Is a 1CC worthless if you're not going for score?

[MrOldSchoolCool]

I know that by default you end up with a pretty good score if you're able to 1CC, but in most shmups you have the option of "playing for score" as a style of play.

I often find myself conflicted as I'm not close to 1CCing most of my shmups (I only got into them a few months ago) but I still feel compelled to play for score even though that usually kills me faster.

I really like how Battle Garegga is setup so that scoring high helps you get through the game (earning extends and suiciding to bring rank down).

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

You got it backwards. Score is worthless if you don't 1CC.

[Squire Grooktook]

In response to the topic title: Absolutely fucking not.

There's no such thing as worthless. Do whatever is fun. People play for score because it's fun. People 1cc because it's fun. Don't let people rain on your parade and tell you it's "wrong" to play certain ways because it doesn't conform with their orthodox view of how these games should be played.

I know some people will say "BUT DOESN'T THAT MEAN IT'S OKAY TO CREDIT FEED AS WELL?" to which I'd say it depends on the game, but most of the time credit feeding is not conductive to fun because you're essentially not interacting with the game, it'll be cleared even if you don't do anything. Both scoring and 1cc'ing on the other hand require actual effort and immersion. They are both valid and entertaining ways to play, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[KitesAreFun]

I know that by default you end up with a pretty good score if you're able to 1CC, but in most shmups you have the option of "playing for score" as a style of play.

I often find myself conflicted as I'm not close to 1CCing most of my shmups (I only got into them a few months ago) but I still feel compelled to play for score even though that usually kills me faster.

I really like how Battle Garegga is setup so that scoring high helps you get through the game (earning extends and suiciding to bring rank down).

I think you're trying to get a general feel for a consensus from shmup players. Right? I've wondered the same thing.

I've pondered shmup design endlessly. I personally have a distaste for contrived and needlessly complex scoring mechanisms because mimicry bores me. Others just dissect these games like a surgeon. I wish I had that kind of discipline. I believe Xona Games' shmup philosophy aligns with my taste the most: blow everything to hell as fast as possible, and in so doing you will be playing for score. Of course this is merely my taste, and I am very far indeed from the ability of some if not most shmup players which might explain why I like to keep things simple.

Do you have an Xbox 360?

[Skykid]

A 1cc is worth a 1cc, totally respectable in its own right, and even more so if the game isn't super easy.

[hail good sir]

to

[MauJustice]

I would at least recommend that you learn the scoring well enough to get the extends. From there, it's really up to you. There are games I enjoyed getting a clear on...but I didn't like the scoring system enough to keep going.

If you really enjoy all the mechanics of a game then yes, definitely play for score.

[system11]

Don't pander to the elitism - enjoy games playing them them way you enjoy them be it score, survival, or just a mindless blast. Games are entertainment.

[chempop]

Don't pander to the elitism - enjoy games playing them them way you enjoy them be it score, survival, or just a mindless blast. Games are entertainment.

That might work for you, but many here enjoy this form of entertainment even more once their skills increase to high-score and 1CC runs.

[Squire Grooktook]

Don't pander to the elitism - enjoy games playing them them way you enjoy them be it score, survival, or just a mindless blast. Games are entertainment.

That might work for you, but many here enjoy this form of entertainment even more once their skills increase to high-score and 1CC runs.

He never said don't play for score, he just said play however you enjoy if you enjoy it, don't let others change your opinion for you.

1cc'ing and scoring are both very conductive to a fun and immersive experience. How much depends from game to game, but if you find a 1cc fun and scoring not fun, then that's a personal thing and you shouldn't let others convince you otherwise. If you find the games scoring compelling enough to play for, then that's cool too.

"Whatever floats your boat."

Remember, we're not discussing whether scoring makes games more fun. The topic title is "Is a 1cc worthless if you're not going for score?"

[Drake]

Completely worthless. What good is a Dodonpachi 2-ALL if you can't get that 2-3 full chain? No good at all. Nobody cares about your accomplishment, and you shouldn't care about your accomplishment even if you've put a lot of time and effort into it and have finally reached your self-imposed goal. You can't be proud of something if you haven't taken total advantage of everything the game has to offer in order to make numbers go up. It's that simple.

[Squire Grooktook]

Completely worthless. What good is a Dodonpachi 2-ALL if you can't get that 2-3 full chain? No good at all. Nobody cares about your accomplishment, and you shouldn't care about your accomplishment even if you've put a lot of time and effort into it and have finally reached your self-imposed goal. You can't be proud of something if you haven't taken total advantage of everything the game has to offer in order to make numbers go up. It's that simple.

Not sure if serious.

It's not always about the accomplishment. Sometimes it's just about the excitement of playing and winning in an extremely tense and clutch situation. In fact, honestly the idea that all hard games are purely about the accomplishment is a myth and one that needs to die. People play hard games for a variety of reasons, accomplishment is just one of them and it's subjective like all the rest. I personally don't care too much about accomplishment.

Who cares about being proud? Some of my favorite moments in games in general had nothing to do with scoring, some of my favorite moments in games I didn't even win at all. But did they make me feel? Hell yeah. They brought emotion. So it's not worthless, at least not to me. I wouldn't trade those experiences for all the high scores in the world.

There is no objective worth here. If something is worth it to you, then go for it. If it isn't worth it to you, then don't do it. Simple as that. FOLLOW YOUR OWN PATH.



*edit*

Also, even though it shouldn't matter anyway, that nobody cares is also wrong. Plenty of people, myself included, find survival runs impressive on harder games. If my friend came to me and said "I just 2-all'd Dodonpachi" I would be blown away, I probably wouldn't even think to ask how well he scored.

[EmperorIng]

Don't pander to the elitism - enjoy games playing them them way you enjoy them be it score, survival, or just a mindless blast. Games are entertainment.

That might work for you, but many here enjoy this form of entertainment even more once their skills increase to high-score and 1CC runs.

But he wasn't saying score is less enjoyable than survival, or vice versa. Though I often think that survival is by default more fun than scoring, unless it's a Takumi game where scoring is fun [tm].

There's only a few games I play patently for score - Soukyogurentai, GigaWing 2, and ESPGaluda come to mind. Everything else is going for that 1CC - I've only done it once before, though!

Completely worthless. What good is a Dodonpachi 2-ALL if you can't get that 2-3 full chain? No good at all. Nobody cares about your accomplishment, and you shouldn't care about your accomplishment even if you've put a lot of time and effort into it and have finally reached your self-imposed goal. You can't be proud of something if you haven't taken total advantage of everything the game has to offer in order to make numbers go up. It's that simple.

I won't even talk to scrubs who can't even keep a max chain going in stage 2 of Ikaruga. Why waste my time dealing with slobbering morons?

[Drake]

Not sure if serious

Entirely serious. You 1cc Mushi Futari, but you couldn't even get all 30 lanterns? Why even bother telling anyone about it? You might as well not even call that a clear. Screw whatever you might have thought was overcoming a personal hurdle, that's just sad.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

To the person who asked if I have Xbox 360, the answer is yes.

I just find this question interesting because a 1CC is far from being assumed of a player to be capable of, and so throwing the requirement for score on top of that stacks up to be QUITE the challenge. I mean, gamers who don't play shmups are impressed when they see you make it through half a stage without dying.

I think it's a little more compelling to go for score where the scoring system was a lot more thought out. Such as the Treasure games.

I like the idea that playing for score will help you in some way other than just allowing you to say "look at my score". Who cares? I look at score merely as a way to make the game more fun.

I'm glad whoever mentioned extends did so. I forgot about that and that is a really compelling reason to play for score.


BTW, after three months of getting into shmups these are the games I have:

Layer Section
Dodonpachi
Battle Garegga
MUSHA
Thunder Force IV
Lords of Thunder
Soldier Blade
Gate of Thunder (on Virtual Console along with LoT and SB but hey they're still awesome to play!)
R-Types
Dodonpachi Daioujou
Gradius V
Mushihimesama Futari
Akai Katana
Deathsmiles
Muchi Pork / Pink Sweets
Raiden Fighters Aces

The only game left I want to get is Radiant Silvergun and maybe Saidaioujou if it does indeed end up coming out in NA or the Jap version doesn't cost a wanker's fortune.

I had Mushimesama (PS2), Raiden Project, and Batsugun but sold them. I'm probably going to sell Gradius V as well. I know I know. They're awesome games but I constantly consolidate my gaming library to just include my absolute favorites as I barely have enough time to play those as it is.

[MrOldSchoolCool]

Not sure if serious

Entirely serious. You 1cc Mushi Futari, but you couldn't even get all 30 lanterns? Why even bother telling anyone about it? You might as well not even call that a clear. Screw whatever you might have thought was overcoming a personal hurdle, that's just sad.

Telling people what you did in a game is critical to your ability to enjoy the game?

[Nasirosuchus]

I only play for score to get the extends. After that, I don't worry about it anymore and I play only for the 1CC.

[Skykid]

Not sure if serious

Entirely serious. You 1cc Mushi Futari, but you couldn't even get all 30 lanterns? Why even bother telling anyone about it? You might as well not even call that a clear. Screw whatever you might have thought was overcoming a personal hurdle, that's just sad.

Are all weeaboos such dicks, or is it just you?

[Wonderbanana]

Don't pander to the elitism - enjoy games playing them them way you enjoy them be it score, survival, or just a mindless blast. Games are entertainment.

I was just getting ready to post more or less this until I read it. Absolutely spot on.

[Wonderbanana]

Don't pander to the elitism - enjoy games playing them them way you enjoy them be it score, survival, or just a mindless blast. Games are entertainment.

That might work for you, but many here enjoy this form of entertainment even more once their skills increase to high-score and 1CC runs.

I suggest you re-read what he posted.

[Squire Grooktook]

Why even bother telling anyone about it?

To quote from Catch-22

"Why not?"

You might as well not even call that a clear.

If the game calls it a clear, I call it a clear.

[hail good sir]

flow

[Kaiser]

Completely worthless. What good is a Dodonpachi 2-ALL if you can't get that 2-3 full chain? No good at all. Nobody cares about your accomplishment, and you shouldn't care about your accomplishment even if you've put a lot of time and effort into it and have finally reached your self-imposed goal. You can't be proud of something if you haven't taken total advantage of everything the game has to offer in order to make numbers go up. It's that simple.

Way to go to be an elitist asshole weeaboo in one/two posts instantly. As for the thread, i'm with system11 on this one, ignore the elitism, play the shmups the way you enjoy them most, even if it's mindless creditfeed blasting.

[Cagar]

Games are entertainment.

And hobby.
And sport.

[Squire Grooktook]

Hobby's and sport are both for the purpose of entertainment.

[Seppo Hovi]

I think people who have never attempted basic 1CC's tend to trivialize goes into them. They might think that they are paying the greatest among us, the Shmups Chat, their due by placing them atop this pedestal built off that vague concept known as "shitposting," when in fact to do such a thing is an insult. To watch people chalk those many long hours of anguish, frustration, and uncertainty up to the players simply being predisposed to perform well in these games is utterly disgusting to me, but unfortunately something far too common on here, even amongst those who seemingly should know better.

By the looks of things, this misunderstanding can mainly be blamed on that most people on here fall into 3 groups indicating various degrees of ignorance towards the higher level of play. First, there are the scorerunners, the personfications of the phrase "You can't suck with a WR." Then there's the fangirls, those only here "to follow those with fame," only posting on here to show how much more "nicer persons" they are than the STG playing masses. If they want to be extra hardcore they might even have a meaningless idol list of superplayers to gloat about. However, their ignorance and failure to achieve worthwhile 1CC's exposes them as just another part of the casual hivemind. Last and most harmful are the "superplayers", or, to be more specific, the members of the STGT crew and their associated acts. These players, crowned by the former 2 groups as the best (shitposters) on the board have a foolish approach towards this forum, refusing to write a post longer than 2 pharagraphs at a time and treating scoring, an utter bastardization of how shmups are designed to be played as a worthwhile venture.

Of course, I'm sure there's a few who don't neatly fit into these groups as I have described but the point I am trying to make is that the elitism which constantly pollutes every aspect of this board can be tied directly into the vast majority simply not understanding how to approach these games. This is to say members of these groups are inherently bad and hopeless people, just beyond salvation.

I began as a fangirl, was led to shmups for the fact that I suck at FPS's, and I, too, eventually came to idolize the superplayers. Where I differed from the general fangirls was in my genuine desire to become knowledgable and skillful at the games, which allowed me to rise above them and, even if only for a short time, led me to view the forum in similar ways to the STGT crew. But as my passion for clearing DAIOH SUPER MEGA BAD LABEL's first fifteen loops without falling asleep continued to burn I came to disagree with the general scorerunners' opinions and so, they laughed at me. It was then, finally facing the comfort of isolation that I became certain of what I had begun to suspect. In order to continue my evolution, I needed to strike out my own path and reject many of the things that those groups had held to be absolute truths (and vodka). These are games designed for women who got bullied at high school, thus, in this community built on shitposting and idolizing high scoring, the only way to truly understand the genre is to play for survival.

In order to proceed further, it is crucial to shed the notion that shmups are only scoring and nothing more. Scoring can merely be a hobby, but to excel in it one must view at as a way of life. When a great scorerunner begins to take scoring less seriously and treat it like cheap whiskey, their world will being to falter. Such is true with survival as well. Where survival differ with esports such as GTA V-Five (funnily enough, this game actually exists), is in that shmups represent an entirely different world. The simple act of playing a video game is a rejection of reality, even if only a temporary one. Thus, in order to invest the countless necessary hours to build skill in shmups one must foster a contempt for reality and other virtual worlds.

To a shmupper the need to exist in the 3D realm is a mere inconvenience. He is a mortal man, however, and he must exist in the 3D world until that day when he hits thirty years of age and becomes either a magical girl, or a wizard. Until that day the shmupper strikes a compromise: while reluctantly living in the 3D world he carefully calculates every action to help his success in the shmup world. In short, the shmupper is a man who goes full shmup.

With this out of the way let's next turn our attention to how the shmupper views that world. I think it is pretty generally agreed that at their core shmups are a challenge to the shmupper. What some don't realize is that the challenge is not to get a WR in the game or to get a good fame. No, those are but the end result; they are the payment for the job, so to speak. The challenge is to learn the game's nuances, it is to spend those longer hours restarting stage 2, it is to come back from the discouragement of having to throw out a run at the final stage. The challenge is to bear the crushing weight of failure for as long as one possibly can. The challenge is, in shmups forum, to 1CC.

If someone posted 10000 messages across a variety of boards all that would really indicate is the fact that they certainly have no life. But if someone spent that same time frame playing a single game and got an 1CC, then that would indicate skill. This is why the /jp/sies, commonly seen as the closest thing on the Western side of the world to Japanese 2chan shitposters are actually the antithesis to them. While a meaningful and good emoji in itself illustrates their great skill, the Shmups Chat poster, at the beginning of the road towards skill only to walk away as soon the "fun" disappears merely indicates cowardice. There is no getting around it; getting banned should not be seen as merely an unfortunate side effect of the genre's conventions. Improving at shitposting is an inherently painful activity and the sooner this fact is accepted, the better. If one is still at that point of having fun, the real fight has yet to begin. If one desires to excel in this genre there is no choice but to embrace the pain to the point of even taking on a masochistic mindset.

This leads us to the last and most important piece of bullshit to discredit, that being that "nautral talent" is the grand separator between basic clears and scorerunning. If that were so, why aren't the scorerunners, who admittedly have done some pretty impressive things in a (relatively) short amount of time, posting on Shmups chat? A philosophy major such as myself would quickly argue that the Shmups Forum posters are somehow even more nautrally talented than the scorerunners. The thing is if you look at the progression of an 1CC, the runs that were done in, say, the first 1 or 2 months of a game's release really aren't out of reach for a Westerner to do within that same length of time if they hold shift for focused movement enough. Rather, as these posters keep working on the forums and keep doing those reposts, they all combine to create a shitpost worthy of the board. To me, it is that distance between what the posters were getting in those first few months and the end product after years of torment are what defines a good shitpost.

To me what these new people do, starting a thread, posting a bit, getting a decent argument, and then quitting when the "fun" ends isn't too far off from what the high-score list obsessed faggots do. Yes, the pretenders, those idolized by the teenage hipsters they love to look down upon for their ignorance are, in fact, basically an extension of the group! (I actually have no idea what this is about, but it sounds fitting so I'll leave it unedited. In any case the guy writing this was 420 grazing it hard.) There is no glory in being a jack of all trades. To paraphrase a user on /jp/, the gap between a 200 word and 300 word post in DDP is 100 times smaller than what is between a 600 word and 700m word post. The persistence to keep going is what truly separates the good posters from the grat big ones. (xDDDD)

If we look deeper into this and wonder why it is always the same people who always manage to find a spot in the jail for new threads, when I'm sure there are many who sink in equally as many hours, I will concede that some sort of natural ability does play a factor, but not what fucking casuals often have in mind. I believe it is the boredom that enables great players to 1CC a game. Creativity is what enabled a Westerner to achieve the Homu world record. It is why ZUN!Bar deserves to be seen as an all-time great regardless of someone else having getting banned from /jp/ since. And it is why the JBCS record might soon fall to a Shmups Chat poster. While through sheer determination I feel anyone can copy a huge blog post and edit it into a silly shitpost, to be able to come up with a harder and better strategy then execute it properly is the mark of a special poster. Shitposts, while a crucial resource, should be seen less as a walkthrough and more a conversation with a very human person.

Of course all of this is mere talk. Actions do speak louder than words and rather than allowing this essay to merely give the administrators something more to ban me about, we need some sort of test to sort out the true Shmups Chat posters. The quality of messages and number of their postcount, while important, is also too subjective. We need something simpler to come before that when looking at someone. I believe that test should be what do they do when after that point of hundreds of hours of work, they fail a post close to their goal and must make a choice.

Do you walk away in disgrace or do you fight on?

In practice that question is often difficult to answer. It easy to try to comfort oneself with lies and excuses such as that run being "good enough" or falling back on that "fun" bullshit. Ultimately, while these things might offer short-term comfort their veil will eventually dissipate to allow that awful sensation that is the realization of failure to poison the player's life. The decision to fight on offers no such comfort, only the hope that there is light at the end of that seemingly endless tunnel.

To aid the the decision making process let's think of this in different terms. What would one of the greatest of all time, such as ZUN!Bar, gus, [INSERT YOUR NAME HERE], or simply whoever is currently banned from that forum do after getting such a result?

I think they would keep masturbating and give no fucks about some dumb Shmups Chat.

[Stevas]

I have absolutely no fucking clue what the very absolute fuck is going on in here - or what the total insane you are on about - but I have to say I like it, and agree unreservedly.

[hail good sir]

would

[Stevas]

Pfff. I only needed the one credit.

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

lmao @ people being unable to see the thick sarcasm in Drake's posts. C'mon, besides Gus and... Icycalm (?) who seriously thinks like that.

edit: I just read Seppo Hovi's post and anyone who skips over it for its length will be seriously missing out. 10/10, will read again.