What are the best shmups of the 16-bit era?

[MrOldSchoolCool]

This is sort of a follow-up question to my topic concerning the MD and Gaiares, but I was curious what people thought.

Give your top 5-10 games...

[Special World]

Gate of Thunder, without doubt. Though the TG-16 is technically 8-bit, maybe?

[BIL]

I'd shortlist the following, divided by MD/PCE/SFC (I can't help thinking of the PCE as more 16 than 8-bit). They're by no means the only shooters I enjoy on these platforms, but they're the ones I'd recommend anyone new to them check out first.

Thunder Force IV aka Lightening Force
Elemental Master
Eliminate Down
Gley Lancer
Same! Same! Same! aka Fire Shark
Hellfire
Twinkle Tale
Super Fantasy Zone
---
Magical Chase
Gate of Thunder
Winds of Thunder aka Lords of Thunder
Nexzr Special
Serei Senshi Spriggan
---
Super Aleste aka Space Megaforce
Bio Metal (JP version has very nice soundtrack, US version has very shit soundtrack)
SDF Macross: Scrambled Valkyrie
R-Type III

[Obiwanshinobi]

Didn't R-Type and Fantasy Zone use 16-bit processors? Then there's the question of PCE. What does define 16-bit era games, at least cosmetically? Hardware parallax scrolling? Bitmaps rotation?

[BIL]

I'd assumed he meant 16-bit consoles only. Although I guess that might bring the AES into the discussion? Eh, I always think MD/PCE/SFC in these topics.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Excluding some home computers would be unfair. Cho Ren Sha is a Sharp x68k game and... whoa, I see Baraduke on the list (PSX port is the daddy, but I'm impressed nonetheless).

[MrOldSchoolCool]

Eh, I always think MD/PCE/SFC in these topics.

That's what I was thinking.

[evil_ash_xero]

Tip Tops:
Thunder Force IV
R-Type III

Very Good:
Musha Aleste
Gate Of Thunder
Seirei Senshi Spriggan

Neat-O:
Battle Mania Daiginjou
Thunder Force III

I like others like GleyLancer, Gaiares, Soldier Blade...etc...but the above are the more stand out ones for me.

[Obiwanshinobi]

If you mean only those three consoles (and their enhanced versions), then:
Gunhed (on Hard)
Eliminate Down
Seirei Senshi Spriggan (Caravan modes)
...
Not that I disliked everything else, Super Aleste being respecteble all around, but at the end of the day I like two buttons, no more in my Compile shmups. This realisation stops me from listing Musha Aleste as well. (Seems to me that Compile felt the same as Zanac Neo - the ultimate Compile shmup - comes back to "just two buttons, no button mashing, thanks" roots.)
R-Type III is respectable too but Delta is a better "R-Type as a console shmup" game (this time around more buttons are welcome).
Nothing wrong with the main mode of Seirei Senshi Spriggan, but it has a bit more input delay than Gunhed, so... Caravan modes to the rescue. Those are so unique, not just for Caravan modes but for all shmups I've played, that - the input lag being bearable in the end - I consider it a must-play game of the era.
Last but not least, I've yet to play Caravan Shooting Collection and BioMetal to any greater extent.
P.S. Oh yes, Strike Gunner S.T.G. port is 2 player, which has to count for something. Just saying, before somebody slags it off.

[Wonderbanana]

Maybe not the best of the era but there are two games from that period I alway go back to - Super Aleste and Soldier Blade.

[Despatche]

current list

aldynes
r-type iii
gate of thunder
gleylancer
nexzr
bari-arm
cho ren sha 68k
super aleste
paranoia
elemental master
crying
slap fight md
sol-feace
down load
psycho chaser
biometal
touhou kaikidan

not enough experience to put down: koutetsu teikoku
one week i will get people to play: xdr

never say the pce is 8-bit. better yet, ignore the very concept of "bits"; numbering each generation was a way better idea.

[louisg]

My top list is pretty much what I posted on the top 25: Nexzr, Soldier Blade, Gate+Lords of Thunder, Thunderforces III and IV, Elemental Master, Space Megaforce... definitely try those if you haven't. And I haven't played much of Eliminate Down but it seems fantastic. Slap Fight MD is also brilliant (be sure to try the remix mode!). And, Axelay is worthy of a mention as well.

[BIL]

not enough experience to put down: koutetsu teikoku

Cool shooter, plays and looks a bit like a horizontal Gun Frontier might've (unlike Project Gun Frontier 2, LOLOL). The lifebar probably looks like bad news, but instead of using it as a crutch for shitty game design the developers correctly treated it as a means of raising the intensity without shutting out console audiences. No undodgeable shitspam, everything's entirely no-missable. Some excellent boss patterns on Hard, and the enemy machine designs are exemplary. Lots of trains, tanks, gunships and Laputa-styled flying fortresses. The blood-red sky and naval battle stages are two of the most atmospheric of the generation.

Firepower feels a bit weak until late in the game and I don't recommend the cart unreservedly (was expensive), but any fan of steam-powered deathmachines and tight hori bullet patterns should give it a look.

[rCadeGaming]

If mentioning bits with the PCE, you just have to give full story to be accurate. Agreed though, numbered generations works better or it becomes a mess with the generation after this.

Not much experience so far, but for now I'd say Gate of Thunder and Bari-Arm (Sega CD version).

[louisg]

If mentioning bits with the PCE, you just have to give full story to be accurate. Agreed though, numbered generations works better or it becomes a mess with the generation after this.

It's so not worth getting hung up on bits. The broader question of whether one system is better/faster/flashier than another has always been so much more complicated than that.

Bari-Arm is pretty cool! I also don't think Spriggan has been mentioned yet. It's not perfect, but if someone is looking for a good 16-bit shmup that hasn't been played into the ground, it's worth checking out.

I'd be curious to see what other off-the-beaten-path 16-bit games people are fans of. Could W-Ring or Violent Soldier be worth investing time into, for example? I see someone mentioned Paranoia, which is one that I haven't checked out a whole lot.

[BIL]

W-Ring

I was tempted to mention it, but I just don't have the experience with it. Liked what I played of the first three stages or so, felt very Konami hori-ish with clean sci-fi graphics and a nice soundtrack. Hunting for the secret entrance to the evil, harder reverse side of each stage was quite fun.

I'd also mention Override (PCE also) as a minor favourite. Fun, easier but very hectic game resembling the Soldier series.

If we're including Granada-style shooting (I guess I am, since I listed Twinkle Tale), Metal Stoker is another good HUCard. Worth a look if you dig strafing! Some very intense boss battles in there. I think I remember you mentioning you were playing it some time ago, louis?

[rCadeGaming]

I don't ever hear anything about U.N. Squadron here.

[trap15]

That's because U.N. Squadron sucks

[chempop]

Not mentioned yet (i think) is Undeadline on Megadrive. Badass game all around.

That's because U.N. Squadron sucks

Neo Geo collectors seem to like it

[rCadeGaming]

I've heard otherwise, but I haven't played it myself.

[BIL]

That's because U.N. Squadron sucks

Neo Geo collectors seem to like it

^No! The only SHUMP for a true Neo Geo BIG TYMER is... (dun dun dunnn)

[Acid_Rain]

What about Super SWIV? Any love for heli and jeep?

[louisg]

W-Ring

I was tempted to mention it, but I just don't have the experience with it. Liked what I played of the first three stages or so, felt very Konami hori-ish with clean sci-fi graphics and a nice soundtrack. Hunting for the secret entrance to the evil, harder reverse side of each stage was quite fun.

I'd also mention Override (PCE also) as a minor favourite. Fun, easier but very hectic game resembling the Soldier series.

If we're including Granada-style shooting (I guess I am, since I listed Twinkle Tale), Metal Stoker is another good HUCard. Worth a look if you dig strafing! Some very intense boss battles in there. I think I remember you mentioning you were playing it some time ago, louis?

Override seems really excellent. It's a shame it's so expensive now. And yep-- I cannot recommend Metal Stoker enough! That game is *awesome*. Better put-together than Granada for sure, though I'm not sure which I like more.

I didn't realize W-Ring had hidden stages like that. I'll have to try it again.

What about Super SWIV? Any love for heli and jeep?

That was the first shmup I bought for my SNES after hauling it back out in the late 90s. It's not perfect, but it gets a lot right. It mostly just falls down in the inspiration category. On the topic of decent Euroshmups from that generation, I liked the Amiga version of Battle Squadron quite a bit, and Lethal Xcess wasn't too shabby either.

That's because U.N. Squadron sucks

Eh, it's not *bad*. It's just outclassed by a lot of other stuff IMO.

[stryc9]

Bari Arm appears to be a bit of an underrated gem at first, especially on the MCD where the only competition is Dennin Aleste, Keio and if you're feeling generous, Silpheed.

But after owning and playing the game on and off for the past year, it has to be said that the challenge is pretty lacking for most of the run, and then a difficulty spike comes out of nowhere making it feel really unbalanced. Most of the game is pretty boring as a result IMO. Impressive graphics though, and the stage complete ditty rocks hard.

Slap Fight MD looks to be one of the best of the 16-bit gen. As far as I'm concerned, it owns most of the other shooters on the machine easily by virtue of the two game modes on offer, both of which are compelling in their own right, and at the end of the day, as much as I like the MD, I think a few of it's premier shooter franchises are overrated. So is that BM Daijinjou game

[Hibachi]

I'd assumed he meant 16-bit consoles only. Although I guess that might bring the AES into the discussion? Eh, I always think MD/PCE/SFC in these topics.

I thought the AES was classed as a suedo 24 bit console as it had wo processors. One 16 and one that was 8bit z80 or something.

Anyway. My favourite STG's from back in the day were on the MD. Namely Hellfire, Thunder Force IV and I'd probably chuck in Tatsujin as well.

The Toaplan games have held up well as I still put them on every now and then but Thunder Force less so.

[Despatche]

oh my god i totally forgot about metal stoker and uh some other game like it

metal stoker is SICK and everyone should play it

[louisg]

oh my god i totally forgot about metal stoker and uh some other game like it

metal stoker is SICK and everyone should play it

I know! Isn't it absolutely killer? There are very few things wrong with it, and it's just tight as hell. That reminds me: I still need to beat it. I've gotten to the last world, which is trippy as hell. Great, great game though. I looked up other stuff by FACE and it was all awful I wonder if the Metal Stoker team did anything else..? Or if they just were more inspired than usual.

I thought the AES was classed as a suedo 24 bit console as it had wo processors. One 16 and one that was 8bit z80 or something.

That's actually the same layout as Genesis, though the NeoGeo AFAIR is clocked faster. It's not clear to me what purpose the z80 serves in both (what memory/other chips they're allowed to access)-- I'd imagine they're there for background tasks like running the music/sound players. On the Genesis, it looks at a glance that it mostly has access to the Yamaha sound chip and then a little bit of shared memory, plus its own (is that correct? Anyone know?). The NeoGeo's may be more generalized. Both pale in comparison speed-wise to the main CPU so I'd guess neither are going to be doing a ton of number crunching, but if I had to guess, it sounds like either can take a significant load off the main CPU.

Things get complex really fast when you start realizing that sidekick processors were really common back then, whether it's throwing a secondary cheap CPU into the system (like the z80), or something more-specific-but-still-programmable like the SNES SPC (runs sound/music programs) or Amiga Copper (can run programs that manipulate graphics without using any CPU). IIRC. If anyone has deep coding knowledge for these and I'm wrong, feel free to set me straight

[trap15]

The Z80 on most dual-CPU systems (e.g., NeoGeo, Genesis, almost every 68k-based arcade hardware) is almost exclusively for sound.

On the Genesis however, you can access some other stuff, so you could offload stuff to it... but there'd be very little point. The Z80 is used exclusively for sound.

Calling either of them 24-bit, even if they were both used for game tasks, is still fundamentally flawed. You can't just add together bus sizes and call it that

[louisg]

The Z80 on most dual-CPU systems (e.g., NeoGeo, Genesis, almost every 68k-based arcade hardware) is almost exclusively for sound.

On the Genesis however, you can access some other stuff, so you could offload stuff to it... but there'd be very little point. The Z80 is used exclusively for sound.

Calling either of them 24-bit, even if they were both used for game tasks, is still fundamentally flawed. You can't just add together bus sizes and call it that

Thanks for the detail! I need some kind of "summon trap15" signal, like the Bat-Signal.

And, yep, bittage has more to do with the largest value number you can manipulate at a time rather than *directly* relating to speed. It got really bastardized by marketing back then.

If memory can be shared between the Z80 and 68k, then why couldn't it be used to speed up game tasks in something like a shmup? Maybe calculate position for some of the simpler objects flying around... Especially considering that a 3mhz Z80 is enough to run a pretty busy game all by itself.

[Squire Grooktook]

Does Axelay count as 16 bit? Surprised to see nobody mention it.