Are shmups too lonely?

[cools]

I cleared Dodonpachi after about 2 hours invested in the PCB, and when I knuckled down to DOJ BL I spent about 25 minutes a day and played approx 5 days a week. Took about 6 weeks for the clear.

Now for Ibara.

[Hagane]

TSS = Twinkle Star Sprites. The only directly competitive shmup that I know of (other than Senko no Ronde). Apparently it's playable online but I haven't seen how so.

http://damdai.com/supercade

You can also play it on GGPO with some trickery on the unsupported room.

No. No, it really hasn't.

Yes. Yes, it really has. I know I wouldn't be playing fighting games seriously if it weren't for GGPO and 2DF/Supercade, and I wouldn't have met a lot of cool people offline either. Several of my best offline friends are people I first met playing fighting games online.

[Drake]

I was introduced to shmups through one forum. I learned and discussed and played through shmups alongside another forum. I've never felt an obligation to really compete besides when I wanted to, the community is just there and you converse. The competition isn't what's important, it's just one way to participate. Co-founded IRC channel, now we're full of really good shmuppers even though the purpose wasn't really to discuss shmups. Really I can't ever recall a time where shmups for me weren't centered around a community, so even though it's obvious that community in shmups might be waning since you don't really find arcades around anymore, I don't find that feeling of loneliness in playing the genre.

[Eaglet]

If you base your identity around video games, you're going to end up lonely, and socially and intellectually deprived. End of story.

This.


Also agree with what Skykid and others have been saying about loneliness and how it's not related to playing a form of video game or not.
I play about 2-3 hours of STG an average week and spend the rest of my time at work, working out, hanging out with ma pals, getting shitfaced and fornicate with hitherto UKF's.
I enjoy my life.

[Formless God]

Forums exist, scoreboards exist; an arcade/'social' environment is ultimately moot as once you're controlling the ship, everybody simply disappears. So no, STGs have never really felt lonely to me.

On socializing: It's an colossal cockblock to your own prowess. The only people worth socializing with are contacts, anyway. Hanging out with friends doesn't make me a better programmer; partying doesn't help my performance in uni; getting laid means I suddenly give up several hours a day that could've been better spent on 3DCG or studying another language. I don't hate myself enough to do that. Need stress relief? Switch tasks.

[Squire Grooktook]

I don't really feel that there's anything lonely about it. Shmups are a PvE experience, you against the computer and that's it is what it's all about really. Being able to share your favorite game with a friend is great and all, but that's something you can do with any game or anything, and you shouldn't need the game to have something built in to encourage it.

[Bananamatic]

On socializing: It's an colossal cockblock to your own prowess. The only people worth socializing with are contacts, anyway. Hanging out with friends doesn't make me a better programmer; partying doesn't help my performance in uni; getting laid means I suddenly give up several hours a day that could've been better spent on 3DCG or studying another language. I don't hate myself enough to do that. Need stress relief? Switch tasks.

How do you do that

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

getting laid means I suddenly give up several hours

How do you do that

[Special World]

my shmups aren't lonely

they have many other shmups to play with

[KAI]

I've been playing fighting games with my friends today (SSF2 MD). It was fun as fuck, but I feel dirty every time I win a match. In contrast, when I score in shmups I feel so satisfied.
If you make me choose between these 2 experiences, I prefer to be a unsociable bastard.

[Squire Grooktook]

If either of you are feeling bad about winning matches, then you're doing it wrong.

[louisg]

My shmups were lonely, so I bought a bunch more to keep them company.

[KAI]

If either of you are feeling bad about winning matches, then you're doing it wrong.

Winning 25 matches in a row by using dirty tricks makes me feel dirty. Fightings are about cheating and exploiting your opponent's weaknesses.

[Squire Grooktook]

If either of you are feeling bad about winning matches, then you're doing it wrong.

Fightings are about cheating and exploiting your opponent's weaknesses.

That's true (although your not cheating unless your using GameShark) but there's nothing wrong with that.

My more experienced friend used to beat me 100+ times in a row at Marvel Vs Capcom 2 when I first got into the game, but I still enjoyed it. My philosophy is that there's no reason why losing cannot be fun, so I try to always learn and enjoy my matches even if things are looking bleak.

It's part of my philosophy for action games in general. Winning is nice, but whether you win or lose it's the journey itself that's the most fun part.

[Skykid]

getting laid means I suddenly give up several hours

How do you do that

Tantric sex.

I cleared Dodonpachi after about 2 hours invested in the PCB, and when I knuckled down to DOJ BL I spent about 25 minutes a day and played approx 5 days a week. Took about 6 weeks for the clear.

Now for Ibara.

Not got access to that hellishness currently. I'm going to try for the Bakraid advance clear to satisfy my inner Yagawa.

Shmups, like many arcade games, are designed to be mastered 1 player, so it's always better to take it on alone. The only problem is, arcade games are meant to exist in an arcade environment, which is social. Now they're like fish out of water, and that's the loneliest thing about them.

The only way this paragraph can even begin to make sense is if you had joined these communities in 2012, not 2007 or whenever.

What?

Fighting games on your own, now that would be lonely. Online has done wonderful things to save that genre.

No. No, it really hasn't.

If there's any more help you need in making yourself sound like an ill-informed idiot, be sure to holler.

[Squire Grooktook]

I think what he may have meant is that online may have strengthened fighting games appeal among many gamers, but fighters were never really "saved". In between the real advent of online fighting games, tournaments were still extremely active in both America and Japan. It was during this period that many power house franchises of today like Guilty Gear and Marvel Vs Capcom developed the following that made them what they are today.

Add "iirc" to all of the above.

[Skykid]

There's no need for such literal interpretations. FTG's require competition to thrive. After the death of arcades local communities have kept players together best they can with meet-up competitions and associations, but online has allowed the genre to be competitively active 24/7, encouraging new players all the time and boosting interest in real life tournaments. Fighting games require players to practice against one another, online provides the tool. I can't imagine where the genre would be without the likes of GGPO/XBLA etc.

[Aliquantic]

I can't imagine where the genre would be without the likes of GGPO/XBLA etc.

And if someone needs help to try and imagine that, just look at any game without a passable online netcode, and see how hard it is to find players for that game outside of certain regional scenes. On a tangent: I'm surprised Wartech never caught on...

[gray117]

I think the loneliest thing about shumps is that there just isn't much to discuss about them. They're short & relatively simple games, so any questions you have can be answered by watching a replay, looking at a guide (if one exists), or loading the game up and experimenting for a little while (with some exceptions, perhaps). And aside from that, there are like 1000 shumps out there, so the player base for each game can be very small. If somebody wants to discuss high-level scoring techniques in Blast Off for example, who the hell are they going to talk to?

^ It's their beauty and curse; only among the more invested/enthusiastic are such apparently casual games going to garner such attention - niche is not something that just is an affliction, but a kind of filtered result of how the games play ... Personally I tend to enjoy a bit of time to myself. When the opportunity presents I find it's pretty easy in attracting a friend to have a go - but apart from one or two it just won't stick.

Then there's the problem of titles - how on earth do you refer people to some available landmark shmups - dodonpachi, ikaruga ... it's not exactly gears of war [insert number here] or even mario is it? What with gradius, thunderforce and r-type dropping by the wayside, there isn't much catch-iness or brand nostalgia about for western ears.

... having a western friendly title is probably one of deathsmiles better moves... the over-sexualised lolis were probably also of some 'success', but that crap generally keeps you lonely.

[Hagane]

Actually, there's a lot to discuss about STGs. You can't learn everything by simply watching a replay since there are lots of things that can go unnoticed/not understood if you aren't very knowledgeable about the game, sometimes there aren't replays for the game/ship you use or the replays are so high level that many of the featured techniques are irreproducible for most players.

[Kollision]

deathsmiles ... the over-sexualised lolis were probably also of some 'success', but that crap generally keeps you lonely.

I never understood why there are people who consider the lolis in Deathsmiles "oversexualized".

On topic, RNGmaster said it all.

[Special World]

Yeah, I don't think there's really anything in the game itself that's risque. It's only when you listen to people talk about it that it sounds problematic.

That being said, I don't think anybody in the west was really drawn in by lolita goth characters. I think it would have gotten a better reception here with more of a Dodonpachi style - manly space-ships with prominent anime pilots. Personally I wish it would have gone with a much stronger horror feel, I think it would be great to blast away at tried-and-true horrors. Though I would like the cartooney feel just fine if Cave didn't use their weird pre-rendered graphics, or however they do those models.

[Pallerå]

ANIME GRAPHIC DISCUSSION / DEBATE GOES TO EVERY TOPIC

[CloudyMusic]

The only people worth socializing with are contacts, anyway. Hanging out with friends doesn't make me a better programmer; partying doesn't help my performance in uni; getting laid means I suddenly give up several hours a day that could've been better spent on 3DCG or studying another language. I don't hate myself enough to do that.

Man, that sounds like a depressing life.

---

If you ask me, prioritize your real life, your work, your social life, and your love life (if applicable) first. Let shmups fill in the gaps. It's great to have a hobby that you're passionate about, but it should never cause you to miss out on any of those other things.

That said, sometimes the solitude can be nice. I'm married, have real-life friends and work a busy job, and value the solitude that shmups sometimes allows me to indulge in because it allows me to have some time to myself, working solely on self-improvement with a hobby that I enjoy passing the time with.

Even then, though, there are communities like this one that allow us to encourage one another on goals, compete over scores, and share tips and experiences. Maybe you can get to know the other people in the community who are passionate about your game of choice, or set up a rivalry. Even a community such as this one can be a little less lonely if you try a little bit.

[KAI]

Videogames in general should be a sort of escapism, not as social activity.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

One of the Deathsmiles cover arts was kind of saucy. The one where she's got her legs wrapped round the other one and they're all touching and blushing and making the "O" face.

[Skykid]

ANIME GRAPHIC DISCUSSION / DEBATE GOES TO EVERY TOPIC

Just way too fulfilling not to rag on little weeaboo sweethearts pining for some pen and ink love.

[Pallerå]

I meant this

deathsmiles ... the over-sexualised lolis were probably also of some 'success', but that crap generally keeps you lonely.

I never understood why there are people who consider the lolis in Deathsmiles "oversexualized"

Maybe my Dodonpachi Resurrection is a bit lonely, the only friends she has from the same country are K-on Houkagou Live HD and No More Heroes, but their interests differ a bit from hers. Needless to say she doesn't enjoy the company of Killzone 3, Gran Turismo 5 and the other american boys.

[n0rtygames]

Yeah, I don't think there's really anything in the game itself that's risque. It's only when you listen to people talk about it that it sounds problematic.

There aren't really any risque shmups that I know of. It's all the box art. You know why?

BECAUSE TITS AND SEXUAL IMAGERY SELLS.

Rosa has an upskirt shot on most of the promotional material for deathsmiles. That's about it.. the rest are just "cutesy goth girls". So naturally, according to my friend - me actually y'know playing the game is tantamount to paedophilia because of the box art which is designed to get you to pick the box up and look at it... (or click the image on a website)

Guess what... it achieves that goal. People go on as though somehow shmups are basically hentai, with little girls being raped by tentacles. It's depressing, because it makes the accusers look stupid and uninformed.

tbh, the cover art just looks like a weekend walk through Camden in London.

*rolls eyes*

[Skykid]

Boy... that got me real deep. Made me think. You really got right to the heart of it. Man, next time I see an oversexualised twelve year old representing a videogame genre that absolutely doesn't require it I'll think of your post and feel content. SEX SELLS. UNDERAGE CHILDREN IN SEXUALLY GRATIFYING ATTIRE SELLS.

Again, finally, all is well with the world. Fuck feeling guilty next time I brush up against a preteen in a shopping mall. Sex sells. Fuck you.