Where is the Ibara love?

[gray117]

The bombing mechanics, although part of ibara's legacy, did go against expectation and completely overshadows what appeared to be a potentially interesting weapons platform setup. It just doesn't really present itself in as an approachable manner as many other [cave] shmups. Personally, I really like much of the aesthetics but there's often been the comment that it appeared a little too busy with the sparks/flecks, even for those used to shmups, which probably didn't help first impressions either... combined with the 'invisible' bullet ac appearance...

Arrange/Kuro failed to attract the attention it deserved after the original failed to really stick, and seemed to be a bit more done in the spirit of a step down/apology/peace offering which wasn't exactly met with rabid expectation.

Upon reflection maybe just suffers from 2 games worth of ideas crammed into one?

[Skykid]

1LC

1LC is now = 1 life clear AND 1 loop clear....

which is it?

<<<<SPOILER>>>>


...it's 1 LIFE clear

Sorry that was my own abbreviation, couldn't be bothered to keep writing it out.

[Never_Scurred]

So, how is the emulation? Worth playing?

[trap15]

Lacks a lot of slowdown.

[Hagane]

Ibara is nice, but the milking can get really dumb, even by Yagawa standards. Shooting at a boss that does nothing for 5 minutes is boring.

[trap15]

Garegga stage 3 boss?

[Tigershark]

I have it for the PS2 but it gives me eye ache as I am constantly trying to focus on what is unfocasable! It's the blurry screen that does it in for me 9and it's bloody stupidly hard).

Love BG though. It's a different game entirely and you can't really compare the 2.

[Hagane]

Garegga stage 3 boss?

That one is dumb as hell too, but it's around half of what you get on Ibara.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Clearing Ibara is not as hard as its reputation has it seem. You just have to understand that you can never have 2 spare lives in stock ever for 1 second other than in the final stage and you need to avoid items you don't need, if you need to keep the rank down in order to clear the game. The only thing that lowers the rank significantly is suiciding down to 0 lives in stock. So play with 1 man in stock and whenever you are about to get a 1UP, suicide. If you die a man prior to that, treat it as your suicide. Bombspaming is not required for survival, at all. That's for scoring or if you are good enough to play it at high rank. For basic survival/your first game clear you are better off building up hados for the bosses.

[KAI]

You are making it sound so interesting. I'm thinking about giving vanilla another chance.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

If you watch my 1CC on youtube, that is the type of run you should go for first, not Archer/superplay. People trying to mimic that run is why nobody ever beats it. After you can clear it you can start adding parts to your run to score higher and higher but if you just go for max score at every moment then the rank will eat you, and the bosses too because you won't have any hados.

[TLB]

The bombing mechanics, although part of ibara's legacy, did go against expectation and completely overshadows what appeared to be a potentially interesting weapons platform setup. It just doesn't really present itself in as an approachable manner as many other [cave] shmups. Personally, I really like much of the aesthetics but there's often been the comment that it appeared a little too busy with the sparks/flecks, even for those used to shmups, which probably didn't help first impressions either... combined with the 'invisible' bullet ac appearance...

This is a common misconception of players who don't venture outside the first two stages. The first two stages are extremely dense with points and bombing (bombing mostly in st1; st2 is hadou city); they're sort of a make-or-break foundation for the run. Stages 3-6 feature nowhere near as much bombspam (there are several bombing opportunities in stage 4, but it's still primarily a shooting stage) and are, coincidentally, the difficult stages.

Arrange/Kuro failed to attract the attention it deserved after the original failed to really stick, and seemed to be a bit more done in the spirit of a step down/apology/peace offering which wasn't exactly met with rabid expectation.

Upon reflection maybe just suffers from 2 games worth of ideas crammed into one?

Arrange & Kuro just suck. There's potential for a good game in there somewhere, I'm sure, but they're not fun to play for score. ("Play for score" meaning trying to get all the points, which means a lot of grazing in kuro's case and a lot of not being as fun as the original Ibara in the case of Arrange.)

You have to bomb constantly...in-fact there's probably more bombing than shooting, if you discount the bosses.

Haha what no lol. See above.

It's quite a masterpiece.

[KAI]

I love when people say the games I like suck.

[TLB]

Into masochism? I may have some suggestions for you.

[Hagane]

Arrange & Kuro just suck. There's potential for a good game in there somewhere, I'm sure, but they're not fun to play for score. ("Play for score" meaning trying to get all the points, which means a lot of grazing in kuro's case and a lot of not being as fun as the original Ibara in the case of Arrange.)

Well, I find grazing a lot more fun than having to shoot at a dead body for 5 minutes.

Now, I think Ibara does a lot of things right, but the bad bits mean I'll never invest any serious time with it.

[TLB]

Arrange & Kuro just suck. There's potential for a good game in there somewhere, I'm sure, but they're not fun to play for score. ("Play for score" meaning trying to get all the points, which means a lot of grazing in kuro's case and a lot of not being as fun as the original Ibara in the case of Arrange.)

Well, I find grazing a lot more fun than having to shoot at a dead body for 5 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPLSqO82xF8

Watch it carefully and come back to apologize. We'd all appreciate a nice breakdown of the times spent firing at dead bodies.

[Hagane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPLSqO82xF8#t=2m39s

You are right, it's almost 4 minutes of doing nothing and getting points for it. Not 5. Lots of fun!

[Skykid]

You have to bomb constantly...in-fact there's probably more bombing than shooting, if you discount the bosses.

Haha what no lol. See above.

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPLSqO82xF8

Awful lot of bombing going on in that stage.

[ptoing]

That has to be some of the most inanely boring boss milking ever.

[TLB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPLSqO82xF8#t=2m39s

You are right, it's almost 4 minutes of doing nothing and getting points for it. Not 5. Lots of fun!

It's also a relaxing break from the mental taxation of a game. Remember the pause button controversy that recently swept shmups forum like wildfire? It's a well-received, natural reprieve after the first two stages of intense maneuvering and score-hoovering. No chetz involved. I thank YGW-sama every time I reach it; not only is it relaxing, but it offers enough time for a drink, a new cigarette, a fap, rubbing one's eyes and scratching one's head, answering the phone, and much, much more! Never mind the free extends, which means more of all your resources in the long run.

You have to bomb constantly...in-fact there's probably more bombing than shooting, if you discount the bosses.

Haha what no lol. See above.

...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPLSqO82xF8

Awful lot of bombing going on in that stage.

This is a common misconception of players who don't venture outside the first two stages. The first two stages are extremely dense with points and bombing (bombing mostly in st1; st2 is hadou city); they're sort of a make-or-break foundation for the run. Stages 3-6 feature nowhere near as much bombspam (there are several bombing opportunities in stage 4, but it's still primarily a shooting stage) and are, coincidentally, the difficult stages.

That's... Stage 2!! Yay!! :D You did it!! Next is the number... 3~!!

I understand your need for ganging up while the iron is hot, but you're in direct conflict with facts and our own previous discourse. I guess shmups forum is less of a forum and more of a pub, where people drink and say things to make themselves sound cool instead of working with facts and figures, hard measures, and charitable arguments.

I'll know better next time.

PS: An apology might be in order.

[Skykid]

info

Fair enough, I'm no Ibara expert.

[Hagane]

Sorry man, but giving someone points for doing nothing at all is just plain bad design, no way around it. If I want to relax I prefer a nap or listening to some music, not a(n unavoidable if you want to score well) break in action in the game I'm playing.

[TLB]

Sorry man, but giving someone points for doing nothing at all is just plain bad design, no way around it.

Depends on what you call "scoring well". It's only 2M out of a potential ~36M. jpj currently has a D score and he doesn't even milk that boss (or didn't in the past). Is a C really that much better than an A? It seems like a small difference to me.

It's also just a difference of opinion. It's fairly optional, and most players aren't going to have almost 4 minutes to milk the boss to begin with. It's very difficult to optimize the early parts of the fight the way ACR does. Most players can expect 3 minutes tops.

If I want to relax I prefer a nap or listening to some music, not a(n unavoidable if you want to score well) break in action in the game I'm playing.

If you paused the game to do it mid-run, it would likely be called "cheating". It's also impossible to do during a full run unless you milk the boss. Some people can sleep for short periods of time; these are known as "microsleeps" and I usually find they appear when I've not slept in a day or two ;-]

[jpj]

(n/m dunno why i bother)

[TLB]

Sorry man, but giving someone points for doing nothing at all is just plain bad design, no way around it.

I guess I didn't even address this part. You don't get points for doing nothing. You get the points over an extended period of time based on how quickly and effectively you accomplish earlier objectives. Would it be nice if you could just get those points instantly after succeeding at the previous objectives? Sure, maybe, but it could leave players puzzled as to where all the points came from and it doesn't really fit the flow of the game. Most financial investments don't pay off this way (not in a short term sense, that is to say); you have to invest some time and then wait, and the cleverer you were the earlier, the more you usually stand to make. Just like Ibara boss 2 milking.

[TLB]

it obviously was not designed that way, and is an exploit that some top players discovered

I don't think that can be said. It's a 1:1 match for Earth Crisis, the third boss of the very game Ibara is based on.

if you want to criticise ibara you would be better off talking about how a missed medal on stage 6 can reduce your potential score by 40%

Pretty much. It's such an exciting stage, from start to KOMPUREET. One of the most intense parts of any video game ever.

[brokenhalo]

I think Ibara needs an entirely new mindset, even from Garegga, despite having similar formulae. You have to bomb constantly and score constantly and suicide almost constantly - in-fact there's probably more bombing than shooting, if you discount the bosses.

i had a bit of a breakthrough today. i was fighting the second boss and realized i had two lives and an extend fast approaching, and i thought to myself "wtf is wrong with you? kill yourself!". so i suicided twice, triggered the final form, popped a hadou in his ass, hit the extend and off to level 3 i went. and it was beautiful. suiciding merrily as i went along, stages 3 and 4 were a breeze compared to their usual insanity. i usually game over on the end section of stage 4, but this time i was cutting down those giant airships with relative ease.

my credit ended somewhere in the middle of stage 5, but i've finally figured out what this "yagawa" business is all about. you have to approach this game with a totally different mindset from other shmups, and it's hard to do as it really makes no sense compared to basically every other game in the genre. the moment you think " if i had a few extra lives in stock to plow through stage X i'd surely clear it" is the moment your run ends.

[Hagane]

Would it be nice if you could just get those points instantly after succeeding at the previous objectives?

Indeed it would. Just make it so that after destroying certain parts a new, more difficult boss part appears. And so you get those points by doing something of substance.

it obviously was not designed that way, and is an exploit that some top players discovered

if you want to criticise ibara you would be better off talking about how a missed medal on stage 6 can reduce your potential score by 40%

Considering that the boss is pretty similar to Garegga's stage 3 boss, and that Ibara is a spiritual successor to that game, I wonder if it really is an unintended exploit. Having more reasonable timeouts would help, too.

[trap15]

i had a bit of a breakthrough today. i was fighting the second boss and realized i had two lives and an extend fast approaching, and i thought to myself "wtf is wrong with you? kill yourself!". so i suicided twice, triggered the final form, popped a hadou in his ass, hit the extend and off to level 3 i went. and it was beautiful. suiciding merrily as i went along, stages 3 and 4 were a breeze compared to their usual insanity. i usually game over on the end section of stage 4, but this time i was cutting down those giant airships with relative ease.

my credit ended somewhere in the middle of stage 5, but i've finally figured out what this "yagawa" business is all about. you have to approach this game with a totally different mindset from other shmups, and it's hard to do as it really makes no sense compared to basically every other game in the genre. the moment you think " if i had a few extra lives in stock to plow through stage X i'd surely clear it" is the moment your run ends.

You get it!! That's exactly how it works. Yagawa games are quite unique in that regard. Only take what you need. Don't hoarde. Live life with minimal resources.

Yagawa is zen.

[Never_Scurred]

i had a bit of a breakthrough today. i was fighting the second boss and realized i had two lives and an extend fast approaching, and i thought to myself "wtf is wrong with you? kill yourself!". so i suicided twice, triggered the final form, popped a hadou in his ass, hit the extend and off to level 3 i went. and it was beautiful. suiciding merrily as i went along, stages 3 and 4 were a breeze compared to their usual insanity. i usually game over on the end section of stage 4, but this time i was cutting down those giant airships with relative ease.

my credit ended somewhere in the middle of stage 5, but i've finally figured out what this "yagawa" business is all about. you have to approach this game with a totally different mindset from other shmups, and it's hard to do as it really makes no sense compared to basically every other game in the genre. the moment you think " if i had a few extra lives in stock to plow through stage X i'd surely clear it" is the moment your run ends.

You get it!! That's exactly how it works. Yagawa games are quite unique in that regard. Only take what you need. Don't hoarde. Live life with minimal resources.

Yagawa is zen.