Fire Shark Sprite Problem

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:46 am

hello,

it aint my fire shark but is that kind of graphic/sprite problem a thing which could be repaired?

http://imgur.com/a/v1Elf#0

thanks
gbaplayer

trap15 · Post by **trap15** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:18 pm

First two links are dead.

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:55 pm

they still work if i click on them^^

and the third one?

trap15 · Post by **trap15** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:56 pm

Third one is fine. The top two still don't work.

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:04 pm

there are 3 pictures inside the link.

moh · Post by **moh** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:28 pm

Its hard to tell whether something can be fixed without being able to inspect the board yourself. Just looking at the problem wont tell you much

NWrain · Post by **NWrain** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:57 pm

By any chance are you using a SLG3000?

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:04 pm

NWrain wrote:By any chance are you using a SLG3000?

a what? sorry it aint my pcb jet. i only use a new astro city candy cabinet, all my toaplan games work without problems.

NWrain · Post by **NWrain** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:05 pm

Sorry, it was a stupid question. It's just that I saw a similar effect when you feed composite sync in a scanline generator.

caius · Post by **caius** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:07 pm

Hi gbaplayer, I replied you also via PM.
As someone said, it's nearly impossibile to tell if your board can be fixed judging form the pictures.
But as I said you in private, all is can be repaired if you have skills, time, patience. replacement parts available (ASIC mainly if they are bad) and schematics as well..unless the board is not cracked in two..

Regarding you board , ther sprite issue could be caused by multiple factors.Just to few some: broken DATA track, bad EPROM contaning sprites, bad buffering (74L245) betweem ROM and CPU, bad TTL logic and last but not the least bad custom.Since this hardware uses some custom sprites (and also tiles) controllers in QFP package (see MAME source http://mamedev.org/source/src/mame/vide ... an1.c.html ) , chances are that some pins are lifted from the tracks or , in the worst of case, the custom IC has gone bad.

trap15 · Post by **trap15** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:17 pm

Excellent diagnosis caius, that's a more detailed way of saying what I was going to

caius · Post by **caius** » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:30 pm

trap15 wrote:Excellent diagnosis caius, that's a more detailed way of saying what I was going to

Thanks trap15, I know you are, among the other things, a god in ASM, this is what I'm missing nowadays..I have a great admiration for people like you and Lydux (from X68000 NFG), you have the b..ls, guys!

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:31 am

thanks caius for your reply.
i will let someone in germany check the board first and then send it you caius as soon as i receive it back if the bug is still there.

Post by **system11** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:44 am

Looks like a sprite RAM issue rather than ROM related, and probably related to the OE/CE lines which could very easily be SMT solder fault, or buffer/demultiplexer as listed above.

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:12 am

if its a custom chip failure, could it also be repaired?

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:26 am

gbaplayer wrote:if its a custom chip failure, could it also be repaired?

You would need a donor part and it would have to come from another board. What could be sacrificed at the altar of Fire Shark?

Post by **system11** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:01 pm

gbaplayer wrote:if its a custom chip failure, could it also be repaired?

What Ed said - but honestly I don't think that's very likely at all.

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:01 pm

system11 wrote:
gbaplayer wrote:if its a custom chip failure, could it also be repaired?
What Ed said - but honestly I don't think that's very likely at all.

i will get the pcb next week and then send it to someone here in germany who repairs pcbs.
he is a great guy and ge also fixed my r type leo and repaired my dragon breed pcb.

he does awesome work.

thats his page for those who can read german language:

http://www.wolfgangrobel.de/arcade/parts.htm

Ed Oscuro · Post by **Ed Oscuro** » Sat Apr 06, 2013 1:38 am

system11 wrote:
gbaplayer wrote:if its a custom chip failure, could it also be repaired?
What Ed said - but honestly I don't think that's very likely at all.

yep, don't stress out over this just yet

It's not like Toaplan's custom hardware is a bunch of fragile parts bonded together in an epoxy glob or containing battery protection. It's pretty solid stuff.

I personally have a PCB with custom problems, but there it's just due to a lifted trace (which will be fiddly to repair), not any failure within the custom itself.

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 9:01 pm

the one who tried to repair my fire shark pcb failed.
he said one of the custom chips is broken, thats why only every second line of the sprites is displayed.
some ICs were replaced but that did not fix the problem.

dont know if anybody has some other ideas how to repair the pcb...

maybe i sell it as "broken" here on the board?
maybe some user has the skill to fix it...

caius · Post by **caius** » Sat Apr 27, 2013 10:34 pm

gbaplayer wrote:the one who tried to repair my fire shark pcb failed.
he said one of the custom chips is broken, thats why only every second line of the sprites is displayed.
some ICs were replaced but that did not fix the problem.

dont know if anybody has some other ideas how to repair the pcb...

maybe i sell it as "broken" here on the board?
maybe some user has the skill to fix it...

Hi, could you be more precise about what custom is broken (physically damaged or internally?) and what ICs have been replaced?

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:19 am

@caius: maybe the link helps?

http://www.wolfgangrobel.de/arcade/fs.htm

the article is not finished and i did contact the person again.
i will let you know which ICs he had replaced.
the yellow marked ICs were replaced before he got the pcb. the other areas could be the ones where the problem lies.

but he checked all of those and replaced some ICs...

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:52 am

here is the actual page of wolfgang robel, the man who tried to repair my fire shark pcb.
http://www.wolfgangrobel.de/arcade/fs.htm

http://www.wolfgangrobel.de/arcade/img_ ... rk_rep.jpg

he changed the 74ALS163 (small red) and 74LS173 (small orange) and did sold a pin on the FCU-2 (big red).
every signal is ok before they all come together in BCU-3 (big orange).

and he thinks the problem lies in the BCU-3 custom chip.
is that repairable?

iam considering on selling the pcb.

caius · Post by **caius** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:30 am

gbaplayer wrote:here is the actual page of wolfgang robel, the man who tried to repair my fire shark pcb.
http://www.wolfgangrobel.de/arcade/fs.htm

http://www.wolfgangrobel.de/arcade/img_ ... rk_rep.jpg

he changed the 74ALS163 (small red) and 74LS173 (small orange) and did sold a pin on the FCU-2 (big red).
every signal is ok before they all come together in BCU-3 (big orange).

and he thinks the problem lies in the BCU-3 custom chip.
is that repairable?

iam considering on selling the pcb.

Hi, I'm following this story, very interesteing.Providing that the sprites problem lies really into a defective 'BCU-2' ASIC tile controller, the only cure is to replace it with a known good one.For last I would try a reflow (if the repairer did not) of this ASIC and see what happen.I recently fix a CPS1 pcb with graphical troubles by reflowing the ASIC on the C-BOARD.

P.S:
I have a scrap Out Zone Toaplan pcb with 'BCU-2' ASIC on it but I don't know if it's good.The repairer said it's marked 'BCU-3' but, as far as I know, it should be 'BCU-2' as documented on MAME source:

http://www.mamedev.org/source/src/mame/ ... an1.c.html

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:55 am

@caius: hm...i will get the pcb back today. maybe i should send it to you?

caius · Post by **caius** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:24 am

gbaplayer wrote:@caius: hm...i will get the pcb back today. maybe i should send it to you?

Hi, we could try, as I said in PM I have one spare BCU-2 ASIC from a scrap OutZone board though I don't know if good or less.If we will fail, it won't cost you nothing.Feel free to do as you want.

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:33 am

caius wrote:
gbaplayer wrote:@caius: hm...i will get the pcb back today. maybe i should send it to you?

Hi, we could try, as I said in PM I have one spare BCU-2 ASIC from a scrap OutZone board though I don't know if good or less.If we will fail, it won't cost you nothing.Feel free to do as you want.

i have to sleep that over tonight.
maybe i should sell the pcb...

caius · Post by **caius** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:39 am

gbaplayer wrote:
caius wrote:
gbaplayer wrote:@caius: hm...i will get the pcb back today. maybe i should send it to you?

i have to sleep that over tonight.
maybe i should sell the pcb...

Feel free to do as you want.What would be the price if you put it for sale?

gbaplayer · Post by **gbaplayer** » Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:29 pm

caius wrote:
Feel free to do as you want.What would be the price if you put it for sale?

i think 100€ is fair.
i also paid that.

mikemcbike · Post by **mikemcbike** » Fri May 03, 2013 6:31 am

Hi guys, I'd be highly interested in any results or successful repair attemts to this mentioned Fire Shark PCB. I, myself unfortunately failed in repairing, so someone (hopefully) might be better than me.

By the way, I DID resolder the customs pins...

Greets to everyone,

Mike McBike

shmups.system11.org

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