Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[kamiboy]

What about this one below, looks like it has nothing but an optional SDI. No none removeable RGB/YUV that I can see.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360539692770?ss ... 1438.l2649

[Fudoh]

Still think it was stripped of it's component board. All the catalogues I have on hand state that all the BVMs came with the component board as a pre-installed standard. Seems to be removeable on some sets after all

[kamiboy]

I believe they are removeable on the newer models from the 2000's because I've seen many units on ebay that only come with a single SDI board and nothing else.

[Fudoh]

Where's the A series fitting in ? The D models, which are still sold today (20" 4:2, 24 and 32" 16:9"), all have the component/RGB boards included.

[kamiboy]

According to official literature the A series is the successor of the D series.

But even on the regular F1's all the boards are removable and since mostly these units were used in SDI environments I think it was common practice to remove the analogue boards, even if they came with the unit, and swap in SDI boards.

[mesmer]

According to official literature the A series is the successor of the D series.

But even on the regular F1's all the boards are removable and since mostly these units were used in SDI environments I think it was common practice to remove the analogue boards, even if they came with the unit, and swap in SDI boards.

Yep, my A series didn't come with an rgb board.

Where's the A series fitting in ? The D models, which are still sold today (20" 4:2, 24 and 32" 16:9"), all have the component/RGB boards included.

Here is the brochure for the A series.

very nice! thanks for the pics. The monitor can hardly resolve the 1280 TVL of a 720p signal, so that's better than 1080i in every regard.

It is spec'd at 700 TVL for 16:9. 720p only needs 720 TVL (not 1280). Although more would be better of course.

[Fudoh]

I guess that the demand for analogue connections was already down when the A series was introduced. Bad for us.

It is spec'd at 700 TVL for 16:9. 720p only needs 720 TVL (not 1280). Although more would be better of course.

right, of course. But the TVL are spec'ed for the middle of the screen only, so with a 700 TVL rating you still hardly reach the 1280 lines over the full width of the tube. Anyway, 720p is the way to go!

[lettuce]

Is there any PVM or BVM models we should avoid for retro gaming?

I'd say for PVM models stay away from ones that are composite only, and for both better stick to the models made in the 2000's because unless you know a unit's work history you can pretty much count on it having many thousands of hours on it already.

For BVM's make sure they at least come with an input board for analoug RGB as most come with digital SDI boards which are useless for home consoles and securing the proper input board could end up costing you more than the TV.

Also certain BVM models do not have any picture controls and require a seperate controller unit to do that. If the controller is not included, yet again more hidden extra cost.

What about a PVM-20M4E or 20M2E series, are they a solid model for retro gaming?...not sure what year they were manufactured mind?

[kamiboy]

Yeah, from reports those medical models should do fine. They support RGB/YUV if I remember right. As a bonus I've seen plenty of NIB M models on ebay for a reasonable price.

[philexile]

As you can see there's horizontal colored line going through across the screen near the top of the screen. I can "make" it go away if I use the overscan button but then the image gets cut off. Is it possible to fix?

I had something similar issue with one of the first PVMs I bought years ago and your model looks very similar to the 20M2U. I found the solution on an AV message board from the early 2000s. See below:

To fix horizontal red, green and blue lines creeping into the top of the NTSC monitors:

1. Press the 'Menu' button

2. After the menu appears, press 'Enter' and 'Degauss' at the same time. If the screen is then degaussed, that means that you didn't hit them at the same time so try again.

A. Hopefully you just entered 'Service mode'. You should see a display resembling this:

OTHER >163 91
V. BLANKING <60>

B. The number 91 is the feature we are adjusting (in this case, vertical blanking).

C. The number 163 is the value that vertical blanking is currently set to.

3. Use the 'Menu' and 'Enter' buttons to scroll to #91 if you're not already there.

4. Use the + and - buttons to adjust the vertical blanking. As you move up or down, you should notice the problematic lines going away.

5. When you find the right setting, press 'Degauss' and the word 'Write' will appear on the screen.

6. Immediately press 'Degauss' again to save.

7. Turn the monitor off and then on again and you're ready to roll.

The posts went on in the thread. This was described as a "retrace" problem and is caused by failing capacitors. I have the entire thread saved and I'll PM it to you shortly. (Its no longer online that I can see)

When I got this monitor and fixed the problem, I got in touch with the guy who I bought it from on Craigslist and exchanged it. He was liquidating stock and literally had about 50 20M2Us for sale. Because of this, I have no idea how long the fix will last. I spoke with the guy who provided the info above in the first place and he said this would usually give the monitor another few years. He did say replacing the caps would be difficult and recommended getting an experienced tech.

Please post if this fixes your problem. Good luck!

[lettuce]

Yeah, from reports those medical models should do fine. They support RGB/YUV if I remember right. As a bonus I've seen plenty of NIB M models on ebay for a reasonable price.

brand new???, i havent seen any new ones on eBay UK. Ive seens a fair few Sony PVM-20L4 models but alot of them dont appear to have the adjustment control/boards included!

[kamiboy]

Well there is your problem. On anywhere but ebay.com there is slim pickings. Same as with everything else really.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-new-SONY- ... 43b92d35f7

[IronSteel]

Please post if this fixes your problem. Good luck!

Hey,

Thanks for that. I was able to hide the lines by lowering the V Blanking thing. I understand its just a temporary fix and going to need to change the capacitor for a proper fix. But for now I'm happy with it. Thanks again!

[philexile]

Great – glad to help! It may work for years. Remember, these monitors were used very, very heavily and, unless you're playing games 24/7, I'm guessing it is getting lighter treatment from you then a video editor.

Please post if this fixes your problem. Good luck!

Hey,

Thanks for that. I was able to hide the lines by lowering the V Blanking thing. I understand its just a temporary fix and going to need to change the capacitor for a proper fix. But for now I'm happy with it. Thanks again!

[panzeroceania]

Fudoh, what would you say would be the best 31khz 480p capable CRTs you've seen are?

[Fudoh]

As stated before, for 480p I prefer LCDs.

The best "normally prices" CRTs I've used for 480p and higher are the Mitsubishi Diamondtron tubes. The "better" the tube is, the more pronounced the scanlines on 480p images will be. I have no doubt that the BVM-D and BVM-A series are the best, but again I prefer LCD or Plasma.

[philexile]

The "better" the tube is, the more pronounced the scanlines on 480p images will be. I have no doubt that the BVM-D and BVM-A series are the best, but again I prefer LCD or Plasma.

Super Mario Galaxy, 480p – Sony BVM-D32E1WU

[panzeroceania]

is there a list somewhere of BVMs that support 31khz / 640 x 480 ? preferably 4:3

[Fudoh]

D14 and D20 - those are the only ones. A series was only available in 16:9.

[shadowman]

philexile, I take it you've received your BVM-D32E1WU? What are your impressions of it?

[lettuce]

Just managed to score a PVM-20M4E for £40 local collection. Will be my first PVM so am looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about

[fagin]

Just managed to score a PVM-20M4E for £40 local collection. Will be my first PVM so am looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about

So you were the ******* that outbid me then!!!!

[lettuce]

Just managed to score a PVM-20M4E for £40 local collection. Will be my first PVM so am looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about

So you were the ******* that outbid me then!!!!

No way!, I was wondering if it was a shmups member that placed a bid. What happened to not getting anymore CTR's??.....I'll trade ya ure BVM for it? . Seriously shawn why did u want this after owning a BVM?

I take it I need one of these cables,



and use a sync strike to retro scart console?

[kamiboy]

Would be useful for a discerning CRT connoisseur to do a proper hand on evaluation of the M series PVM's in comparison to a BVM. Would be even better if an L series evaluation could be made in addition.

[lettuce]

Would be useful for a discerning CRT connoisseur to do a proper hand on evaluation of the M series PVM's in comparison to a BVM. Would be even better if an L series evaluation could be made in addition.

I believe Fagin did a YT vid on a PVM 14M4E a few months back, bit hard comparing a 14" PVM against a 20" BVM though. You would have usually thought that a consumer CRT would have a much greater picture quality on a 14" screen when compared to a 20" screen, but that MIGHT not be the case with the PVM's due to 800 lines, or a least not such a massive gap in quality.

I'm guess that's maybe why Fagin want the 20" PVM to see if the picture was just as good as his 14".......PVM!?

[fagin]

Just managed to score a PVM-20M4E for £40 local collection. Will be my first PVM so am looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about

So you were the ******* that outbid me then!!!!

No way!, I was wondering if it was a shmups member that placed a bid. What happened to not getting anymore CTR's??.....I'll trade ya ure BVM for it? . Seriously shawn why did u want this after owning a BVM?

I take it I need one of these cables,



and use a sync strike to retro scart console?

You know me and CRT's.

With regards to trading this for the BVM...... I'll pass I think!

If I can get one cheap enough I would want either this or another BVM for completeness...... to go in vert mode staked on top of my current hori BVM.

You can use one of those cables and a sync strike should you wish... I did to begin with. I have since moved to a SCART to component transcoder after the sync strike as it gave me a better image strangely enough with the BVM. I don't remember getting any issues with the PVM, so you can utilise the sync strike only chain should you wish.

[fagin]

Would be useful for a discerning CRT connoisseur to do a proper hand on evaluation of the M series PVM's in comparison to a BVM. Would be even better if an L series evaluation could be made in addition.

Based on what I saw with the 14" model the 4ME series is perhaps at the top of the PVM tree. However to compare how good the BVM's are..... my 20" BVM has better picture than the 14" ME PVM. This quite clearly shows how good the calrity is on the BVM's, when you can compare against a 800 line screen that is 6"'s smaller and still retain (if not beat) the sharpness.

[kamiboy]

Interesting. What interests me the most though is how the L2 or L5 compare to a regular BVM and the D/A models.

I think the L series formed the canopy of the PVM series, would be fun to pit a native 15khz and multisync against their BVM counterparts.

[lettuce]

You can use one of those cables and a sync strike should you wish... I did to begin with. I have since moved to a SCART to component transcoder after the sync strike as it gave me a better image strangely enough with the BVM. I don't remember getting any issues with the PVM, so you can utilise the sync strike only chain should you wish.

Hmm the scart to component transcoder units are fairly expensive.....more than what I got the PVM for, so that's not really an option as this is supposed to be a cheap exercise. I'll give the VGA 2 bnc cable a go, what sort of display anomalies were you getting with the BVM...could it be due to the BVM having 900+ lines?

[fagin]

You can use one of those cables and a sync strike should you wish... I did to begin with. I have since moved to a SCART to component transcoder after the sync strike as it gave me a better image strangely enough with the BVM. I don't remember getting any issues with the PVM, so you can utilise the sync strike only chain should you wish.

Hmm the scart to component transcoder units are fairly expensive.....more than what I got the PVM for, so that's not really an option as this is supposed to be a cheap exercise. I'll give the VGA 2 bnc cable a go, what sort of display anomalies were you getting with the BVM...could be be due to the BVM having 900+ lines?

It won't be an issue with your PVM.... this was isolated to my BVM and I strongly suspect was down to (at the time) a lack of termination on the loop throughs. I have since bought terminators but never gone back to straight connection from the SS. Don't worry about it and stick with the sync strike and then DSUB to BNC.