Rank consoles by shmups

[Mortificator]

I think there was once a play distinction. Home computers, arcades, consoles: for a long time, video games were divided among those three coexisting industries. Each hardware column had its own strengths and weaknesses, so certain types of gameplay were more suited to one or another. Even genres that showed up on all three had a different flavor depending on what you were playing them on. A bit later, handhelds added a fourth.

As time passed, though, the hardware differences became less important. The computer and console markets have merged, arcades have been marginalized, and a large part of handheld gaming has moved from dedicated hardware to mobiles.

[casualcoder]

On the topic of vsync and consoles vs PCs. I've noticed that atleast some (if not all) of my emulated games run much faster (low or zero lag) on PC vs the same games on the X360. I find Guwange has atleast 1 or 2 frames of lag on X360 and none on shmupmame. Same goes for espgaluda II and, well I have yet to test others fully but no doubt about it my emulated PC setup is definitely better than console with vsync turned off.

This leads me to believe that CAVE is using vsync on the X360 which of course negatively effects lag on the sub-60fps games. It's unfortunate because I really want to play Guwange blue, but those frames of lag do make a big difference in how the game feels.

[HydrogLox]

I don't see the fundamental distinction between consoles and PC. They're both computers, one can just do things other than just play games and videos.

Given that only fundamental difference, would then the PS3 (in its original state anyways) qualify as a console by the standards of some of this threads posters? I mean, its capable of running Linux, which would make it a fully capable computer such as a PC, thereby negating its claim as a genuine console?

Clearly not. That being the case, the inverse should also be true, that a game-playing device such as a computer (PC) could also be regarded as a console.

QFT

You are totally missing the point. A console is a standardized hardware platform - the "PC" is not a standardized hardware platform. Just because software can run on a large spectrum of different hardware does not mean that - for example - that it will run at exactly the same speed. On the various SKU iterations of a specific console a piece of software is supposed to run exactly the same.
For example the Xbox 360 has had a number of manufactured designs: Xenon, Zephr, Falcon, Jasper, Trinity, and Corona - they will all run the same Xbox 360 game in exactly the same way. Take PCs from different manufacturers or even the same manufacturer but different hardware configurations with the same operating system - the same software will perform differently on different configurations to the point that the "experience" changes - also think of the difference that just a (cheap vs. good) video card can make.

The PS3 is a standardized hardware platform. All PS3 games will run exactly the same on a launch model and on an end-of-life model (allowing for minimal exceptions).

[louisg]

Well, this is getting pretty far away from the original topic... but I think if PCs (or Amigas, whatever) are considered in someone's list they should be thinking of original games designed explicitly for that system, and not emulation (which is by definition playing a game designed for another computer/console/pcb anyway).

[casualcoder]

You are totally missing the point. A console is a standardized hardware platform - the "PC" is not a standardized hardware platform...

So, by that definition, many Apple computers, including the iPad and iPhone iterations, which are standardized hardware models, should be considered consoles.

[EmperorIng]

The world's most boring internet conversation is now coming to shmups.com!

Coming to a screen near you! TATE mode confirmed!

[louisg]

The world's most boring internet conversation is now coming to shmups.com!

Coming to a screen near you! TATE mode confirmed!

OK, fine... BUT IT'S GOT TATE!!!!! BEST SHMUP PLATFORM IS PHPBB!!!!!!

[Ed Oscuro]

You are totally missing the point. A console is a standardized hardware platform - the "PC" is not a standardized hardware platform...

So, by that definition, many Apple computers, including the iPad and iPhone iterations, which are standardized hardware models, should be considered consoles.

Not to mention any given SKU of PC. It's standardized after all! For example, my very good PC builds are the gold standard

[e_tank]

This leads me to believe that CAVE is using vsync on the X360 which of course negatively effects lag on the sub-60fps games. It's unfortunate because I really want to play Guwange blue, but those frames of lag do make a big difference in how the game feels.

it shouldn't make a difference, as i think all the sub 60 fps cave games are just set to run a little faster at 60 fps instead (ketsui def does this), which is equivalent to using mame -nothrottle -waitvsync -syncrefresh.

it's also worth noting that _if_ your os and video card drivers are setup to use and are capable of doing actual hardware double buffering (and not triple buffering on you somewhere behind the scenes, which unfortunately i think it's common to do so - pls correct me if i'm wrong on that), then for games that run at or close to your monitors refresh rate there is no benefit in disabling vsync in mame, because if you instead use the throttle option mame is set up to sync to real time _before_ it starts the rendering process for a frame. meaning you still won't be getting that frame on your screen any sooner.

[HydrogLox]

The world's most boring internet conversation is now coming to shmups.com!

I tend to agree and unfortunately the persistence of information on the web does not correlate to its accuracy ...

So, by that definition, many Apple computers, including the iPad and iPhone iterations, which are standardized hardware models, should be considered consoles.

Incorrect.

• Not every standardized hardware platform is a console. But console hardware is standardized, on different SKUs the CPU runs at the same clock speed and they tend to have the same amount of RAM, improvements in cache and persistent storage (disk space) notwithstanding.
• Apple's hardware is only standardized within each generation because better processors and new hardware features are introduced with each new generation (that is how they stay in business). So there is no hardware standardization across device generations. Any standardization happens via the operating system (iOS). There is a noticeable performance difference for some apps over the different device generations.

Not to mention any given SKU of PC.

But we aren't talking one single PC SKU, we are talking any SKU that could claim to be a "PC" - this doesn't even identify the OS or the OS version - i.e. so "PC" is not a hardware or software standard by any stretch of the imagination.

In general an "arcade PCB type" is a standardized hardware platform but it isn't considered a console because it was never intended for the consumer market. The Taito Type X3 standard is a bit more liberal as it actually allows for 3 different CPUs, 2 different video cards and a range of memory and persistent storage - however it still is very specific about the variations that are permitted within the standard. So the Taito Type X3 is a standardized platform that uses "PC" components but it isn't a console because it was never targeted for the consumer market. Meanwhile you could build a "PC" to the "Taito Type X3" specification - but that does not mean that all "PCs" are standardized.

This isn't about invalidating "PCs" as a platform for playing STGs. Some people will only play arcade PCBs. Others prefer the simplicity of consoles. Still others like the wealth of options given by "PCs".