Layer Section or Soukyugurentai?

[MrOldSchoolCool]

I know these are pretty similar games in a lot of ways. I was curious how people compared the two.

I can't seem to get the polls on here to work. Just type out your vote.

[trap15]

Polls don't work.

[TLB]

Kamui

[moh]

layer section hands down. that game gets my pussy wet.

[KAI]

Ibara.

[RaidenViper]

Hal 21.

[Never_Scurred]

Cho Aniki, easily.

[jepjepjep]

I've never played Layer Section, but I really like Souky,
so I'm going to have to vote for Donpachi.

[null1024]

I adore Soukyugurentai, but I'd played a billion times more Layer Section. Those games make me wet.


I want to say Souky, but Layer Section has something about it that makes me not want to put Souky over it... I dunno.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

Am I missing something? It's funny to vote for other games?

[Ed Oscuro]

It's funny to put two games in opposition when it's a matter of taste? Play what you like, man.

Layer Section came first, for whatever that's worth.

[EmperorIng]

Of the two, I think Layer Section is a tighter game.

I love both, don't get me wrong - they are both Saturn "must-owns" for me.

As far as soundtrack, I'm not sure. I love both, but I have to give an edge to Tamayo's euro-dance OST over Sakimoto's pulsing electro-orchestral. Both are great, again, but RayForce's soundtrack fits the game's action better, and has a better sense of progression.

RayForce has a style and look to it that trumps the sort of washed-out pre-rendered look of Souky. The sheer spectacle of RayForce (Taito at their finest, really) far exceeds the cool set-pieces of Souky.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I don't find Souky a looker (mostly the Mars Matrix-ugly ships turn me off) and... the game just has problems with its art.
It is, however, what I understand Sega truly wanted Saturn/ST-V to do. Technically even more impressive than Radiant Silvergun dare I say, having seen both in true lo-res RGB glamour.

[EmperorIng]

Soukyogurentai's art is indeed a mixed bag. Great backgrounds in many places, great boss design (Gotta love st2 PERILDAWN, and st1 GAMBITER), but ugly pre-rendered ships and enemies and often washed-out, muddy textures.

I think while it ultimately is a nice-looking game, it's not the gorgeous looker that many reviews, even the one on this site, would have you believe. But maybe I'm spoiled, and perhaps lacking in all good taste!

To again contrast with RayForce, where everything looks perfect, ha ha.

[MintyTheCat]

Layer-Section by far due to the Music, Level Design, Graphics and overall 'feel' whilst playing it. It is one of my favourite Shmups.
Layer-Section is also a fairly commonly found and cheap Shmup.

souky is not bad and has some great Music and the Weapons are cool.

Both are good

[moh]

Layer Section is a tighter game

I like it tight.

[greg]

Layer Section handles the lock on laser better. Souky makes you stop firing to charge up the lock on lasers, so I end up not using it very often. I mainly use it during the pauses between waves of enemies. Layer Section, however, uses two different buttons to handle the two different weapons. Plus, I'm not much of a fan of Raizing.

[null1024]

Layer Section handles the lock on laser better. Souky makes you stop firing to charge up the lock on lasers, so I end up not using it very often. I mainly use it during the pauses between waves of enemies. Layer Section, however, uses two different buttons to handle the two different weapons. Plus, I'm not much of a fan of Raizing.

On the other hand, I love how Souky's laser locks on to all targets in the web, not just beneath you. It all balances out.
And Souky is probably the least like the rest of Raizing's output.

[Kollision]

On the other hand, I love how Souky's laser locks on to all targets in the web, not just beneath you. It all balances out.

Well, Taito responded to that on Raystorm.

And Souky is probably the least like the rest of Raizing's output.

True that.

Out of the two I'd pick Souky.

[louisg]

I think Layer Section is by far a less flawed game, and is the originator. To me, here are the pros and cons:

Soukyugurentai:
* Vertizontal (good for if you don't have a tate setup)
* Has rank control/exploitation, ESPECIALLY when it comes to collecting tons of bombs. I hope you like dodging powerups because that's what you'll be doing.
* Is an easier game to 1cc than Layer Section
+ Has some very dramatic levels that are visually interesting. The game has a lot of atmosphere, kind of like Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun. It's almost as fun to watch as it is to play.
+ The practice mode is very nice
- Has some odd difficulty spikes (st3 boss and going from st4 to st5 come to mind)
- Some of the webs are much less useful than others-- the game gives players a lot of ship/web options but not too many useful ones (at least where survival is concerned). It's kind of like Tyrian or Iridion 2 or something in this regard

Layer Section:
* Tate, and the non-tate mode sucks a lot. So, don't get it if you can't run it in vertical
* This game is hard as nails to 1cc
+ No bombs, no rank exploit-- it all depends on your skill!
+ Graphics are pixeled, not pre-rendered
+ Great soundtrack, and the Saturn version has an arrange mode
+ I think the weapons are better balanced. There is a clear use for either laser or vulcan. In Souky I mostly remember only using vulcan to shoot down missiles.

Both games have great levels and bosses, and interesting strategies. It mostly just depends on what style you prefer.

[gameoverDude]

Actually, I like both about the same. It just depends on which one I'm more in the mood for at the moment.

Rayforce does win on the background effects thanks to hefty use of line-scrolling and more parallax. The battle inside an asteroid is amazing. No bashing intended on Souky, however- it still does look impressive. I don't mind the prerendered look of SG at all.

IMO, the charge delay for Souky's lock-on laser is a fair tradeoff for the wide web coverage.
WRT the soundtrack, it's a dead heat here for me.

[TransatlanticFoe]

Souky's main drawback is you can't shoot and web at the same time. With the web giving scoring opportunity and the gun pumping up the rank, the web is your main weapon and that feels a little off to me - I usually use the red ship as the narrow cone still makes you feel like you're aiming at stuff.

Layer Galactic Lock Force is such a polished experience, not just the continuous stage transitions but the stuff through the stages too. Entering the atmosphere, diving through the clouds, going through the crack in the ground. It's seriously awesome. Souky is a really nice game, but Ray Gun Attack Section beats it hands down for me.

[greg]

On the other hand, I love how Souky's laser locks on to all targets in the web, not just beneath you. It all balances out.
And Souky is probably the least like the rest of Raizing's output.

True and true. That's also why Souky is the only Raizing game I really like. I may be one of the few on here who doesn't like Garegga. I sold mine years ago and haven't missed it.

Also, what louisg said.

[Obiwanshinobi]

The CG in Souky isn't a problem. It's diligently retouched where it was needed. Better than pre-rendered graphics in Cave shmups for sure. Admittedly, the CRT I play it on is ~14'', but on the very same TV DDP DOJ looks cheaper. Art quality aside, Souky on Saturn is one of those very last dog's bollocks shmups.

That's also why Souky is the only Raizing game I really like.

You should find some Fun Weapons™ in Mahou Daisakusen. Was very playable on shmupmame.

[Vamos]

Whats the current state of souky in mame like?I only have the ps port.

[Ed Oscuro]

DDP DOJ looks cheaper

what the

[BIL]

They're both excellent, but Rayforce integrates shooting with lockons more successfully, and its stricter targeting mechanic is punishing but ultimately more satisfying to score with than Souky's web. You should absolutely play both. Neither is very hard to find for the Saturn.

Kamui is easily as good as them, and the best of both worlds in a way, since you get RF's shooting on God-laser steroids with Souky's flexible lockons. I would be tempted to call it the best of the three if it had gone with one-hit kills, which would put the already high intensity through the roof, but at the same time I'd be loathe to change any aspect of this wonderful game's character. All three are permanent residents of my shelf and my top 25.

However, only one has a place in my sig. ;3

[EmperorIng]

What I like about RayForce over Soukyogurentai is that there is actually a reason to use your normal shot (you have to to survive!), whereas in Souky, you rarely use it because if you are playing for score, you are going to be using the lock-on web 95% of the time.

However...
Since Souky is a Raizing game, it's a lot easier to go for the 1CC since rank is a lot more manageable than Taito's "Go Fuck Yourself" school of survival training.

Not that I've 1cc'd either =(
(getting close!)

[null1024]

l=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY6x7RgcwF4]Kamui is easily as good as them,[/url] and the best of both worlds in a way, since you get RF's shooting on God-laser steroids with Souky's flexible lockons. I would be tempted to call it the best of the three if it had gone with one-hit kills, which would put the already high intensity through the roof, but at the same time I'd be loathe to change any aspect of this wonderful game's character. All three are permanent residents of my shelf and my top 25.

why the hell haven't I played this game

It looks jaw-droppingly fantastic [seeing the limbs on a boss scale ever-so-slightly when it walked, things like that get me wet]. It goes down the list of 32bit-era 2D impressive tricks and the game looks crazy-solid. I must have this.

[Bar81]

l=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY6x7RgcwF4]Kamui is easily as good as them,[/url] and the best of both worlds in a way, since you get RF's shooting on God-laser steroids with Souky's flexible lockons. I would be tempted to call it the best of the three if it had gone with one-hit kills, which would put the already high intensity through the roof, but at the same time I'd be loathe to change any aspect of this wonderful game's character. All three are permanent residents of my shelf and my top 25.

why the hell haven't I played this game

It looks jaw-droppingly fantastic [seeing the limbs on a boss scale ever-so-slightly when it walked, things like that get me wet]. It goes down the list of 32bit-era 2D impressive tricks and the game looks crazy-solid. I must have this.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45534