Want to get a 31khz monitor. Any help appreciated.

[fagin]

I've already gone down this route.... using a PC CRT for tate gaming in my office.

Works awesomely well with one of my XRGB's or SLG (depending on source) for PCB's, retro consoles and 360 connection. Very BVM like imo.

I must do a YT video explaining it all at some point.

[NWrain]

Drove around today, and looked at multiple CRT monitors, but they were all in pretty poor condition. The local CRT market is not looking that great.

How does this monitor look?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mitsubishi-TFM8 ... 2328422546

Does a scaler determine over scanning or is it up to the display?

both are possible, but if you want to use a SLG, you cannot use a "scaler", you need a linedoubler and with linedoubling you can't do overscan control, because you lose the pixel/line alignment (and then the SLG won't look good anymore). On a PC CRT you can easily stretch the picture on both axis to get rid of any borders.

I'm not sure I understand 100%. Taking the SLG out of the equation, can there be overscan control on a line doubled image?

[Fudoh]

Taking the SLG out of the equation, can there be overscan control on a line doubled image?

yes, a Scaler can do this, but I would still not recommend it, since scaling in lower resolutions is problematic and scaling 448p to 480p just hurts the quality.

[Lawfer]

Are any Ikegami SD CRT monitors 31khz?

[Lawfer]

Fudoh, do you know if the Ikegami TM20-80RP or any other model does 31khz?

[Fudoh]

I don't know the Ikegami monitors. Never seen one over here.

[Lawfer]

I don't know the Ikegami monitors. Never seen one over here.

Ikegami Europe branch is supposed to be baed in Germany.

http://www.ikegami.de/products/broadcast/sdtv_monitor/

http://www.dsvideo.tv/ikegami_1268.php

[Fudoh]

didnt say that don't exist, just never saw one.

[Lawfer]

didnt say that don't exist, just never saw one.

Oh ok, cant figure out if it is 31Khz, but here are some videos if you are interested:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmyYP8Ta3BQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_4dugnqN1Q

[Fudoh]

The TM20-80RH/RP is 15khz only. Similar to the oldest Sony BVM sets with analogue controls.

[Lawfer]

The TM20-80RH/RP is 15khz only. Similar to the oldest Sony BVM sets with analogue controls.

Phew good thing I didnt buy it then, thanks.

[Lawfer]

By the way I want to ask two questions pls, how do you figure out if a monitor is 15 khz or 31 khz if it is not indicated anywhere? Is it based on the amount of scan lines or something?

Also, are there some CRT SD Monitors that are 15 khz but cant do 480i?

[ryu]

By the way I want to ask two questions pls, how do you figure out if a monitor is 15 khz or 31 khz if it is not indicated anywhere? Is it based on the amount of scan lines or something?

Also, are there some CRT SD Monitors that are 15 khz but cant do 480i?

if it's not indicated anywhere the monitor usually supports 15khz only. if it's vga tube the specs will usually talk about the monitor accepting horizontal frequencies of so and so many hz to so and so many hz.

i have never heard of a 15khz crt that does not support 480i. you don't need to worry about that.

[Lawfer]

if it's not indicated anywhere the monitor usually supports 15khz only. if it's vga tube the specs will usually talk about the monitor accepting horizontal frequencies of so and so many hz to so and so many hz.

Are there mot many monitors that support 31khz? From what I can tell upon researching, only the SONY PGM models seem to do the following:

31Khz (Native max resolution 640x480)
15khz and 24khz not automatically supported
4:3
CRT

ii have never heard of a 15khz crt that does not support 480i. you don't need to worry about that.

Thanks, great to hear.

[Fudoh]

There are 29" and 37" multisync (15-31+khz) models from Mitsubishi and NEC. Also there're lots of higher end TV sets like Loewe or Metz which have VGA input modules (in addition to their 15khz modes).

[Lawfer]

There are 29" and 37" multisync (15-31+khz) models from Mitsubishi and NEC. Also there're lots of higher end TV sets like Loewe or Metz which have VGA input modules (in addition to their 15khz modes).

Does this moniror qualifies in this list?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190802227635

[Fudoh]

I don't even know where to start with answering this. Why do link to a 26 year old VGA CRT in the USA, when we were just talking about multisync monitors and you're over here in Europe ?

[Ed Oscuro]

that monitor looks nasty, in a charming kind of way, but yeah look for something closer to home

[NWrain]

I had a stroke of good luck today. I drove around and found a 21" Panasonic E110 CRT monitor. It was by far the best condition monitor that I came across. It was chore to move it, but it works fine. The contrast is a little low with the SLG3000 enabled, but that was to be expected. I'll also need to do some geometry changes. I tested it out with a Sega Saturn and the Extron Andora. For some reason with this linedoubler, 30hz shadows are invisible. Strange.

Can not wait until the Xrgb1 comes.

[Fudoh]

For some reason with this linedoubler, 30hz shadows are invisible.

even if you switch the odd/even scanline setting on the SLG ?

[NWrain]

I switched the odd/even setting, and I gained some 30hz effects, and lost some 30hz effects. It must be because of the way it weaves the signal.

[Fudoh]

that's right. And funny, now that you mention it. one scanline setting would elimintate the effects on the odd frames, while the other would kill the even ones. Didn't pay too much attention to that on my short timespan with an Andora. You'll like the XRGB, although I don't understand why you went for the oldest one of them all

[NWrain]

I definitely still want a Xrgb 2. I want this one in particular, but it's a bit too expensive.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44315

Is there something fundamentally wrong with the original Xrgb like weak vertical sync, bad capacitors, and or being cursed by a Japanese mythical beast?

It hasn't been very long, but I am really enjoy using a computer monitor. It is very quiet which I am thankful for. I have noticed that my 1Chip-03 SNES has more contrast than my Model 2 Sega Saturn. The Saturn is a little dark. 480P looks excellent on this 1600x1200 native resolution monitor.

I've been practicing taking photo's for my future XRGB1 minature review. Does anyone know how to reduce moire effects when taking photos of CRTs?

As a thank you to everyone. Here are some pictures of a 1Chip-03 SNES.

[Fudoh]

I want this one in particular is, but a it's a bit too expensive.

it certainly is.

Is there something fundamentally wrong with the original Xrgb like weak vertical sync, bad capacitors, and or being cursed by a Japanese mythical beast?

never had one. When I first switching to using a large 31khz CRT the XRGB-2 was the current model. The 1 has some japanese PC output connector, while the 2 at least had a standard VGA connector.

I've been practicing taking photo's for my future XRGB1 minature review. Does anyone know how to reduce moire effects when taking photos of CRTs?

yes, try reducing the digicam shots in 2 or 3 steps instead of directly resizing to your final resolution.

PS: That's on the Andora right ? Mind if I add these to my Andora review ?

[Ed Oscuro]

I don't want to hijack the thread but SuperDeadite had better luck with the DISPL upscaler than with the XRGB-2 and 2+ combo. I would like to get one myself.

The 15-pin (8 and 7 pins in two rows) analogue RGB output is probably X68000 or FM Towns compatible format, and a simple 15-pin to PC VGA cable should allow it to work perfectly on a PC monitor. I've got one, they work.

[Fudoh]

of course, the output signal is the same. Easy work.

had better luck with the DISPL upscaler

as stated several times before, the only advantage of the DISPL is that is it allows 15khz input timings with more than 240p lines. For example it you have a Irem 55Hz board with 256 lines (R-Type), the DISPL will output 512p55 (which no LCD can work with), while the XRGB-2, 3 etc will output 480p55 with increased sync timings to keep the 31khz. This way you lose a few lines on top and bottom on the XRGB-2 and 3. For use with home systems the DISPL has no advantage whatsoever and exactly the same picture quality.

[NWrain]

PS: That's on the Andora right ? Mind if I add these to my Andora review ?

Yes, this is with the Andora. I don't mind at all. The only thing I can add regarding the Andora is that it doesn't work very well with LCDs.

I don't want to hijack the thread but SuperDeadite had better luck with the DISPL upscaler than with the XRGB-2 and 2+ combo. I would like to get one myself.

The 15-pin (8 and 7 pins in two rows) analogue RGB output is probably X68000 or FM Towns compatible format, and a simple 15-pin to PC VGA cable should allow it to work perfectly on a PC monitor. I've got one, they work.

The unit I bought has an adapter included so no worries.

I have to admit that I wanted a DISPL when I saw that review too. I believe the main advantage was that it worked better for a select few PCBs, and that it had better picture centering. I still haven't decided whether I want to get into Superguns and arcade PCBs.

[Ed Oscuro]

There's really nothing wrong with the XRGBs but I admit I'd pay good money not to have to fiddle with centering. However only the XRGB-2, to my knowledge, has selectable 220 ohm resistors on the RGB lines, allowing you to dim the image - it's a very good idea. Maybe the original and the DISPL have it and I don't know about it. The 2+ doesn't.

[NWrain]

I can definitely see why people would want it. Unfortunately, it is very rare.

The Xrgb1 has knobs and dip switches for everything. One of the dip switches is labeled NTSC-PCB so I believe it has the 220 ohm resistors. It will definitely be useful in the far future when I can afford to buy Ibara Kuro.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yup, it has resistors then. Very handy. Dunno why the XRGB-2+ doesn't have them.