Help with odd monitor / video card issue [SOLVED]

[casualcoder]

I last posted about my dying LCD monitor in this thread here

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 29#p883729

This one has me perplexed. I can choose every resolution, it's seems, other than the default res. I tried this on 2 computers (1 xp, 1 win7, both nvidia) and had the same issue. But, a third computer actually allowed me to run it at default res! The only difference with the 3rd computer is that it's video card has a powered line running to it from the psu. 

This just started happening out of the blue. So, I opened up the monitor and, sure enough 1 capacitor was bulging and 1 was actually leaking a little.

I have a couple of new caps on order, but has anyone heard of bad capacitors causing such a strange issue. I normally wouldn't worry so much about something like this but this is the only lag-free monitor in my home and without it I basically have no interest in playing my shmups

[Fudoh]

What do you mean you "couldn't" run the default res ? Only because the resolution isn't listed, doesn't mean you can't run it. Chances are that the EDID information chip got damaged and doesn't report the resolutions you want to see. But you can still FORCE any resolution you like and I would be surprised if the native res (or whatever you like) didn't work from every PC.

[gray117]

Obviously good to fix capacitors anyway, but I'd be surprised if the caps were the issue here.

The de-listing of native resolution [or indeed others that you wouldn't normally notice/care about] is a fairly common bug. Give it a google with your video card in question.

Most likely
i)
It can be video card driver related. Remove drivers, registry clean for the nvidia/ati drivers, restart, install desired driver version.
There are further registry/driver hacks to essentially allow you to set any res - again may depend upon card/drivers in question - or there are apps which can do this for you.

^Whilst the most common cause is the install of new drivers [and failure to properly/fully remove old ones], there do seem to also be many other possible windows causes for this 'just happening'.

ii)
It can be that the display is not being recognized properly - try booting with the display connected, re-identifying, or even [attempting to] update drivers for the display (even if new drivers are not found it can prompt the display to be properly id'd). Or - perversely - try telling it to treat as a default plug and play display.

[casualcoder]

Thanks for your help guys.

Fudoh: I did try forcing the resolution, but when I did that, the screen didn't just stretch to the edges, but rather the screen overscanned (moving mouse past the edge moves the screen) and displays just as distorted as at any of the other oddball settings.

Gray117: I did originally think it was a driver issue as you mentioned. So I went into a loop over removing and reinstalling drivers. Even trying removal tools for a clean install (which, to be honest, I'm not sure it worked because I always seem to have nvidia remnants on reboot). This is still a possibility but what are the chances that the 2 different computers video cards have the same driver issue occurring on the same day. By registry hacks and apps I believe you mean things like powerstrip. I tried that as well and it just produced garbage results.

I believe you are both onto something when you say that the monitor isn't reporting itself correctly to the PC either through damaged EDID or something else. The reason I believe this is because I noticed the driver manager used to report the monitor as (plug n play monitor) but now just says (default monitor). However, I had gotten the driver for the monitor and checked the .inf to ensure a default resolution is correctly reported. Installed it, and didnt make a difference at all.

Should also say I tried a different set of cables, running to the dvi port with an adapter. Nothing helps.

[kamiboy]

To rule out driver issues for good why not create a temporary partition and do a fresh OS install from scratch after a format.

Either that or get hold of one of those linux installations that boots directly from a CD/DVD or flash storage.

[Ed Oscuro]

Even trying removal tools for a clean install (which, to be honest, I'm not sure it worked because I always seem to have nvidia remnants on reboot).

Careful with getting panicky and just throwing lots of tools at the problem.

I think nVidia has a clean install option now, and so does AMD so I don't use it anymore, but I used to use Driver Sweeper. There is a version hosted at Guru3D, and the "original" (I GUESS) team went to Phyxion, and now that site redirects you to a for-pay program.

Anyway, when in doubt do a fresh install

[casualcoder]

To rule out driver issues for good why not create a temporary partition and do a fresh OS install from scratch after a format.

Either that or get hold of one of those linux installations that boots directly from a CD/DVD or flash storage.

Tried the linux live cd (ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon) but it had limited resolution choices and i'm not sure it would have supported 1440x900 on live cd anyway.

Next on list was to get a spare drive and install win7 on this computer.

[casualcoder]

Even trying removal tools for a clean install (which, to be honest, I'm not sure it worked because I always seem to have nvidia remnants on reboot).

Careful with getting panicky and just throwing lots of tools at the problem.

I think nVidia has a clean install option now, and so does AMD so I don't use it anymore, but I used to use Driver Sweeper. There is a version hosted at Guru3D, and the "original" (I GUESS) team went to Phyxion, and now that site redirects you to a for-pay program.

Anyway, when in doubt do a fresh install

Tried the "clean install" option with nvidia already, and it made no difference. I'll try Driver Sweeper... scratch that... just went to the site and that was the exact program I already tried. I can't vouch for it actually "sweeping" away all of the drivers because it seemed to come back on reboot.

[Ed Oscuro]

When you say "it comes back" did you have any certainty it's not the generic drivers? Of course, a clean install will just install the drivers cleanly - if something else is screwing over the resolution (DirectX possibly) it wouldn't affect that.

[casualcoder]

I'm not certain that it's not the generic drivers, but it appears that certain dll's that are supposed to be removed by the driver sweeper program are retained in the windows folder. And my nvidia manager icon appears on reboot and that should have been part of the uninstall/removal process and isn't just the generic driver.

Until my new caps come (and, I agree, I find it unlikely to fix this problem) i'll have to just try a different OS, and if that fails, a new card, and if that fails, install the new caps. IF all of that fails i'm supposing there is a chip malfunction somewhere on the monitor and I may as well move on with a replacement solution.

[Ed Oscuro]

I just realized you've got this running on multiple operating systems but you didn't say which one(s) you've been having the problem with. You are doing this backwards.

When in doubt, do a clean installation - and Windows 7's Computer Management console makes it easy to split a partition (first by shrinking it, creating a new partition, and then putting data to save in the new partition). I don't know why you're futzing with caps when you haven't sorted out the software. Always troubleshoot the software before hardware, because hardware can be broken.

[casualcoder]

Earlier on I mentioned that i had tried my monitor on 3 computers.

1st computer ran XP only (monitor resolution FAILED)
2nd computer ran XP and Win7 (monitor resolution FAILED on both)
3rd computer ran Win7 only (monitor resolution SUCCEEDED)

I have fussed about with software AND hardware so far. I am fully fussed out! Well, as you say, I can still try a clean install (can't partition, not enough space though) and failing that try another card.

As it stands there is no clear indication if its hardware or software. If a clean install produces the same results then i'm right back to considering it being the monitor or even the graphics card.

The caps may not be to blame but they are failing so for $3 it's worth the replacement.

[Ed Oscuro]

As it stands there is no clear indication if its hardware or software.

If it works on one computer, I don't see what you mean. It would be a strange coincidence that two computers' have the software messed up, but it's possible that you made the same change on both systems that'd break them. As it stands you haven't done enough to discount the mundane explanation, and I fear you're just going on a wild goose chase. But hey, it's your monitor and your time.

[casualcoder]

Well I very much appreciate your help but I'm not sure I went about this backwards. Installing a new OS is next in line in terms of what's easy for me to do and likely to resolve this. Failing that I would have to try a totally different video card. And of course, it could still be the monitor itself. I will keep you posted and if it turns out a fresh OS install fixes it it's a definately +1 for you and a 0 for me.

[Ed Oscuro]

Installing the OS over again won't void any warranty or break things...it's not difficult to do at all, just a bit of a chore if you don't have the latest SP in the installation media.

[gray117]

Nvidia cards right? ... Tried creating a custom resolution on them using standard drivers [probably more reliable than powerstrip]:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/custom_resolutions.html

I'd try that before mucking around with os's, updates and service packs...

... And yeah if the caps are faulty you can certainly replace them - seems odd that it'd be the issue right now given the relative success with 3rd comp, but you never know maybe there's something funky about the 3rd computer that 'works' with a setup which isn't performing as suspected - there's always an exception! ... And besides you don't want another problem later down the line... I still think it's not the most common or likely problem, but that doesn't mean it isn't your problem here


Otherwise perhaps the solution offered here takes the clean drivers issue, but with an extra step that may help:
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=184689

[Ed Oscuro]

What I find confusing is that the monitor works correctly with one PC, but not with two.

I would try a simple test to see if it really is capable of displaying the right resolution anymore:

If you have another monitor (hopefully with a different resolution) to test with:
1.) Disconnect the monitor from the PC with which it works.
(Also, check the plug and the computer's video socket for any broken pins - if there's a pin being left in one video socket that might account for a problem! The VGA plug isn't designed for being inserted and removed repeatedly.)
2.) Plug in another monitor, set the resolution to it.
3.) Reconnect the suspicious monitor.

The idea is to remove any memory of the current monitor from the PC with which it works. If it reidentifies correctly, then I think it's safe to rule out any problems with the EDID chip or indeed with all the parts of the monitor that allow it to report its resolution to the computer.

Anyway, there are lots of things which could be suggestive of the problem. XP and Windows 7, which are the OSes on the two PCs with the problem, are different enough that you'd not expect the exact same problem to manifest on both - but there it is. If the problem showed up after the same driver update, that's certainly suggestive. I would suggest thinking back to the pattern of updates on both PCs. Likewise, they might have the same programs, or combination of programs or entries, that cause some kind of obscure problem.

there's always an exception! ... And besides you don't want another problem later down the line...

Even with the computers that are having the trouble, the monitor sounds like it's actually performing perfectly - the only thing the monitor has to do in that process is report its native resolution and timing, but actually sending the right signal is up to the PC. I don't see any reason why we should neglect an orderly troubleshooting flow chart process in order to do the risky thing first.

[casualcoder]

Gray117: Yes, I had already tried powerstrip and setting a custom resolution. I answered previously how that didn't work

I tried the steps outlined in the thread you posted. I thought it had a reasonable chance of success because it certainly seemed that nvidia remnants were lingering even after uninstall. I also went into the windows directories and deleted anything that related to nvidia drivers and settings. Didn't work unfortunately.

So...

Ed: Finally did what you've been telling me and I just went ahead with a fresh formatted install of XP Pro on the 2nd computer (the one which had the same issue in xp and win7). It also did not solve the issue. I even went back and installed a driver package from feb 2012 which I know worked on my system.

The thing that is facinating is it seems the default resolution is just about the ONLY setting that is not shown in either the display settings or the nvidia control panel. It's like it is completely skipped over. you can start from (width) 640, all the way up to 2048 (or whatever it is) but there's a big gap between 1360 and 1600... all other resolutions are shown.

The only computer that DOES show 1440x900 is, again, the 3rd computer running win7. The only difference on that computer is that it has a powered graphics card (8800gs).

Very strange issue indeed, but now that I know it isn't software based and it is the monitor for sure, I'm brought right back to the faulty caps. I agree, faulty caps don't seem like they should cause this. But so far everything I've experienced points to a power issue.

Exhibit A) 2 faulty capacitors on the monitor's power board
Exhibit B) the only video card that can display at 1440x900 with this monitor, is one with a powered card (6-pin from power supply)
Exhibit C) this issue presented itself not after any sort of updates of software or hardware changes, but rather upon powering down my computer and then powering backup. Once in the past i had a failed capacitor on a graphics card (it went off like a cap gun) and the card continued to work after the explosion except after i turned off the computer and then turned it back on (obviously power was still being fed/stored up until the reboot).

I would still be pretty surprised if the caps are all that went wrong. I'm thinking its more likely that the bad caps caused damaged to one of the chips on the monitor PCB. Indeed, this is suggested further because my monitor is 'recognized' by windows as simply "generic monitor" or "analog display" rather than what i've been used to seeing "default plug n play monitor."

Next up is replacing the caps and if i have to replace the PCB, perhaps I will do that because it will likely be hard to find this monitor for a decent price.

[gray117]

Ah sorry probably read too fast; had it in my head that it was custom res using powerstrip only that had been tried. Well the mystery continues for now - where's that smilie bashing his head into a wall...

Besides fixing your problem, makes me wonder what is unique about that 3rd comps' setup/signal levels or whatever else it may be.

Well gl with it; it's a curious one!

[Ed Oscuro]

Hmm, keep us posted. Fingers crossed. If you've found faulty caps then it makes no sense not to replace 'em. I have some other ideas of thinks to check but I'll wait to see what happens next

No idea how having a powered video card (I take it you mean it draws 5+ or 12+V from external connector) would make a difference here, because the monitor should get power through its own power plug, except that VGA does have 5+V on a pin which might be giving power that the bad caps on the power supply are failing to send along...just a wild speculation on my part but it might work.

[casualcoder]

Well... Looks like I finally figured this out.

Fudoh, Ed: You guys were right. The EDID chip was damaged and that's why it wasn't reporting the monitor specs to the graphics card. How I figured this out:

I replaced the bad capacitors without issue (used 35v instead of 25v for better chance of survival going foward). However, unsurprisingly this did not fix the issue. So, I did some more research and it turns out that it is VERY common for bad caps to damage the EEPROM / EDID chip(s) when they go bad. Further evidence to support this was that the only resolution ranges available to me were the default (old school) VESA found here (scroll to where it says "Active area is actually an active area added with 6 overscan border pixels"...)

Basically, the computer didn't know what kind of monitor it was without the EDID sending information, and just assumed it was an oldschool VESA monitor.

So, I was right as well. The bad caps must have caused the chips to go bad as well. Next, I thought about what some of you insisted; a damaged EDID should only effect reporting and the resolution should be able to be forced by creating a custom resolution profile. I went back into my nvidia custom resolution settings and noticed that the "timing" section was not being filled out automatically so it was sending bad information. I mucked around and found that changing "timing" from "automatic" to "DMT" set the resolution correctly. And then, I reinstalled the monitor drivers and it looks like the custom resolution can now be switched to "automatic" with the correct settings and everything is stored so I don't have to keep switching the resolution back to the correct one.

Oh, and I got my VGA cable for the X360 in the mail yesterday and, thankfully, the X360 doesn't really care about EDID chips either and allows manual selection of 1440x900. So, with that, it looks like i'm back in business. Thank you all again for your help, especially Ed for keeping me in line

PS> It looks like a new PCB for this monitor can be bought on eBay for about $16 so I may end up doing that eventually to fix the EDID and add DV-I as an output option.

[Ed Oscuro]

Well, take some comfort, you were at least half right about the troubleshooting and figured it out in spite of my attempts at help Goodness forbid there be a "next time," but I'll keep this one in mind. Apparently it really isn't so uncommon as I had thought. I've always had unreasonably good luck with capacitors in aging devices anyway.

I wonder, though, was it only the actual (native) resolution that was unselectable? This still confuses me.