Prejudice on Shmupsforum

[Skykid]

I do not understand how this is classed as racism, whether the assertion is incorrect or otherwise.

I don't have any belief that Jews 'control' banks (that's a conspiracy idea) so I'm out of this before things get misunderstood.

[nasty_wolverine]

hey, I am an Indian and no one made fun of me yet...
I feel discriminated against...

[GaijinPunch]

hey, I am an Indian and no one made fun of me yet...
I feel discriminated against...

Well Mark, that's because we assumed you were too busy giving tech support to another forum member on the phone.

[O. Van Bruce]

Not all of the jews are some kind of evil masterminds behind the power, but there is an important and very influential group of jewish individuals lobbying in order to protect their interests.

when you put into the mix that this individuals are trying to justify the state of Israel and its policies toward the palestinians, you'll end up with a bad reputation

[Skykid]

hey, I am an Indian and no one made fun of me yet...
I feel discriminated against...

Well Mark, that's because we assumed you were too busy giving tech support to another forum member on the phone.

I just about pissed myself.

[nasty_wolverine]

hey, I am an Indian and no one made fun of me yet...
I feel discriminated against...

Well Mark, that's because we assumed you were too busy giving tech support to another forum member on the phone.

I just about pissed myself.

That reminds me, when i was in a mortgage callcenter (not anymore though), there was a guy who's alias was Jim Morrison...
and another with the alias Justin Credible...

A friend who was in tech support received a complaint from USA that his recovery CD was broken, he asked how broken, like scratched or split in half, the guy said it had a hole in the center, my friend explained thats how CD's are, the guy said he thought only music CD's had holes in them...

[louisg]

I do not understand how this is classed as racism, whether the assertion is incorrect or otherwise.

I don't have any belief that Jews 'control' banks (that's a conspiracy idea) so I'm out of this before things get misunderstood.

Because you need to understand the history behind it. People have asserted that "Jews control banks" to imply that there's a world-wide conspiracy and that Jews are the puppet masters. It's a way of being antisemitic without having to come right out and say it; it's the dogwhistle of yesteryear. And, it was one of the things used to justify genocide. I'm Jewish and have encountered actual real life antisemitism, so it's something personal. But I also feel the same way when I hear people talking in coded and not-so-coded language about Muslims or other races. It's all different shades of the same BS. And it's really insidious. It's easy to think that "oh, it's just common sense, everyone knows it's true", but when you start challenging it, it breaks down rapidly.

What makes the subject of racism so tricky and complicated is that it has a *lot* to do with nuance and history. For example, saying "Arabs control all the oil" isn't even a true statement. Russia produces a lot, and so does the United States (we imported about half our oil, but half was produced domestically) http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=268&t=6. And it's not even every Arab country who is lucky enough to be sustained by an oil industry. When people say that, I think all they're really thinking about is Saudi Arabia, who has done pretty damn well.

To top it off, this really just has to do with the natural resources of certain countries in the middle east. It has *nothing to say about the people of those countries*, and that's the really important part.

So, in short, racism is tricky because it's not just what the literal meaning of a sentence or two is, it's what it implies, and where making assertions like that have landed us, the human race.

Not all of the jews are some kind of evil masterminds behind the power, but there is an important and very influential group of jewish individuals lobbying in order to protect their interests.

when you put into the mix that this individuals are trying to justify the state of Israel and its policies toward the palestinians, you'll end up with a bad reputation

I actually do agree to some extent, and it frightens me what's going on with Israel because it can easily be used as justification against Jews as a whole, no matter how misguided that would be. We need to be able to talk about Israel-Palistine politics without involving race. Quick guide (not accusing you, but just in general):

- I'd be careful with the term Zionism. Like I said before with racism being just as much about history as anything else, that word has a precarious history.

- Don't conflate Jews with Israel. Israeli politics is different from what Jews as a whole think. Not even every Israeli agrees with what's going on over there. And you also have to put yourself into someone else's shoes-- a lot of horrible things happen because people are really scared. It's a terrible cycle. And this is in no way a justification, just an explanation.

Anyway, that's my view.

[O. Van Bruce]

people tend to think of the jews as a whole because they've allways had a very strong sense of comunity.

Then we have the most visible part of the comunity, the zionists,who keep thinking of Israel as the chosen people and constantly tries to lessen the visibility of their pervasive influence via the holocaust or the massive media.

In the end, people relate the small extremely racist group to the whole an thus, modern antisemitism is born.

[louisg]

people tend to think of the jews as a whole because they've allways had a very strong sense of comunity.

Then we have the most visible part of the comunity, the zionists,who keep thinking of Israel as the chosen people and constantly tries to lessen the visibility of their pervasive influence via the holocaust or the massive media.

In the end, people relate the small extremely racist group to the whole an thus, modern antisemitism is born.

Well, it doesn't help when opinion columnists who are pro-settlement fanatics (read: crazy) conflate the two also. It really does everyone else a disservice. But the Jewish community, at least in the States, is actually pretty well fragmented (I know from experience ).

[Ed Oscuro]

One, mesh control is right by all of us, we all need to get out a bit more, I'm sure, and spend less time in OT. This probably includes spending less time following posters around and asking for bans when they post.

I believe it's a good thing for a community to try to police itself a little. On the other hand it's also possible to get so wrapped up in trying to enforce PCness and even getting really indignant, on behalf of other people, as to cross over into useless hysteria.

I also wonder what trap15's little story was supposed to tell us. It's OK to use "harmless" words in the U.S. like nigger, but not to say "Ausfags?" Whether this is true or not, I don't think it will help guide us towards right conduct because it looks like setting up a double standard.

Anyway I'm well ready for us to leave this behind and start over.

Also, good shit there GaijinPunch. Could it have been neorichie, PC-Engine Fan X!, or myself getting the tech support? I think we're all prime suspects for that Suddenly I am very curious to hear what a tech support call from those two might sound like. Especially if one of them was the tech supporter.

[DEL]

O.Van Bruce wrote;

people tend to think of the jews as a whole because they've allways had a very strong sense of community.

Then we have the most visible part of the community, the zionists,who keep thinking of Israel as the chosen people and constantly tries to lessen the visibility of their pervasive influence via the holocaust or the massive media.

In the end, people relate the small extremely racist group to the whole an thus, modern antisemitism is born.

Very well put.

I went to school with many Jewish people and I know a lot of very nice ones. I totally agree that sometimes a group of extremists in any community can put a stigma on the whole group, and this is unfair and wrong.

[Ed Oscuro]

In b4 "MANY OF　ＭＹ BEST FRIENDS　ＡＲＥ A MINORITY"

[Super Laydock]

A friend who was in tech support received a complaint from USA that his recovery CD was broken, he asked how broken, like scratched or split in half, the guy said it had a hole in the center, my friend explained thats how CD's are, the guy said he thought only music CD's had holes in them...

And that's where I failed to get to the bathroom in time.
You just can't make this stuff up.

On topic: everyone has prejudices and uses stereotyping and that's good too.
They help you order this chaotic world.
As long as you don't expect them to be true all of the time it's good enough imho.

[Friendly]

- I'd be careful with the term Zionism.

Isn't Zionism basically the Jewish variety of racism?
Don't they consider themselves the "chosen people", believe they should interbreed only with other Jews while non-Jews are outsiders who can't become Jews? Don't they also believe they have the right to a specific "living space", which they took by military force?

Replace the word "Jew" with "Arian" and it becomes a summary of the core ideology of Nazism.

[Leandro]

That reminds me, when i was in a mortgage callcenter (not anymore though), there was a guy who's alias was Jim Morrison...
and another with the alias Justin Credible...

A friend who was in tech support received a complaint from USA that his recovery CD was broken, he asked how broken, like scratched or split in half, the guy said it had a hole in the center, my friend explained thats how CD's are, the guy said he thought only music CD's had holes in them...

LOL, awesome.

[nasty_wolverine]

That reminds me, when i was in a mortgage callcenter (not anymore though), there was a guy who's alias was Jim Morrison...
and another with the alias Justin Credible...

A friend who was in tech support received a complaint from USA that his recovery CD was broken, he asked how broken, like scratched or split in half, the guy said it had a hole in the center, my friend explained thats how CD's are, the guy said he thought only music CD's had holes in them...

LOL, awesome.

Once a guy called in to say that the coffee tray provided with the computer kept spilling his coffee, tech-assist asked what coffee tray?? guy said, you know the one where you press the button on the tower, the tray comes out and press it again it goes back in...

On topic: you know sometimes a friendly jab can look like racism, but people in context get it... sometimes a friendly jab can turn into racism...
what i dont get is black people call each other niggers and when some one who's not black calls a black the same, all hell breaks loose...
I dont have a problem being called brown, i am brown... but depends on what intent you call me brown with...

[trap15]

I also wonder what trap15's little story was supposed to tell us. It's OK to use "harmless" words in the U.S. like nigger, but not to say "Ausfags?" Whether this is true or not, I don't think it will help guide us towards right conduct because it looks like setting up a double standard.

Ah, I was hoping people would understand what I meant, but I guess not. And when I look back at it, I don't even know what I was trying to say I wasn't trying to say "nigger" is better than adding -fag to a word, but... hmm... what did I mean

[undamned]

if someone's offended, it's not appropriate.

Heh, good luck not offending people on the internet. Yes, we should all try harder to not be purposefully offensive, but almost anything said has the potential to offend someone.
-ud

[BIL]

Indeed, I try to get along with everyone but occasionally I'll post this thing and set my repute back a generation, certainly in Vokatse's eyes.

[GaijinPunch]

but there is an important and very influential group of jewish individuals lobbying in order to protect their interests.

Yes, b/c Jews are the only type of rich people who are assholes and lobby for questionably moral things in favor of losing their wealth. That's why people here think you're a racist.

FYI, you are describing "the old boys club". Many governments are made up of such a group of people today... such as, Japan's government. They have actually redefined the behavior you're moaning about. So, why not just stick to the moderately distasteful jew jokes. The best ones couple catholics in the same punchline.

That reminds me, when i was in a mortgage callcenter (not anymore though), there was a guy who's alias was Jim Morrison...
and another with the alias Justin Credible...

Haha -- that's hilarious. Did they pick their own? Mine would have been Dick Beninya.

When I was a freshman at college I knew a portly black fellow named Michael Douglas, who turned out to be gay. He didn't pick his name though!

[casualcoder]

Hmm, funny I haven't noticed any bigoted comments on these boards. I was just thinking how much cleaner and tolerant it seems compared to, say, shoryuken.

Perhaps the average age for this category of gaming is slightly higher (owing to the generally 'retro' nature of the content) then most other genres but perhaps I'm just not seeing it. References would be worthwhile (it would be fun punching in every known bigoted pejorative term in the search bar for research).

With that said, I think it's distasteful to throw around incendiary terms for no reason but to sound ironic. It's not edgy or funny when every pre-teen with a vocal octave high enough to make Mariah Carey jealous calls you a fag over Call of Duty. Thats who I think about when I think about the types of people who throw these terms around on forums or whatnot.

[Ed Oscuro]

Once a guy called in to say that the coffee tray provided with the computer kept spilling his coffee, tech-assist asked what coffee tray?? guy said, you know the one where you press the button on the tower, the tray comes out and press it again it goes back in...

I think you're quoting from the "stories to tell credible Westerners who ask about tech support" manual, because that's an oldie

Although I wouldn't be too surprised if that one still happens now and then...

[nasty_wolverine]

Once a guy called in to say that the coffee tray provided with the computer kept spilling his coffee, tech-assist asked what coffee tray?? guy said, you know the one where you press the button on the tower, the tray comes out and press it again it goes back in...

I think you're quoting from the "stories to tell credible Westerners who ask about tech support" manual, because that's an oldie

Although I wouldn't be too surprised if that one still happens now and then...

These are one off cases that use to happen, very rare... The most common thing that used to happen is ask them to look behind the computer, and they would be looking behind the monitor, you would have to explain them to look at the big black 1 foot tower next to the computer to get them to look at the right thing, and the mandatory question before beginning any tech support call, "Did you plug it in?"

That reminds me, when i was in a mortgage callcenter (not anymore though), there was a guy who's alias was Jim Morrison...
and another with the alias Justin Credible...

Haha -- that's hilarious. Did they pick their own? Mine would have been Dick Beninya.

Yeah, they use to, then they stopped it, coz the calling floor was becoming like heaven for dead rockstars...

[O. Van Bruce]

but there is an important and very influential group of jewish individuals lobbying in order to protect their interests.

Yes, b/c Jews are the only type of rich people who are assholes and lobby for questionably moral things in favor of losing their wealth. That's why people here think you're a racist.

FYI, you are describing "the old boys club". Many governments are made up of such a group of people today... such as, Japan's government. They have actually redefined the behavior you're moaning about. So, why not just stick to the moderately distasteful jew jokes. The best ones couple catholics in the same punchline.

When that lobby is used to defend crimes against humanity, state terrorism and, to make it worst, point at anyone who dennounce then by saying he's a fascist/anti-semite then it really is a problem.

Just think of how much money the U.S. goverment invests on the security of Israel and how little they care about the Palestinians.

Hell, I'm sure if that jewish lobby wasn't there the USA would have voted yes for this. Maybe, Palestine would be a normal state right now if it wasn't for that lobby.

[Friendly]

@O. Van Bruce
Of course there are Israely lobby goups, just like there are lobbyists for Switzerland, tobacco, wepaons, cars, Christianity, high-fructose corn syrup, flannel shirts and plastic bottles. So what?
The point is that there is no Jewish world conspiracy secretly pulling the strings.

[O. Van Bruce]

@O. Van Bruce
Of course there are Jewish lobby goups, just like there are lobbyists for Christianity, Islam, tobacco, wepaons, cars, high-fructose corn syrup, flannel shirts and plastic bottles. So what?
The point is that there is no Jewish world conspiracy secretly pulling the strings.

I've never thought about some big conspiracy to control the world by the Zionist that's ridicoulous. But their presence as a pressure group is significant and what they defend can sometimes be specially villanous.

[Friendly]

Sorry, I edited my post while you replied. The lobby you referred to isn't even about Judaism, it's about Israel.

The thing is, "the Jews" as a homogenous group with a sigular mindset/idiology/opinion don't exist.

[louisg]

- I'd be careful with the term Zionism.

Isn't Zionism basically the Jewish variety of racism?
Don't they consider themselves the "chosen people", believe they should interbreed only with other Jews while non-Jews are outsiders who can't become Jews? Don't they also believe they have the right to a specific "living space", which they took by military force?

Replace the word "Jew" with "Arian" and it becomes a summary of the core ideology of Nazism.

When talking about Zionists, it depends who you really mean. It only gets touchy because it ends up being thrown around as a code-word for Jews. Like when I hear zionist this and that in some huge rant, a more sweeping generalization isn't far behind. Yes, once again, racist idiots have screwed everything up for everybody and made everything unnecessarily complicated.

BTW the photo you linked I believe is of people who believe Israel shouldn't exist because it's not really the word of God. Extreme fundamentalists. But, nevertheless, a good example of Jewish culture not being very homogenous.

[Hagane]

Not all of the XXXXXs are some kind of evil masterminds behind the power, but there is an important and very influential group of XXXXX individuals lobbying in order to protect their interests.

Now fill with any country / race you hate. You can also add "but I have some XXXXX friends who are really cool" for bonus points.

[nasty_wolverine]

Not all of the XXXXXs are some kind of evil masterminds behind the power, but there is an important and very influential group of XXXXX individuals lobbying in order to protect their interests.

Now fill with any country / race you hate. You can also add "but I have some XXXXX friends who are really cool" for bonus points.

^This. Priceless...