Is a 1CC worthless if you're not going for score?

[TLB]

3x DESTROYED AT A TIME!
took one post to impulsively bring out the weeaboo card 2x COMBO IT'S A NEW WESTERN RECORD

EMOTIONS RUNNING WILD HERE ON SHMUPS FORUM THIS WEEK WITH CONSTANT AD HOMINEM ATTACKS AND BLIND THRASHING OF THE HARD WORK OF PEOPLE THAT ARE DISLIKED FOR THEIR OPINIONNNS, DON'T TOUCH THAT DIAL

Really, though...Just to play devil's advocate and piss a lot of people off, I'll point out that icycalm wrote his books and (I presume, not having read the books) thoroughly explained everything behind each of his points -- while people on shmups forum mention and dismiss it in the same breath WITHOUT even so much as having MENTIONED any factual INFORMATION about it -- only that IN THE USER'S OPINION it is, for example, "bile" and that some users prefer self-mutilation of the genitals over reading someone else's opinion, which he took the time to write a book to explain.

Not going to point out any names as it's just a friendly reminder to be fair when insulting people in the presence of others (others who, possibly, have no experience with the names or info in question). It's difficult to call yourself a proponent of free thought if you don't even like to allow others to form their own opinions independently and based on facts.

[DrTrouserPlank]

This is my biggest problem with these games. I don't like playing pure survival and I actually don't find that scoring makes any difference in my TTL.

Game such as espgaluda 2 (for example) where you can score more in stage 1 than a 1cc can score using basic play are games where I think clearing is meaningless.

Whats worth more? my 5 boss on futari at 200mil or a clear at 180mil?.... it depends what you are looking for. Either way scoring leaves me in an uneasy situation where I always feel that any clear is utterly pointless unless it is accompanied with a "respectable" score.

Been playing progear recently and due to the bullet-canceling mechanic I get the same hollow feeling by just surviving... not that I've got a hope in hell of ever clearing it.

[n0rtygames]

lmao @ people being unable to see the thick sarcasm in Drake's posts. C'mon, besides Gus and... Icycalm (?) who seriously thinks like that.

edit: I just read Seppo Hovi's post and anyone who skips over it for its length will be seriously missing out. 10/10, will read again.

I assume you've read Gus's essay to get that post?
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 33#p869733

Gus's essay is entirely valid and worth a read.

You can play shmups for entertainment, that's fine. You can play for just a paltry 1cc on easy mode. That's fine too. Play the game however you damned well want to play the game. The top scores on leaderboards will always be reserved for those who are prepared to take on the toughest challenges and dedicate obscene amounts of time to playing the game. Yes, it's true there's a masochistic mindset required to play those kind of games and there's a point where it basically stops being fun - but when you get the reward - that's when the fun comes back. Whether the reward is climbing 10 ranks on the leaderboards, a counterstop, whatever.

Of course you don't have to play that way.

If you play a game for a few months to a year, with the 1CC being your goal.. then you achieve that goal. Well done! If your goal is to beat your own personal best and you do it - well done again! It's really down to you to set your own goals and measure your own success in a game.

Nothing is worthless. It's all down to the value you place on it. You'll get different answers depending on who you ask - whether it's a dedicated hardcore player, or someone simply playing for fun.

If you asked me, I'd say "just don't credit feed" - as I feel that takes away from the way the game was designed to be enjoyed. The ability to credit feed on console ports is really there to cater for the most casual of casuals, or to see more of stages in a practise run.

On a port, it doesn't serve the same function as an arcade -- where you have an incentive to put more money in the machine for entertainment. (The Max Power pickup in Cave titles, for instance)

tl;dr: No, a 1cc is not worthless at all.

[KitesAreFun]

Gus's essay is entirely valid and worth a read.

The essay is incoherent; and thus valid only in theory; and thus difficult to ascertain validity. What exactly are you endorsing about that essay? What is the essay actually saying in your opinion?

[Wonderbanana]

...it was late at night...

System11 suggests to play however you enjoy, be it score, survival, or mindless blast. 3 independent methods...

I suggest a forth way: playing high-score and 1CC runs (at the same time). All I meant to imply was the value of playing for both simultaneously, I didn't phrase it very well.

s'ok I still love ya

I don't post much I know but I think it's the whole 'worthless' aspect that bothers me reading this thread.

As a whole, as a community, as lovers of shmups or whatever - we are already a niche unfashionable group and yet at times we seem to do our best to marginalise groups within the group.

I don't care how people play or why, only that they do and help keep this scene alive. However you play, it's not worthless.

[Squire Grooktook]

lmao @ people being unable to see the thick sarcasm in Drake's posts. C'mon, besides Gus and... Icycalm (?) who seriously thinks like that.

That's why I said "not sure if serious".

Internet sarcasm hard to tell etc. etc.

[trap15]

Depends on the game. Here's a breakdown:

1) I get the 1cc. Great! Awesome! A real accomplishment.

2) I can't get a 1cc, but I've figured out how to score decently. Great! Awesome! A real accomplishment.

3) Someone else gets a 1cc. Stupid n00b, l2score or go back to Halololololz!

4) Someone else gets a high score. No 1cc? You fail it! Why don't you try hard?

5) Somone else gets a 1cc while scoring well. OMG HAX! BAN PLZ!

Pretty much this. Shmupsforum, ladies and gentlemen!

[BIL]

5) Somone else gets a 1cc while scoring well. OMG FALSIFICARE! BAN PLZ!

^_~

[O. Van Bruce]

3x DESTROYED AT A TIME!
took one post to impulsively bring out the weeaboo card 2x COMBO IT'S A NEW WESTERN RECORD

Can I be your fangirl now?

--------------------

And Seppo... sadface.jpg. I really wonder where do you want to invest all that skill you are earning. If you are autistic, ok, you might be doing something that you need, but normal people want to invest their time and passion in something more worthwhile.

in the meantime, We'll take shmups as an entertainment and, at least in my case, I'll invest most of my time looking for a job and trying to create my own life in this 3D world. You can stay in the 2D world... hope it isn't hard when you return to the 3D.

[Aleksei]

You got it backwards. Score is worthless if you don't 1CC.

+1

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Been playing progear recently and due to the bullet-canceling mechanic I get the same hollow feeling by just surviving...

Good survival play is actually more crucial to scoring than gem collection is in Progear. Specifically, you need to build your counter and minimum gem rank by repeatedly grabbing those amazingly lucrative max bomb bonuses which will drastically boost your +points per hit and end of stage bonus. Good gem collection accounts for about half of your overall counter potential if you manage to NMNB the first loop. It's more important to learn to take advantage of bullet cancelling to help your survival for the sake of both survival and scoring.

over reading someone else's retardation, which he took the time to write a shitty excuse for a 'book' to explain.

Genital mutilation really is preferable to purposefully making yourself dumber by reading something like that.

also wtf's up with the allcaps spam, it's just scoring

Internet sarcasm hard to tell etc. etc.

The tipoff was when he mentioned the DDP 2-All which only a handful of people have managed, let alone with a focus on scoring.

[Aguraki]

what means going for score?
there is the world record then everything else under it is at discretion of the player for judging it acceptable or not.

set your own goals and don´t let someone with a better score bringing you down.
with that mentality I don´t see how you can enjoy sports or games.


what is an acceptable score????

you can have top 11 on battle bakraid scoreboard just with level 1.

[KitesAreFun]

what means going for score?
there is the world record then everything else under it is at discretion of the player for judging it acceptable or not.

set your own goals and don´t let someone with a better score bringing you down.
with that mentality I don´t see how you can enjoy sports or games.


what is an acceptable score????

you can have top 11 on battle bakraid scoreboard just with level 1.

In my opinion David Sirlin had very good advice. He had suggested (if memory serves) in his free book online "Playing to Win" that a player focus on improvement, not results.

He was more or less talking about playing human players in 2D fighting games but I think something similar (but not the same) can be applied to a 1cc and the like if the player has that as a goal.

Admittedly the two words "improvement" and "results" can be one in the same and are apt to require further explanation but I'm at work, and it'll have to do for now.

[Skykid]

3x DESTROYED AT A TIME!
took one post to impulsively bring out the weeaboo card

Two posts actually. That's the best card too, all retaliation nullified.

Gus's essay is entirely valid and worth a read.

The essay is incoherent; and thus valid only in theory; and thus difficult to ascertain validity. What exactly are you endorsing about that essay? What is the essay actually saying in your opinion?

Terrible fucking essay. Considering the achievement of his scoring, it's clear that two years in a dungeon has left him unable to comprehend that not everyone needs to have the same aspirations to enjoy themselves. He does himself a disservice by offering up opinions about how to play/live/exist, he should just let the scores do the talking. Guy needs to all clear his stupid perceptions and counterstop his tongue.

[Thorham]

I find it quite ridiculous that some people care about how other people play their single player games. Arguing about the best way to play The best way to play is to play in a way that YOU enjoy, but apparently, some people don't understand this

[trap15]

Welcome to Shmupsforum, Thorham

[KitesAreFun]

I find it quite ridiculous that some people care about how other people play their single player games. Arguing about the best way to play The best way to play is to play in a way that YOU enjoy, but apparently, some people don't understand this

And you are doing what the OP is doing: engaging in conversation. Is this not a forum? But it only took you three sentences to make naked a small error. If people shouldn't care about what other people think why did you offer your opinion about how people should play their games?

Getting back to enjoyment... the developer of Braid, Jonathan Blow, doesn't think "enjoyment" or "fun" ought be the goal when playing a game, not necessarily. My opinion on this matter is that people should play a game the way they want to. If they don't know how they want to then naturally they may read a forum, or maybe even start an OP.

[CloudyMusic]

Guy needs to all clear his stupid perceptions and counterstop his tongue.

Hahahaha

Agreed, though. Playing video games to the detriment of your personal life is not something that should be idolized or endorsed.

[Squire Grooktook]

And you are doing what the OP is doing: engaging in conversation. Is this not a forum? But it only took you three sentences to make naked a small error. If people shouldn't care about what other people think why did you offer your opinion about how people should play their games?

Oh, that's just silly.

Getting back to enjoyment... the developer of Braid, Jonathan Blow, doesn't think "enjoyment" or "fun" ought be the goal when playing a game, not necessarily.

Extra Creditz elaboration on this was pretty decent.

[KitesAreFun]

Oh, that's just silly.

Is it also silly that I now consider myself - thanks to this thread - more educated on 1cc vs Score to to help me make up my own mind about how I want to play?

I wasn't sure myself. I think I'm pretty sure now.

[Squire Grooktook]

Nah that's fine lol.

Personally, I don't like to over think these things. Though it helps every now and then for someone to open your mind to things you might not have considered (For example: someone telling you that a scoring system is more deep then you might have initially thought, etc.)

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Play however you want, as long as you're not passing off credit feeding or tool assistance as a sort of display of skill.

[Stevas]

So... what if you just play games to stop the voices?

[Skykid]

Guy needs to all clear his stupid perceptions and counterstop his tongue.

Hahahaha

Agreed, though. Playing video games to the detriment of your personal life is not something that should be idolized or endorsed.

You know what the real dumbassery of it is: he's completely wrong. He went to all that trouble: 8 hours a day for 2 years, loss of social life, withering of libido, skewed perceptions about realistic goals and people's individuality, and came out with a counterstop and no clue about how real life works.

The proof?

I go to busy arcades every day, usually for an hour or so. Visitors are there to have a good time, and that's predominantly for the social kick-back and relaxation of playing videogames with friends. About 15% of gamers are dedicated to something: the SFIV crowd have competitions monthly, serious Initial D guys once every three months, and the King of Fighters guys just can't get enough of competitive play. The skill level is across a very broad spectrum too, not everyone wants to have ultimate mastery.

Of course there are guys who have become excellent at specific games: DJ Max and all the rhythm games have guys and girls who have learned the hell out of the songs, and the skilled guys who joined me on Dariusburst and battled through in a co-op 1cc - but these are people who do it for fun, and not as Gus's "essay" points out, continuing after the fun has gone until only misery remains because they want to be a fucking Olympic champion. For the average gamer here, playing arcade games goes hand in hand with drinking, partying, watching movies, earning a living and studying.

The vast majority are not willing to drive their lives into the ground in pursuit of getting a high score: they're in the arcade to relax, not for punishment. They play on everything, from Percussion Master to lightgun shooters to After Burner Climax to DDR to fighting games. Girls on fighting games usually just waggle the hell out of the sticks and buttons (destroying them in process) but they're having a good time - and then there are those other girls who really dig Tekken (for some reason) and are actually fairly proficient at beating the crap out of people.

The point is, his 'guide to gaming life' is moot because he's been in a dark room for over seven-hundred days playing Mushi Futari, so therefore his perceptions of how other people should behave in relation to his experience is complete balls.

I expect if he ever gets to Asia and visits an arcade, he might throw up at seeing all those wasted credits.

You want to 1cc a game, go 1cc it and enjoy yourself. Want to shoot for a score, go ahead, have a great time, and move onto something else when you've had enough.

Fuck all those assheads who tell you how you should be gaming, just have fun.

[hail good sir]

the

[xris]

All of my 1CC would fall into the 'easy' catagory, with mediocre score at best. And, in most cases I felt like I took the time to earn them, and found plenty of satisfaction in doing so. Even the odd one, when I got a 1CC in Trouble Witches Neo on the first try. That was a ton of fun, with a very memorable final boss fight for me. And, I never played it again, I was very content with my worthless dumb luck run. It was fun! That's the point right? Sure, we are playing competitively some times, and find ways to challenge ours selves. But, there's no prize at the end, no glory, just a sense of personal accomplishment. And, there's a ton of other things that I want to accomplish besides being awesome in a genre that people ignore. It becomes really difficult to justify the time spent vs fun had at that point. Sure I've played a couple different types of games to the point that it became unpleasant work, but it was for personal reward, and of course I may want to brag about it afterwards. Some people have that attitude of trying to push themselves to do better in a game, that's fun for them, and it's cool to see what they can accomplish. It's just not for me. I'll admit that challenge keeps me coming back anyways, I just don't enjoy the serious business attitude for playing. ALL of my clears happened when I was just having fun. My only no miss clear came accidentally when I was just humming along with the game and enjoying the rhythm. Different strokes for different folks.
I'm not even sure any of this is really relevant to the discussion anyway. It's just frustrating when somebody tells you that you are having the wrong type of fun, and should always treat it like a life and death duel with unseen enemy super players. What the fuck is it going to be like for your kid when they join little league?
It's hard to take a diatribe seriously when it attacks 'casual hipsters' when the game used as an example is the one that brought a shit ton of new players on board. And, it kind of sounds like Coolio's Emmy acceptance speech.

[TLB]

FYI Gus has been to Asian arcades and bought a prostitute.

Question: What would you say to Nikola Tesla about all this? He practically invented the modern world and his philosophy was quite similar. If more people ignored the retarded, superficial bullshit modern society pushes on everyone we might live in a better, more advanced world.

Btw Tesla would play Yagawa games.

[hail good sir]

for

[Skykid]

Well there you go he's doing just fine then.

I kind of agree with the Tesla thing, but what is retarded superficial bullshit to one person is just socializing to another, so it just goes back to don't tell me how to live. Is the world a better place through technology or through interpersonal relationships?

Boy, is that a serious question?

Try cutting out the latter and see how you fare.

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

I'm not completely sure what Mr. Angry (Skykid) is on about talking about people telling people how to play. The way I (and I assume others) are answering is about the way we value our own runs. I don't care how anyone else plays. I find scores where you don't get at least a 1-ALL to be practice so, not really worthless but I wouldn't want to make some sort of public record out of failing. The OP asked for opinions and got them, not sure why Mr. Angry is so angry. He wants to get Gus in a headlock from the sound of things. I haven't read the essay but it can't be that infuriating. Try not to get in a street brawl with our superplayers thanks peace.