pathological desire to be a provocateur, make it so. With every thoughtless and/or caustic remark, he makes the world of gaming a slightly shittier place to be. I don't personally think he's quite iconic enough to have a notable impact, but I do think everyone would be a little happier if he'd just shut up. It's a good thing, IMO, that Super Meat Boy and not Fez was the big gateway drug to the indie revolution.

Also Shatner kicks ass. I used to hate on him, until he came out with that Ben Folds collab album.

[Ed Oscuro]

Nice try, but I don't get offended by anything, so the quote hardly applies. I'm just sitting on the sidelines having a good laugh at the people trying as hard as possible to be offended by Mr Fish's somewhat tame opinions.

Dear Sir, I think this ancient philosophical argument adequately describes your ruse.

[bcass]

I've only got one thing to say to baseless accusations like that.

[Skykid]

I can't figure out what all this argument is for. bcass likes the game, so did tons of other folks, where's the issue? If it's not for you, no big deal, play something else. I don't play sports titles because they don't appeal to me - I'd much rather play Fez tbh - but I don't expect all the folks who do enjoy them to suddenly stop.

I realise the game has some coding problems but I understand it plays well enough.

I'm a little surprised by certain poster's sentiments, especially Udderdude, who I would expect to be more open minded regarding efforts in the indie scene. If the game is actually an unplayable mess, I take it all back, but all I managed to get from the ranting is people don't like Fish because he's an arrogant twat (with a superb ability to self publicise his work for free), the game isn't entirely original (hardly a first), and its challenge elements don't consist of enemies to slice (just like the good old Atari days!).

Also, Fish might have started a shitstorm with his initial comment at GDC - and it wasn't nice to belittle the guy - but it doesn't really change the fact he was right: Japanese gaming has fallen off the wagon and is constantly struggling to ape western software, often with painful results. Fish could have phrased the point a little better, is all.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

i remember when platformers were challenging and had sequence breaking and wall jumping and replayability 'n shit and puzzle games actually required more thought than stand there button mashing until you brute force each room (yes it's possible to do this with each room compared to puzzle games that require word-entry, etc, and pretty much was how the final puzzle was solved, I'm not sure if they've found how solve the final puzzle via non-brute force means).

Both endings are also pretty shitty, in a way that seems to think abstract = depth, but just flat out feels devoid of real meaning or substance. Fez reminds me of a sort of pseudointellectual game that represents an overall decline in the state of gaming (casual and easy with no punishment for mistakes are what the masses seem to like).

"People don't talk about anything."
"Oh, they must!"
"No, not anything. They name a lot of cars or clothes or swimming-pools mostly and say how swell! But they all say the same things and nobody says anything different from anyone else. And most of the time in the cafes they have the jokeboxes on and the same jokes most of the time, or the musical wall lit and all the coloured patterns running up and down, but it's only colour and all abstract. And at the museums, have you ever been? All abstract. That's all there is now. My uncle says it was different once. A long time back sometimes pictures said things or even showed people."

"Peace, Montag. Give the people contests they win by remembering the words to more popular songs or the names of state capitals or how much corn Iowa grew last year. Cram them full of non-combustible data, chock them so damned full of 'facts' they feel stuffed, but absolutely `brilliant' with information. Then they'll feel they're thinking, they'll get a sense of motion without moving. And they'll be happy, because facts of that sort don't change. Don't give them any slippery stuff like philosophy or sociology to tie things up with. That way lies melancholy. Any man who can take a TV wall apart and put it back together again, and most men can nowadays, is happier than any man who tries to slide-rule, measure, and equate the universe, which just won't be measured or equated without making man feel bestial and lonely. I know, I've tried it; to hell with it. So bring on your clubs and parties, your acrobats and magicians, your dare-devils, jet cars, motorcycle helicopters, your sex and heroin, more of everything to do with automatic reflex. If the drama is bad, if the film says nothing, if the play is hollow, sting me with the theremin, loudly. I'll think I'm responding to the play, when it's only a tactile reaction to vibration. But I don't care. I just like solid entertainment."

currently i am fantasizing about ray bradbury giving fish a well deserved kick to the balls

I've only got one thing to say to baseless accusations like that.

i like how the pixels in the sunglasses are of inconsistent sizes with respect to the pixels that make up the rest of the sprite

[KAI]

I need to play this shit, fuck Ibara.

[bcass]

i remember when platformers were challenging and had sequence breaking and wall jumping and replayability 'n shit and puzzle games actually required more thought than stand there button mashing until you brute force each room (yes it's possible to do this with each room compared to puzzle games that require word-entry, etc, and pretty much was how the final puzzle was solved, I'm not sure if they've found how solve the final puzzle via non-brute force means).

Wow. Rarely has so much ill-informed wrong ever been compressed into a single paragraph. Epically lol-some.

[trap15]

Glad I'm not the only person who thinks of him when I hear of this game

[Moniker]

i remember when platformers were challenging and had sequence breaking and wall jumping and replayability 'n shit and puzzle games actually required more thought than stand there button mashing until you brute force each room (yes it's possible to do this with each room compared to puzzle games that require word-entry, etc, and pretty much was how the final puzzle was solved, I'm not sure if they've found how solve the final puzzle via non-brute force means).

Wow. Rarely has so much ill-informed wrong ever been compressed into a single paragraph. Epically lol-some.

Iknowrite? Fuck this forum, let's go get a beer. I also need someone to apply topical cream to my hemorrhoids.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Wow. Rarely has so much ill-informed wrong ever been compressed into a single paragraph. Epically lol-some.

You sure like avoiding naming specific examples. Care to change that habit? I can think of maybe a couple puzzles in the game involving code inputs that can't be brute forced as easily (there's one heart cube one where the button input code only registers if you're standing at a specific spot, and some non-code ones like the anticube that's simply reached via invisible platforms or the clock tower one), so you could theoretically do most code ones by sheer brute forcing 'em in a reasonable amount of time if need be due to the limited number of inputs on the Xbox used for solving puzzles (and there are a lot of cubes obtained via codes), and last I heard, I've not yet heard of the 'solution' for the final puzzle ingame being located somewhere.

[Ed Oscuro]

just sitting on the sidelines having a good laugh

I've only got one thing to say to baseless accusations like that.

Edit: You know, I think what needs to be said is just this (Moniker gave a nice recap of the argument before):

It's no skin off anybody's noses if somebody likes the game, flaws or otherwise.
However it's also no skin off anybody else's nose to admit that some other people might not like the game, or that they might have some principled reason for wanting to boycott the developer (so far).
A bad move from the anti-Fishism camp would be to try to force the other side to share that opinion, but we aren't. What is happening, however, is people (like bcass) are trying to say that it's a bad opinion to have, but this is silly.
Simple parity between opinions here. Accusing one side of trying to suppress the other is ironic because that's what's appearing to be attempted here (very badly), and hypocritical.

Live and let live, but independent gaming deserves better promotion than this. Kind of like how the Xbox deserves a better promoter than Sweet Billy...well, maybe, maybe not

[papa_november]

[Udderdude]

Wow, bcass actually changed his avatar. That is hilarious. Especially since the crappy internet meme references crammed into the game like that ruin any atmosphere it might have been trying to build up.

[Casey120]

I think this one has run it's course .
Any other six dollar game no one really gives a shit about we can nerd rage on for nine pages ?

Defend or attack , take you stance now

[AntiFritz]

Wow, bcass actually changed his avatar. That is hilarious. Especially since the crappy internet meme references crammed into the game like that ruin any atmosphere it might have been trying to build up.

Yeah, I don't know why he's so defensive.

I'm just sitting on the sidelines having a good laugh at the people trying as hard as possible to be offended by Mr Fish's somewhat tame opinions.

Sure is sitting on the sidelines when the arguments going to go on as long as you keep replying.

[bcass]

You sure like avoiding naming specific examples. Care to change that habit?

The paragraph I quoted was such hyperbolic bullshit it really wasn't worth anybodies time picking apart. The kindest thing to do is to just sit and laugh at it.

However it's also no skin off anybody else's nose to admit that some other people might not like the game, or that they might have some principled reason for wanting to boycott the developer (so far).

Absolutely no problems with people not liking the game. However, when they start spouting glaring sweeping innacuracies about the game (as demonstrated in almost every single page of this topic), much of it 2nd and 3rd hand information, then that's where the hilarity ensues.

Like I said before, there's zero obligation for me to correct these people's ignorant opinions. If they can't be bothered to find the facts themselves then it's certainly not my job to do it. As for the Fish-hate brigade and hangers-on, well, if it isn't already obvious how self-defeating that is then there's probably little hope for those people.

[O. Van Bruce]

Your messages would be better recieved if they weren't packed with tons of arrogance... Even if the other party is arrogant, your point won't become clearer or better by mimicking then.

Anyway, you are probably on troll mode...

[bcass]

The only trolling posts in this thread come from people who clearly haven't played the game or haven't played very much of it yet feel the need to constantly spout wild inaccuracies about it like they're some kind of authority on the subject.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

The paragraph I quoted was such hyperbolic bullshit it really wasn't worth anybodies time picking apart.

gee that's convenient, we're all wrong but you refuse to state why except 'bcuz bcass sed so'

loltroll

[bcass]

Have you played the game?