Why are people reluctant to import a Jap 360

[Giest118]

Every other worthwhile shmup seems to have been released in the US or is region free. They're aiming for multiple regions with SDOJ, so it doesn't seem like that's a reason either.

We still don't exactly have confirmation on this. It's gotten irritating. At least if Cave just came out and said "Sorry, we can't West this game," then, you know, at least we would have confirmation one way or the other.

[Squire Grooktook]

Parents said no.

[Jeneki]

Outside of Mushi 1, is there even a worthwhile game for Japanese 360s?

Daioujou Black Label. I definitely prefer it over my old PS2 white label version, and the extra mode is better as well.

[DMC]

My perspective as a PAL 360 owner.

I think many people here started to realize that the 360 was going to be a good platform for STGs around the relases of Mushi Futari and ESPgaluda 2. Before that there were too few, and not exclusive enough, STG releases to convince us to buy the console instead of PCB originals/other ports. This was also a time when the early generation 360s were said to be extremely unstable, and managing japanese accounts seemed a bit of a hustle. On top of that Futari became region-free, and right at the moment when many of us searched the internet for cheap J-360s it was announced that Galuda 2 would be region-free as well.

So we had games like R-type Dimensions, Ikaruga, Radiant Silvergun, Strania, & Strike Witches, and Eschatos turned region-free and even 5Pbs Bullet Soul did (which was promising as they cooperated with Cave and seemed to be intending to release more shooters).

So what were the tempting j-exclusives? Ketsui (which became well-emulated at the time), DDP DOJ (which many of us already had on PS2 and also became emulated). Raiden IV? Not enough hype for purchasing a second exemplar of a console you already own, and having to switch between two consoles all the time is meh.

Then we got Rising Star Games who published Cave STG after Cave STG, which lead us to hope that even Ketsui or SDOJ will be released in PAL.

And if you are on a tight budget and you have the ability to wait a year for domestic release, it's not a big deal.

...RFA-PAL was a joke though.

[HydrogLox]

Or save a lot of money, go the RGH-route and a winner is you.

So you finally got your hands on that legit copy of Dodonpachi DAI-OU-JOU Black Label EXTRA and then you remember that you desperately need to download CAVE's patch first. You only have your RGH-unit. You can't connect to your XBL account after booting with the glitch Flash/NAND (to launch DOJ) because that will get your unit banned - so downloading the patch legitimately is out of the question. OK, so you have the added overhead of having to manage your off-region Xbox 360 content manually - a pain but so it goes. So where do you get the patch:

• Your buddy's NTSC-J 360 that downloaded the patch already.
• That same shady place where you could have downloaded DOJ wholesale.

Don't get me wrong - there will be a time where Microsoft abandons XBL support for all Xbox 360s worldwide - at which point of time those Xbox 360 owners who still want access to their legitimate content will have to jump through hoops to use their patches/DLC and even more so to use it on that next used replacement console they just acquired.

But in the current context most RGH-units are still primarily pirating gateways ... it doesn't matter where you stand on region locking.

[DrTrouserPlank]

There's no reason.

I imported a slim around the time that slims were new. I paid the obscene tax and took delivery of my console. It cost me "a bit" more than an Xbox "ought" to cost me...... but I don't regret it... even with the prevalence of multi-region releases.

Having a J-360 is still worth it for ease of access.. Even if you are supposedly a fan of the genre... it's not too late to invest in a JP-console.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I imagine the perceived reliability (or complete lack of..) for this generation of consoles is a factor too.

Past generations you could buy a system and know it would last, know that you could still play your discs years after you bought them and that your content wasn't depending on any external services or locked to a machine / account in the unlikely event that it should fail.

This generation is nowhere near as reliable, not even now with the more modern revisions of the hardware, plus you end up with content tied to accounts and the systems which (IMHO) massively devalues both the games, and system as a whole. That makes it far less worth it because it's less of an investment.

Given the extra hassle and cost of importing something, the increased chances of it failing, the lower 'worth' of your actual product, and the near impossibility of getting anything serviced you can see why people might be put off.

I would say that is a factor too, It's the reason I didn't buy a 360 until the slim came out and why I haven't bought a 2nd hand J360 and problem is all the revisions in each model of console which will probably make sourcing replacement parts a chore. IIRC doesn't either the early 360 or PS3 slim model have dodgy disk drives which was changed to a better one from a different manufacturer?

Outside of Mushi 1, is there even a worthwhile game for Japanese 360s?

Every other worthwhile shmup seems to have been released in the US or is region free. They're aiming for multiple regions with SDOJ, so it doesn't seem like that's a reason either.

Mushi HD and SOJ are the only two must play STGs I can't play on my PAL 360, others like Ketsui, RFA and R4 I can play on my PC or like DS 2X and Caldarius won't lose any sleep over.

The lack of Mushihimisama HD on PAL is an annoying one as after the flops of DKF and AKS, I would have thought a Mushi 1 and 2 double pack with both the DLC (inc Mushi HD 1.5 with the different soundtrack and the freezing problems with Futari + DLC) to be regarded as a sure hit. Mushi 1 is there for all of us guys to buy and enjoy while Futari is there for the "hardcore" challenge gamers who want to play the game with the Hardest Boss Ever. Pepare to Die marketing slogan certainly worked for Dark Souls so it should work atleast in some limited way for Futari, especially when it includes novice modes and Original.

There's also the fact that Mushi point, shoot and bomb mechanics are simpler to understand than both DFK and AKS were, I feel those two games were too complex for most westerners, just look at the amount of gamers who said the game was the hardest danmaku they've ever played, and that's because they didn't play the game correctly, that includes that lame IGN reviewer who said that he had no idea how the game worked but recommend ppl buy Sine Mora and Ikaruga instead. There's the loli factor of Reco too and that Mushi HD LTD cover would get ppl to atleast pick it up off the store shelf.

Anyway I'm getting off topic but excuse me I'm just voicing my frustration of such a seemingly sure hit been ignored by RSG.

[Drake]

are there really any reasons besides "too fucking expensive"

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Also, owning an Xbox already kind of makes it off-putting, I bought mine before I got into shmups this seriously, so the additional investment would be annoying.

[Ganelon]

I own a JP 360 but here are a combination of reasons (in no particular order) why I think others are reluctant to import 360s (including stuff folks have brought up in the past and what they aren't saying):

1. Cost - Not everyone has the discretion to spend $300 for a new console and $70 a game. Some folks probably pirate most of their shooters. If the system were $2 and its games $1, then more folks would have JP 360s.

2. Indifference - Folks who don't like Cave shooters and bullet hells in general have little to play on a 360. Arcade heads may already own most of the games on PCB and aren't inclined to pay for a console port. If the 360 had a lot more variety in its shooter library and fans didn't own them in any form, then more folks would have JP 360s.

3. Fear - Getting into importing is a plunge in many ways. Not everyone is ready for that step. If JP consoles and games were sold at your local Best Buy, then more folks would have JP 360s.

4. Ignorance - Older 360 versions were infamous for their reliability issues. While those issues were eliminated years ago, some folks still think current 360s have high failure rates. If "red ring of death" never happened, then more folks would have JP 360s.

5. Emotions - Some folks already own US 360s or also want to own most US games. They don't want to support Microsoft by purchasing another version of the console just because of a region lock. If the JP 360 were instead known as the Shmupstation 3000—a console specially focused on JP shooters—then more folks would have JP 360s.

[BrianC]

Personally, I think there's a good enough amount of region free releases for me to be fine with just the US Xbox. A good chunk of the games I'm interested in importing are region free or have a version playable on US systems. Pink Sweets/Muchi Muchi Pork just got a re-release too.

[HydrogLox]

Also, owning an Xbox already kind of makes it off-putting, I bought mine before I got into shmups this seriously, so the additional investment would be annoying.

I think we can all agree on is that is off-putting and annoying when

1. A gaming platform manufacturer and distributor (e.g. Microsoft) implements a region-locking mechanism.
2. The game platform developers (e.g. Cave, G.rev, Milestone, Triangle Service, etc.) can't be bothered to pursue an all-region release for their products.

... but there we have it.

But in general (i.e. not at all specifically to the above quoted post):

Lots of people seem to have no problem buying a PS3 (i.e. another console) to gain access to the platform's exclusives even if they already own an Xbox 360.
Buying another region's console is no different. You are purchasing a console that can play the games that none of the ones you currently own can play. The fact that it is only available on another part of the planet makes it naturally more expensive due to shipping, customs, and currency exchange - again that's life. But it basically comes down to one simple decision:

Is the added expense of gaining access to this otherwise inaccessible gaming library worth it to you personally?

• If not - that makes sense. It is expensive and there may be more important or better things to spend money on.
• If yes - well then "you" are going to have to pay up for the privilege.

The general moaning that regional publishers don't pick up these games and expend the effort to localize and publish these games in "your native region" is pointless - these businesses have decided that they cannot make enough money that way - and unfortunately they are probably right.

As a result being a fan of Japanese STGs is an expensive hobby ...

[Bananamatic]

I like playing piggu releases and it's collecting dust now even with DFK, why buy a second one

[Skykid]

I find the debate a bit odd, but then I've always imported and all my older consoles are Japanese anyway, so it was only a matter of time for a J360. Soon as it was identified as this gens shmup console was a good enough reason to buy.

[hvx]

i had a (US) 360 & ps3 a few years ago, sold them because i found i didn't play the games. i didn't play stgs until this past winter when i found bug princess on the phone. imported a j360 & ketsui and have been playing it nonstop. can't wait for this cave collection to get here... right place/right time to be a shmupper i guess.

[Stevas]

For me, it's more down to lack of room/motivation. I barely have the energy to get up and change discs, let alone mess around with setting up another console when I want to play it (and my TV is already maxed out on HDMIs... and I can't be arsed to go looking for a new one just yet).

tl;dr = I is a lazy fuck.

Also, I'm not really sure of the best way to get hold of one (UK based). Hook a brother up?

Play Asia for me 240quid imported with no import fees, only took 4 days to get here

Okay, can anyone hook a cheap brother up cheaper?

[Last_Dancer]

Another point for Europeans like me:

Japanese Xbox360 comes with 110V Power Supply, unlike 110-220V Powersupply used in every PS3, so you have to buy a Stepdown Converter too, and because the 360 drains so much power, the good old 50W Stepdown Converter used for Dreamcast, PS1, PS2 etc is too weak, adding additional costs for a 300W Converter.

The RGB-cable is also an issue, PS3 uses the same old cable from PS1-days, the 360 needs a new one.

PS3 was supposed to be Importers Choice, but something really went wrong.

[Skykid]

Okay, can anyone hook a cheap brother up cheaper?

Scout forums. I got mine on Arcade Otaku 3 years ago, located in the UK, for about £120. Never had a hitch with it.

(And I got it signed by Daigo Umehara, so it's a keeper, dead or alive.)

[Ghegs]

Another point for Europeans like me:

Japanese Xbox360 comes with 110V Power Supply, unlike 110-220V Powersupply used in every PS3, so you have to buy a Stepdown Converter too, and because the 360 drains so much power, the good old 50W Stepdown Converter used for Dreamcast, PS1, PS2 etc is too weak, adding additional costs for a 300W Converter.

You can just use the PSU from a local 360. I got my JP 360 running with a power source I bought from Germany. You might find them from some local gaming store, they could have spares they're willing to sell.

[DrTrouserPlank]

If you buy an asian region 360 (which I think is predominantly Chinese) as opposed to a specifically Japanese one, the PSU is 220 odd volts and completely compatible with the UK supply.

[Mero]

If I didn't have a J360 for shooters then I almost certainly wouldn't own a current gen console at all, very little reason for me to buy a domestic machine. I'm not interested in 'Triple A' titles at all but I suspect I'm in a minority on this.

And yeah my Japanese unit is running off a UK PSU

[Friendly]

Or save a lot of money, go the RGH-route and a winner is you.

So where do you get the patch

You google for "title updates" and are surprised to discover that there is a neat place offering a mirror of every single 360 game patch ever released.

The more you know.

-

Let's be realistic here for a moment. If you import a secondary 360 from Japan, you basically reward Microsoft for their region-locking.
Buying a cheap, used 360 and using RGH seems much more sensible. 5 years ago this alternative didn't exist, now you have a choice.

[TransatlanticFoe]

360 is towards the end of its lifecycle, so I figure I can wait until its successor turns up and get it cheaper. I have enough consoles to buy games for already and, assuming it still works, am getting given a PSX in the next couple of weeks. No doubt that'll be much cheaper to buy for than Japanese 360 shmup releases.

[hail good sir]

weed

[Friendly]

Who is talking about "free shit"? I expect the members of this forum to PAY for the games they play in order to keep the genre alive. I have personally imported every single 360 shmup.
A 360 with RGH is not a license to pirate. It's a good alternative buying an import 360.

[hail good sir]

and

[Friendly]

You want a JP region 360.

No, I don't. I want a region-free 360, to play games from all regions of the globalized world we live in.

e: YOU might be the wrong term, I don't know if you specifically want one, but it's the stance you're taking about it that bugs me.

And what stance is that? The stance to not put up with corporate anti-consumer bullshit or the stance that I own the things I purchase and am free to do with them as I please in my own four walls?

"Not for sale and use outside of Japan"
I hope for the sake of your troubled conscience that you are abiding by this.

[hail good sir]

cracks

[Skykid]

Jesus, talk about flogging a dead horse. Pretty sure the PS2 was more region locked than the 360. Bunch of fucking Sony corporate bastards telling us what we can and can't play.

[Friendly]

And what stance is that? The stance to not put up with corporate anti-consumer bullshit or the stance that I own the things I purchase and am free to do with them as I please in my own four walls?

Yes, this is exactly the point of my original post. Probably not the best place to white knight the evil corporations so I'll shut up.

The point is that if the will of the corporation is sacrosanct to you, then you shouldn't import an Xbox 360 either. You should instead refrain altogether from buying games not released in your region, because that's the whole point of region-locking.