Mushihimesama Futari Ultra Mode - you f**kin serious?

[exidy]

I tried playing this for a minute and got my ass whooped. I cant imagine anyone doing well..

Jon

[Special World]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZeRl3NXsUQ

I can imagine somebody ELSE doing well. These games have the craziest difficulty curves, because there's always somebody out there who can do it.

[trap15]

[n0rtygames]

*chuckle*

Have you been keeping up with STG Weekly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZeRl3NXsUQ

Not only has someone done well on it, they've counter stopped it.

JUST DO IT.




edit: I see special world has posted this. Now I just look like an idiot.. well, more than usual.

[Jeneki]

Protip straight from the pros: Make Reco your waifu.

[KAI]

just one word: PINKSWEETSISHARDER

[matrigs]

you obviously don't go all the way.

full shmup or no shmup.

[casualcoder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZeRl3NXsUQ

I can imagine somebody ELSE doing well. These games have the craziest difficulty curves, because there's always somebody out there who can do it.

Am I the only one that doesn't think this looks all that hard? I mean a lot of those patterns are very dodgeable and the amount of slowdown is actually too slow in many areas. I'm quite sure I've seen far worse in other modes/games.

[Giest118]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZeRl3NXsUQ

I can imagine somebody ELSE doing well. These games have the craziest difficulty curves, because there's always somebody out there who can do it.

Am I the only one that doesn't think this looks all that hard? I mean a lot of those patterns are very dodgeable and the amount of slowdown is actually too slow in many areas. I'm quite sure I've seen far worse in other modes/games.

This is the effect of watching a seasoned player play Ultra mode. He will make it look WAY easier than it actually is.

Play Ultra mode. I fucking dare you. :3

[shmuppyLove]

THIS ...

IS ...

ULTRAAAAAAAA!!!!

[DrTrouserPlank]

Needs more bullets

[Deca]

Am I the only one that doesn't think this looks all that hard? I mean a lot of those patterns are very dodgeable and the amount of slowdown is actually too slow in many areas. I'm quite sure I've seen far worse in other modes/games.

The game he's playing is a bit different from what you would experience. Through exhaustive practice and memorization you can control the game, giving you more manageable and predictable patterns to deal with. Ultra is no joke, but God is a little more approachable. Just go play for yourself a bit and you'll understand.

[casualcoder]

Am I the only one that doesn't think this looks all that hard? I mean a lot of those patterns are very dodgeable and the amount of slowdown is actually too slow in many areas. I'm quite sure I've seen far worse in other modes/games.

The game he's playing is a bit different from what you would experience. Through exhaustive practice and memorization you can control the game, giving you more manageable and predictable patterns to deal with. Ultra is no joke, but God is a little more approachable. Just go play for yourself a bit and you'll understand.

Yes, I totally agree. True pros always make it look easier. All I meant was I've seen games where control/memory/manipulation have less a role and rather pure dodging skills are more at play due to randomness. Deathsmiles MBL 999 comes to mind, and ddpdoj.

I took the challenge... and, yeah, definitely a lot harder than the superplay made it appear on first run. But, actually a lot of it seemed manageable with proper memorization and route planning.

The hardest part for me was the 1st stage actually (died over and over within the first 10 seconds). Once I got past that (boss battle was extremely quick) I found stage 2 kind of easy (boss was again surprisingly easy) and stage 3 a little less so. Didn't get to the stage 3 boss. I think stage 1 gave me more troubles because it didn't give me many of those bullet-break moments and clear the screen.

I want playing on my lagless monitor either, which is a bit of a pisser until I get it fixed, and I'm not used to having to bomb so that caught me off-guard. Bottom line is with a month or more of practice it seems to me that reasonably seasoned players should be able to get to the late part of the last level at the very least and the video shows that with proper planning and practice it can be made into a much easier experience.

I can't believe I never tried this mode before. It is really fun.

[Erppo]

Bottom line is with a month or more of practice it seems to me that reasonably seasoned players should be able to get to the late part of the last level at the very least and the video shows that with proper planning and practice it can be made into a much easier experience.

Wouldn't this apply to any shmup ever?

[casualcoder]

Bottom line is with a month or more of practice it seems to me that reasonably seasoned players should be able to get to the late part of the last level at the very least and the video shows that with proper planning and practice it can be made into a much easier experience.

Wouldn't this apply to any shmup ever?

Possibly. I don't know. How can I make that statement for all cases for all times? Actually I'm pretty sure there is a nearly impossible shmup (read: poorly programmed) that exists somewhere.

[Squire Grooktook]

I think even if a game is more slanted towards randomness then static memorization, a month or two with a seasoned veteran is plenty of time to build the skills needed to get through, optimize your strategies, and find just the right amount of luck to scrape through. So yeah I think that's a fairly accurate statement for most shooters.

[casualcoder]

I'm thinking of a DDR mode that I saw once which was just a curtain of arrows coming down. I could be wrong but it really did look impossible. Possibly even a programmers joke. And when I was taking programming courses years ago everyone seemed to like to make games that really were impossible (like snake where you eventually run out of room and have of eat yourself which is game over.) I chalk this up to poor programming. Any game that has even a sliver of possiblity of continuing infinitely or getting to the very end by definition is beatable.

[Deca]

I'm thinking of a DDR mode that I saw once which was just a curtain of arrows coming down. I could be wrong but it really did look impossible.

Nothing is impossible if you BELIEVE

[Hagane]

All I meant was I've seen games where control/memory/manipulation have less a role and rather pure dodging skills are more at play due to randomness. Deathsmiles MBL 999 comes to mind, and ddpdoj.

In every hard STG, pattern control/memorization/manipulation is very important and pure dodging skills/reactions very secondary. That includes stuff like DOJ of course.

[Eaglet]

Yeah lol.
High level DOJ is all about route-memorization.

[hail good sir]

dough

[casualcoder]

I'm thinking of a DDR mode that I saw once which was just a curtain of arrows coming down. I could be wrong but it really did look impossible.

Nothing is impossible if you BELIEVE

Yeah. Serves me right. Remind me never to make bets now that the Internet exists.

[Squire Grooktook]

All I meant was I've seen games where control/memory/manipulation have less a role and rather pure dodging skills are more at play due to randomness. Deathsmiles MBL 999 comes to mind, and ddpdoj.

In every hard STG, pattern control/memorization/manipulation is very important and pure dodging skills/reactions very secondary. That includes stuff like DOJ of course.

The way I think of it is, dodging skills can be improved, but an optimized route cannot. Once you find the best way to overcome a challenge, you need to be able to build your skills to the point where you can consistently execute that plan.

In a hard game, every little thing you can do to improve helps. If memorization boosts the chances of survival from 1% to 2%, then that's the double the victories. If improved dodging skills bring it up to 3%, that's triple the original number of victories.

[shaowebb]

*chuckle*

Have you been keeping up with STG Weekly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZeRl3NXsUQ

Not only has someone done well on it, they've counter stopped it.

JUST DO IT.




edit: I see special world has posted this. Now I just look like an idiot.. well, more than usual.

Yo... that...wow damn.

[DrTrouserPlank]

No-one is getting anywhere near the later levels of this on ultra in a couple of months. That's a massive misconception that is peddled by people who frequent forums like this and like to soak up the kudos for their runs.

You are looking at in excess of 6 months, and that's if you play this game like it's a job. 4-5 hours per day, utterly obsessive play to the point where it no fun whatsoever.

If you play it as a hobby it'll take much longer. A year, maybe more... if you ever manage it.

[casualcoder]

...errr, but I almost got to level 4 on about my 12th run on the first day of trying it. I'm basing my estimate on what I think players who are better than me (of which there are MANY) should be able to do. If my statement seeme like an oversimplification, I would say yours is absolute hyperbole. These games aren't so hard that you have to train like a 1-track minded zombie. As others have stated, memory and manipulation goes a long way and once youve patterned a route for yourself you just have to get over the common bumps in the road.

[Squire Grooktook]

And also some people have just built their skills better, and will learn and master patterns more quickly. Not everyone is going to take the same amount of time to complete the same challenge.

[To Far Away Times]

And also some people have just built their skills better, and will learn and master patterns more quickly. Not everyone is going to take the same amount of time to complete the same challenge.

One of the best skills you can have is learning how to learn.

[DrTrouserPlank]

In fairness one of the best skills you can have as a shmup player is knowing when the development team are having a laugh at your expense; namely when you are trying to clear a mode that is blatantly designed to be unreasonable and frustrating. It applies to the genre in general. Evidently some people manage to get that elusive clear irrespective of the mode.

I know it's not a popular opinion here, nor would it be amongst the Japanese who seem to have limitless patience in the face of being dicked-around, but shmups are designed to force the player to feed the machine coins. You can definitely decrease the rate at which the feeding has to occur, but no-one here can actually claim to have any credible bullet-hell shooter down so well that they can (with metronome-like consistency) clear it without having the occasional feed. The best estimates I've seen here are that "people" can clear something 70% of the time; and we are talking about the "easiest" mode. (not novice)

One has to ask that if the games' are so much about skill (and that the dreaded luck that I talk about is so inconsequential) then what accounts for that 30%?#

This probably belongs in the rant thread, but it seemed apt here; especially when talking about the unreasonable nature of Ultra.

[trap15]

I can agree that there are games/modes that were not actually designed to be reasonable or sane. i.e., Futari Ultra.

However, I still wouldn't put clearing them down to luck, there's still skill involved. Quite a fair bit.

Or if you're Gus, there's a lot of memorization.