Integrating the SLG 3000 with Framemeister

helmeto · Post by **helmeto** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:18 am

Hi. I am trying to figure out the best way to integrate the SLG 3000 with the Framemeister upscaler. I actually tried using a HDMI to VGA cable and I failed to get any signal...even without the SLG 3000, I couldn't get a signal using a direct VGA to HDMI cable. I don't want to waste more money on cables without the correct knowledge so I was hoping someone could guide me in the right direction. I was thinking about going HDMI to VGA to SLG 3000 to VGA to HDMI but not sure if that would even work. Thanks for any help!

helmeto

Thamiel · Post by **Thamiel** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:29 am

I can't be the only person wondering what the point of this would be...

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:07 pm

That's right - there's really no point in adding a SLG.

But if you desperately want to (in order to make the 480p scanlines look better), you need a HDMI to VGA converter, not just a cable. Mini > HDFury > SLG3000 for example works fine. I already used it this way.

You should be aware that the SLG only works properly with 480p and 576p output from the Mini, but 720p with internal scanlines from the Mini looks better in the first place.

helmeto · Post by **helmeto** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:45 pm

Well thanks for the help! I guess I'll reconsider all this SLG 3000 business. Seems as though it isn't worth it now. I was just going to try it out as I heard it was superior to meister mode.

HydrogLox · Post by **HydrogLox** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:53 pm

Fudoh wrote:But if you desperately want to (in order to make the 480p scanlines look better), you need a HDMI to VGA converter, not just a cable. Mini > HDFury > SLG3000

Pointlessness notwithstanding - what about [VGA 480p > SLG3000 > UMSA > Mini] ?

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:51 pm

Well thanks for the help! I guess I'll reconsider all this SLG 3000 business. Seems as though it isn't worth it now. I was just going to try it out as I heard it was superior to meister mode.

you got that from a pointless youtube video - the guy is wrong. The Mini on itself in 720p will look *better*.

Pointlessness notwithstanding - what about [VGA 480p > SLG3000 > UMSA > Mini] ?

and the point of that ? It would only work if you set the Mini to video scaling (instead of game scaling). Not worth it.

HydrogLox · Post by **HydrogLox** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:32 pm

Fudoh wrote:
Pointlessness notwithstanding - what about [VGA 480p > SLG3000 > UMSA > Mini] ?
and the point of that ? It would only work if you set the Mini to video scaling (instead of game scaling). Not worth it.

I wondered what would happen if you set the mini to output 1080p (i.e. no mini scan line support): [VGA 480p > SLG3000 > UMSA > Mini(1080p) > 1080p Display]. On a 1080p display the 720p signal (with mini scan lines) is still scaled by the display's own scaler which could deteriorate the visuals. But I guess "480p with SLG3000" scaled by the mini to 1080p would look just as "bad" - possibly worse.

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:59 pm

The next firmware will most likely fix 1080p scanlines on the mini which would render that complicated setup obsolete.

The way I understand it the purpose of the mini is not so much quality scaling as it is virtually lag free access to RGB quality video from vintage hardware. I doubt there is much difference in quality between letting the mini scale to 720p and then letting your display scale from that to its native res and just letting the mini scale to 1080p. Or even letting your display scale from 480p to its native res.

At least that is what I saw with my display and mini.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:04 pm

But I guess "480p with SLG3000" scaled by the mini to 1080p would look just as "bad" - possibly worse.

don't you have any game with built-in scanline support ? Raiden Fighers Aces ? Any Sega Ages title on the PS2 ? Give it a try. You have to set the V_SCALER to 5. Results are pretty nice.

The next firmware will most likely fix 1080p scanlines on the mini which would render that complicated setup obsolete.

that's about the most complicated thing to fix. They have to change the processing chain to scanline overlay first and scaling after that. Also you can't use V_SCALER 6 or 7 anymore - and that's what many people use.

I doubt there is much difference in quality between letting the mini scale to 720p and then letting your display scale from that to its native res and just letting the mini scale to 1080p.

huge difference! Micomsoft gave the user too much access to the scaling options and most people don't know how to use them. Also heavily depends on the display. 720p to 1080p is not trivial.

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:14 pm

I remember when I first got my mini I tried to see if I could at casual glance detect a quality difference between letting the mini output 480p, 720p and 1080p. I even threw in comparisons with the multiple scaling mode like 2x.

I couldn't casually see any difference.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:19 pm

Then you did something wrong. 480p from the Mini looks very blurry. Even blurrier than - let's say - a 12 year old Faroudja based linedoubler and considerably worse than a XRGB-3's 480p output. 1080p looks like emulation. 720p is sharper than other linedoublers, but noticably less sharp than 1080p. 720p with scanlines is a nodge ahead of what a XRGB-3 combined with another scaler (Edge) can do.

But I think you've by now established that you dislike the Mini and prefer CRTs and that's ok, but don't rant about it on every occassion.

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:27 pm

Whose ranting? Visual quality is a very subjective thing. I am just trying to understand the technology and other's perspective. My own perspective is always less empirical and more casual.

I find the 480p blurriness to be surprising though, since it seems to me that line doubling should be the easiest thing to get right.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:35 pm

Whose ranting? Visual quality is a very subjective thing.

to certain point, of course. But to say that you cannot see a difference between 480p and 1080p from the Mini, is plain wrong and it's so misleading for any potential buyers or other users. Do you still have your mini ? I would urge you to retry it.

I find the 480p blurriness to be surprising though, since it seems to me that line doubling should be the easiest thing to get right.

it is, and the my guess is that the FPGA's initial 480p output is breathtakingly good. Unfortunately the QDEO (the chip which does the scaling) blurs the picture after that, even with just passing through 480p from the FPGA.

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:02 pm

Fudoh wrote:to certain point, of course. But to say that you cannot see a difference between 480p and 1080p from the Mini, is plain wrong and it's so misleading for any potential buyers or other users. Do you still have your mini ? I would urge you to retry it.

I still have it. I'll give it another look once I get home.

For the record I am not at all thorough when evaluating such things. That is why I said casual glance. I do such test for my own benefit so unless the difference jumps out at me I won't notice it.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:35 pm

I understand, but we're really talking a HUGE difference. Like "completely and utterly useless compared to my CRT" versus "gosh, I love it, let me trash all my CRTs".

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:39 pm

Indeed, I'll definitely have to verify this then.

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:50 pm

I just tested. I guess we are just built different Fudoh because I dont see what you see.

720p out seems to have more vibrant colours, but I am sure adjusting the colour controls will remedy that. Scanline settings work different also which is an annoyance.

The problem is that the mini takes 7-10 seconds to change between resolutions and in that time I forget the finer details of what the other resolution looked like.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:15 pm

you're kidding, right ? 1080p has razor sharp pixels, while 480p is a mess with no pixel definition whatsoever.

If you don't see that, you could buy any $35 linedoubler and be happy with it.

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:45 pm

Didnt test 1080p actually, just flipped between 720p and 480p for a few minutes.

Maybe it is my display or my settings or a million other factors. Let us let it lie at that, I prefer my PVM in any case.

Fudoh · Post by **Fudoh** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:16 pm

next time I have my mini running I'll take some snapshots - easy to do and probably easy to see the difference there as well.

Why do keep your mini around ?

kamiboy · Post by **kamiboy** » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:28 pm

I try never to sell gaming hardware or cables. Dont need the money and one never knows, it might suddenly be needed in the future. For now it just collects dust though.

I only have an older gen iPhone otherwise I'd post some pics as well. When I tried they didnt come out very useful.

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Integrating the SLG 3000 with Framemeister

Integrating the SLG 3000 with Framemeister

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