Best version of MAME for Mushihimesama Futari BL?

[Swiftwinter]

What's the best version of MAME to play this game that has the best slowdown emulation? I'm currently playing it on 0.146u4 and the slowdowns are literally nonexistent, making the game pretty hard especially since I've only been playing this game for like a week. Watching videos of PCB and Xbox gameplay shows just how much slowdown is missing on MAME, so I'd like to know which version best emulates it. Or if there are just settings I can toggle on MAME which aid in replicating the emulation I'd be happy to know what those are as well. Thanks.

[BPzeBanshee]

Repeating the same shit over again here:

The CV1000 games got ripped out after .143u9 thanks to a non-existant Cease and Desist letter from Cave. Any version you find other than Slowpoke MAME is going to be based on that driver, ergo no slowdown efforts. If you can find Slowpoke MAME it allows for a sprite buffer speed setting but that is still not accurate (although Deathsmiles comes close when set to 63% to the apparently perfect 360 port).

[Cagar]

Also, CV1000 games have so big input-lag (2-4 frames) that it's unplayable after you've read this.

[Vamos]

Also, CV1000 games have so big input-lag (2-4 frames) that it's unplayable after you've read this.

Well so far ive managed 300mill original futari 50 mill in mushi original and a C in ibara all with zero slowdown (defgault blitter ) and said input delay so i dont think this "unplayable" nonsense is true at all.

[Cagar]

Also, CV1000 games have so big input-lag (2-4 frames) that it's unplayable after you've read this.

Well so far ive managed 300mill original futari 50 mill in mushi original and a C in ibara all with zero slowdown (defgault blitter ) and said input delay so i dont think this "unplayable" nonsense is true at all.

Alright let me fix it
Also, CV1000 games have so big input-lag (2-4 frames) that it affects your performance.
I've played it too, but I can't stand deaths caused by input lag when trying slip between some bullets.

[Vamos]

I found playing it exclusively i just adapted but yeah dont switch games between cv1000 and something on shmupmame then you will notice it alot .

[Cagar]

You can't adapt to having less reaction speed, and still play as good as without it. Fact.

[trap15]

Don't. You're doing CAVE and yourself a massive disservice by playing these games without the correct performance.

thanks to a non-existant Cease and Desist letter from Cave

What makes you think it's non-existant? I got a C&D for doing something far less damaging. I even shared it as proof. I'm 100% sure the one to MAMEdev is legit. And anyone who knows me knows I don't say 100% sure unless I really am.

[IseeThings]

Mamedev wouldn't have pulled a bunch of versions and changed old sources if it wasn't legit. (A complete overreaction if you ask me, but..)

The irony however is the driver in the form it appeared is my driver and I've seen no such letter.

[BPzeBanshee]

I say 'non-existant' because everything about the whole business with how CV1000 came in and consequentially came out of MAME is fishy to me. You guys aren't the first to retort 'oh it exists allright' but come up short on proving it (showing the damn letter), and I've said the same thing I've said before:

As far as I'm concerned the letter only exists because a couple of chaps in MAMEdev (who are known for keeping secrets and pulling drivers out/not including them for other matters) say so, and everyone else is just going by their word. I'm supposed to just take your word for it, like some authority figure? Yeah right. Call me distrustful but I'll believe it's a simple matter of reading a C&D and complying with it, with no hidden discussions behind closed doors, at all - when I see it.

Until then, I'm shoving 'non-existant' into every mention of the C&D letter I make until someone up there gets annoyed enough to either ban me or prove it to shut me up. Now we can agree to disagree on my values on this, or I can put my DEL hat on about this for shits and giggles (ZIONIST CONSPIRACYYYY!!!), or maybe a mod decides this thread should be locked, because this thread is basically done.

[trap15]

I disagree with the fact that a letter exists, thus I will continue to say that it doesn't.

[BPzeBanshee]

I disagree with the fact that a letter exists, thus I will continue to say that it doesn't.

fact

^ this I'm not seeing. You're telling me a meteor hit the ground based on nothing but a crater: no meteor, no meteor crash.

[Nana]

The game is still available to purchase new, for rather cheap no less. It's even region free. Do you have an Xbox 360 at all? If so, please just go get the actual game. If not, then a 360 is one of the best purchases you can make for current shooters.

[matrigs]

what exactly does it matter if there ever was a c&d letter or not?

[BPzeBanshee]

I didn't even want to make a big fuss out of it but naturally 4chan15 and co wanted to draw it out, so here goes.

what exactly does it matter if there ever was a c&d letter or not?

This:

the whole business with how CV1000 came in and consequentially came out of MAME is fishy to me

It's a matter of honesty: MAMEdev were being secretive right from the very beginning to end during the time of the official driver, and by hiding the letter and making the overreaction they did (as opposed to 4chan15 who as he said did a wonderful job of showing the C&D directed at Ketsui Arrange) they're looking a lot like they've got stuff to hide. I'm not particularly happy about this at all, especially considering the last person who questioned how this happened at the time got banned as a result.

Like I said, I'll believe MAMEdev were being honest about the events at the time when they can be honest enough to show that the letter existed in the first place. I'll believe it when I see it. It's that fucking simple.

[shmuppyLove]

This is the best way to play Futari BL:

[matrigs]

I didn't even want to make a big fuss out of it but naturally 4chan15 and co wanted to draw it out, so here goes.

what exactly does it matter if there ever was a c&d letter or not?

This:

the whole business with how CV1000 came in and consequentially came out of MAME is fishy to me

It's a matter of honesty: MAMEdev were being secretive right from the very beginning to end during the time of the official driver, and by hiding the letter and making the overreaction they did (as opposed to 4chan15 who as he said did a wonderful job of showing the C&D directed at Ketsui Arrange) they're looking a lot like they've got stuff to hide. I'm not particularly happy about this at all, especially considering the last person who questioned how this happened at the time got banned as a result.

Like I said, I'll believe MAMEdev were being honest about the events at the time when they can be honest enough to show that the letter existed in the first place. I'll believe it when I see it. It's that fucking simple.

i just can't find a senseful reason for them to do so. why would they purposely remove a driver from their project?

This is the best way to play Futari BL:



+



+

[nZero]

I'm not particularly happy about this at all, especially considering the last person who questioned how this happened at the time got banned as a result.

Huh?

[IseeThings]

well like I said, I don't have the C&D letter, despite it being my version of the driver that went in (it was based off Luca's old work, but the a vast majority of the key code had been rewritten or replaced at that point) the C&D was apparently sent to Mamedev, I wasn't part of Mamedev at that time.

However, I believe it, because this is Mamedev, and current Mamedev is so lazy they don't seem to want to do anything, getting them to lift a finger or look at anything that doesn't concern them directly is near impossible, so the very thought that they would go through a bunch of older source trees retroactively removing files and acting like they never existed is beyond comprehension unless they felt like they had no choice at all.

Personally I would have just put out an update with the current code on the spot, disabling them going forward, it's not like any official binaries ever existed with the games playable anyway so IMHO simply pulling them (disabling the drivers) on the spot before the next release would have sufficed.

I have a feeling they'll be back in a few months anyway.

[trap15]

I didn't even want to make a big fuss out of it but naturally 4chan15 and co wanted to draw it out, so here goes.

Wat.

I've not been to 4chan in like 5 years.

Besides, name-calling like that generally makes any opinions you have immediately void, just like calling Windows Micro$haft Winblowz!!!.

[matrigs]

I didn't even want to make a big fuss out of it but naturally 4chan15 and co wanted to draw it out, so here goes.

Wat.

I've not been to 4chan in like 5 years.

Besides, name-calling like that generally makes any opinions you have immediately void, just like calling Windows Microshaft Winblowz!!!.

may i ask, completely off-topic what the deal is with "4chan15"? if there is one in the first place.

i think i was the last time on 4chan about 2 years ago before. i think i took a peek a few weeks back and saw the same copypasta, memes and jokes going on so nothing of value was lost.

[CptRansom]

if there is one in the first place.

There isn't one. He's trying to make fun of trap15 and failing because lolnamecalling.

[TLB]

if there is one in the first place.

There isn't one. He's trying to make fun of trap15 and failing because lolnamecalling.

? He succeeded. It's all a matter of perspective.

[xgunnBlaze]

I have a feeling they'll be back in a few months anyway.

Are you implying that CAVE is closing in a few months?

In reality, that would be kind of sad.

[jepjepjep]

What does this stuff do?

[BPzeBanshee]

Huh?

Referring to the argument between mjclark and Haze, which lead to system11 basically going "whelp, this + pirating Fast Striker" == permaban. The discussion got the admin's attention, and I didn't entirely buy his take on the 'cowardice' argument, but clark had a point underlying that and he got effectively silenced for it. All of this was in the TCFC threads. As far as I'm concerned his arguing with Haze basically pissed off system11 so he went looking for shit to throw on him so he could 'legitimately' ban him. We've had this discussion before, and I'm not any less mad about it.

whinge whinge 4chan15

Referring to trap15 taking two words out of my post and keeping the ball rolling on a thread that really should've been locked after the answer was given and then continuing to pick when it's clear I'd rather just state my two cents and drop it already. Not much different from the greenposting he used to and general lulz behaviour (ala 4chan) that he still does IMO, but I digress. I like you man, I really do, but you know that shit gets on my nerves - especially in Development where it's particularly unhelpful. I wasn't exactly trying to make a serious insult out of it fwiw.

i just can't find a senseful reason for them to do so. why would they purposely remove a driver from their project?

Maybe Haze is right and I'm seeing something of a conspiracy when it really is just current/2011 MAMEdev were just 'so lazy they don't seem to want to do anything'. Maybe the little conspiracy theorist in me is having a total insanity streak and saying they're not releasing the letter because there never was one in the first place and they did it as a F*** U statement to the 'freebie' community. My point is to be asking that question in the first place and not just simply accept it because a couple of chaps said so.

[quote"IseeThings"]Personally I would have just put out an update with the current code on the spot, disabling them going forward, it's not like any official binaries ever existed with the games playable anyway so IMHO simply pulling them (disabling the drivers) on the spot before the next release would have sufficed.[/quote]
I don't mean to call you a liar Haze, and as much as I sound considerably insane at the moment I do appreciate you and few others taking me seriously on this, but regarding 'no official binaries' I could've sworn from memory that how it played out was:
- 0.143u9 came out, games were playable (no emulated slowdown, more or less the driver floating around third-party builds now)
- some fixes to the games were made post-release, Pink Sweets boss face colouring etc
- driver gets pulled, "Cave says no "
- 0.143u9 binaries get pulled and recompiled without the driver
I'll gladly admit I'm wrong if this isn't the case, but that's how I remember it, and I'm sure there was some posts covering this in the thread at the time too. Are you saying this didn't happen or that the resubmitted binaries are on stance as the 'official' ones you describe?

[NzzpNzzp]

Referring to trap15 taking two words out of my post and keeping the ball rolling on a thread that really should've been locked after the answer was given and then continuing to pick when it's clear I'd rather just state my two cents and drop it already.

If you're going to make deliberately inflammatory posts you should probably expect people to respond to them, bro.

[BPzeBanshee]

You missed the part where this took off (about two posts before '4chan15'). I expect nothing less than equal response to equal dishing, of course, but I don't see how 'non-existant' can get picked out of the rest of it and isn't considered 'picky'.

[IseeThings]

mamedev.org doesn't offer binaries for u releases (that might change, I'm offering them myself for example)

the u releases were really just source drops so that the public could stay up to date, and had the latest code to test if they wanted. there was a public git mirror back then, but it was considered more of a secret, as opposed to now where the public svn / git are considered official.

the above actually makes the 'u' system a bit more pointless, especially now there are about 4 weeks between even u updates, so that might end up being ditched in the future in favor just offering full releases as the public svns / gits negate the need for the u releases.

the driver was pulled when you suggest, at the same time EVERY source release of MAME with support for those games present, working or not working, was also updated to have them removed, not an insignificant task.

a small amount of work had been done on the driver after that u release (mostly some blending mode fixes) but those never made it into a public u release due to the code being pulled out.

at no point was mamedev.org offering a binary containing support for said games.

I had no say in this, I was not consulted, and like I said, I was not forwarded the C&D, however mamedev aren't going to randomly pull what people are working on for the hell of it, and the driver as in active development by several important significant members of the team at the time; it's actually one of the few times in recent memory where a whole bunch of mamedev members have worked together on something.

[BPzeBanshee]

Ah, that'd explain it. I must've been thinking of MAMEWorld regarding the binaries then, but at least it seems how I recalled the events wasn't too far off. Thanks for the clarification Haze.