Help me choose a japanese cab

[parodius]

I currently have a New Astro City cab, with the screen set vertically at the moment.
I like it a lot, but it lacks two things : 31Khz support for some Naomi gaming goodness, and an easily rotatable screen.
The 31 Khz support is my main concern, as the screen can be rotated anyway, but it needs two persons to do it.

So I'm in the market for a new sit-down cab to replace this one. I could keep two cabs if I don't find one that suits all my needs, but I'd prefer not to as my living room is not that big...

Here are the contenders :

Sega Blast City
15/24/31Khz monitor
Jamma connector
Comes with a 6 button Sega standard control panel (also compatible with Capcom Impress and Konami Windy)

Sega Net City
15/24/31Khz monitor
JVS connector
Comes with a 6 button Sega standard control panel (also compatible with Capcom Impress and Konami Windy)
Dreamcast compatible connectors for 3rd & 4th Naomi players ?

Taito Egret 3
15/24/31Khz flat monitor, easily rotatable
Jamma connector
Comes with a 6 button Taito standard control panel (also compatible with Sammy Atomiswave)

Sammy Atomiswave
Same as Egret 3, with a 5 button panel


Am I right up to this point ?


My thoughts :

Screen
Blast and Net have pretty much the same screen.
Egret 3 & Atomiswave have a big plus on this point because of their flatter screen, and that can be rotated by one person. I was always told that those two cabs were exactly the same, but I want to be sure the Atomiswave screen can be rotated the same way. Does any of you guys know more about this point ?

Jamma/JVS compatibility
Blast City JVS rewiring harnesses can be found easily on Yahoo! Japan, but I think I would also have to buy a new power supply with audio amp, or does the Blast usually already include one ?
If I keep the standard Jamma connector (or with an Egret/Atomiswave), and go with a Capcom/Sega JVS to Jamma adpter, can those pass-through 31Khz ?
For the Net City, Jamma to JVS adapters can easily be found in Japan.

Control panel
Well, the Sega cabs can use all those crazy compatible Naomi panels, and basically replacement standard ones can be found quite cheap.
Egret/Atomiswave use a different kind, I wonder why as nearly all the other recent japanese cabs were made compatible with the Sega ones.
Anyway, does anybody know where to find a picture of the Atomiswave 5 button layout, to know if a 6th button can fit in nicely ? Also, I've always seen single-player panels for this one, which would suck.

Cab design
The sega ones are Naomi marquee friendly. The colors on the Blast are just Ok. I like the Net City looks a lot.
Egret 3 colors are not very good, the Atomiswave on the other handis much nicer.
I know squat about space available/design inside the cabs (except for the Blast as I suppose it's exactly like the Atro), which is the best on that part ?


All 4 types of cabs I can have for nearly the same price, it's not a decisive point (well considering the Blast is older, that's a negative point).
Overall I'm leaning towards an Atomiswave (only with a 2 player panel) or Net City but I can't decide between the two.


Thanks for reading me, and for your input !

Cheers

[Ord]

The Egret 3 is a wonderful cab and it's the one I would go for.

[SAM]

All the acrade centers around here (I mean where I live) are using Sega Blast City, I think there must be some reasons.

[Valgar]

Apparently the Atomiswave Cabinet cannot be rotated easily. lol

Honestly though, if I ever had the choice, I would get two Blast City Cabinets instead.

[parodius]

Apparently the Atomiswave Cabinet cannot be rotated easily. lol

Do you have any links about the Atomiswave cab ?

All the acrade centers around here (I mean where I live) are using Sega Blast City, I think there must be some reasons.

Honestly though, if I ever had the choice, I would get two Blast City Cabinets instead.

Yeah but for the moment, I'm only looking for one cab
Why would you choose a Blast City rather than a Net City ?


Thanks.

[Valgar]

Because it is JAMMA and I like the look better.

No links for Atomiswave.

I am suprised you cannot get the Blast City for cheaper than the others.

[Dave_K.]

Rotating cabs: As stated Egret 3 is easiest as the monitor is mounted on a rotating base. But seriously, all the other cabs can be rotated by a single person in about 15 minutes (I do it all the time on my Astro and Windy cabs). The trick is to tip the cab into its back and get your body over the monitor then just lift straight up, pulling about halfway out, and rotate, then set back down on the mounts. Make sure you disconnect the RGB connector first.

Here are pics of the atomiswave panel. It does look a little differently shaped than the typical astro style panels.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/richardp1 ... 62&.src=ph

You did leave out the Windy2 in your list of 31khz capable cabs, but may be more difficult to find.

As for your question on the JVS->Jamma adapter: If the PCB your are playing does not fully support JVS, but is capable of outputting 31khz (like the Atomiswave mobo), then you use the adapter to hookup to the jamma like normal, but plug the cab's monitor directly into the Atomiswave VGA port (there is also a dip switch you set to tell the aw to output 31khz). The converter will not pass through 31khz.

[parodius]

Rotating cabs: As stated Egret 3 is easiest as the monitor is mounted on a rotating base. But seriously, all the other cabs can be rotated by a single person in about 15 minutes (I do it all the time on my Astro and Windy cabs). The trick is to tip the cab into its back and get your body over the monitor then just lift straight up, pulling about halfway out, and rotate, then set back down on the mounts. Make sure you disconnect the RGB connector first.

I didn't try this way, I always rotated the monitor while the cab was in normal position, thanks for the tip.

Here are pics of the atomiswave panel. It does look a little differently shaped than the typical astro style panels.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/richardp1 ... 62&.src=ph

Nice pics ! I have yet to see a 2 player control panel though.

You did leave out the Windy2 in your list of 31khz capable cabs, but may be more difficult to find.

Yeah I may have a hard time finding one.
What particular advantages does it have over the cabs above ?

As for your question on the JVS->Jamma adapter: If the PCB your are playing does not fully support JVS, but is capable of outputting 31khz (like the Atomiswave mobo), then you use the adapter to hookup to the jamma like normal, but plug the cab's monitor directly into the Atomiswave VGA port (there is also a dip switch you set to tell the aw to output 31khz). The converter will not pass through 31khz.

Ok, thanks. It didn't hit me that it's far easier to use the VGA plug directly.

[parodius]

Here's a very interesting thread regarding japanese, and more specifically Atomiswave cabs @ neo-geo.com :
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128194

[Valgar]

How much is a 29" 15-31khz monitor?

[Dave_K.]

How much is a 29" 15-31khz monitor?

The cheapest I've gotten a new one for was $400 for the Betson Imperial (they have a distributor about 45 minutes from me so no shipping charges). But I don't really recommend them as they have geometry issues at 15khz, and digital rotation control does not work even though its in the menu.

The Wells-Gardner D9200 is about $450-$500 which people seem to like better, but I've herd some production batches had problems and people had to exchange them. You can find reviews of both these monitors at retroblast.

http://retroblast.com/reviews/betson.html
http://retroblast.com/reviews/d9200-1.html

[Dave_K.]

You did leave out the Windy2 in your list of 31khz capable cabs, but may be more difficult to find.

Yeah I may have a hard time finding one.
What particular advantages does it have over the cabs above ?

No real advantage with the Windy2 other than the panel is standard astro shaped. Its a JVS cab, but mine came with a konami IO converter for jamma that seems to have more options (dip switches) than the sega/capcom one.

[zakk]

Be careful with the 27" 31khz monitors, you'll probably have to do some creative mounting of the monitor chassis to even get it in the cabinet. With my Egret it certainly wouldn't fit in the stock position; and I've yet to arrange it so I can easily rotate the monitor. Right now it involves having the rear of the cabinet open so I can watch and make sure no wires catch on the neckboard as it rotates (I actually broke a monitor doing this!). I think I can build some sort of a shelf to make this easier, but I haven't done it yet. The problem is the neckboard->deflection board and tube->deflection board wires are too short.

I did talk to a cabinet seller in Australia that sold egret and egret 2's with 15-38khz monitors in them. They told me they just do a chassis swap to
a WeiYa model. They use either the c3129 or the c2929.
Both chassis c3129 or a c2929 have the same data:

HL (mh) = 0.29 to 0.33 mh Inductance in milihenrios(mh)
HR (ohm) = 0.33 to 0.5 ohm Resistance in ohms
VL (mh) = 6.4 to 9 mh Inductance in milihenrios(mh)
VR (ohm) = 3.8 to 5.7 ohm Resistance in ohms

[oxtsu]

There's too much I would like to comment on, but here is a start.

-Sega Astro> control panel will fit on Egret-2/3 and Atomiswave, just there will be an a little space on the sides. Not ideal from an aesthetic point of view, but works. image-1

-Blast City has an audio amp inside the power supply case. image-2

-Atomiswave appears to be wired to both JVS and JAMMA from pics I have seen. image-3

-The screen is near flat on Blast and Net City (akin to a late model Trinitron tube-95%), where as the New Net City is 100% flat (like Wega tube).

Be careful with the 27" 31khz monitors, you'll probably have to do some creative mounting of the monitor chassis to even get it in the cabinet.

I would love to hear more details about the fitment and process needed to squeeze in the Betson or WG 27in monitor. I've been thinking of doing it myself and have a few ideas, but it is uncertain. Maybe you or Dave_K. could start a seperate thread for it sometime.

[Dave_K.]

Be careful with the 27" 31khz monitors, you'll probably have to do some creative mounting of the monitor chassis to even get it in the cabinet.

I would love to hear more details about the fitment and process needed to squeeze in the Betson or WG 27in monitor. I've been thinking of doing it myself and have a few ideas, but it is uncertain. Maybe you or Dave_K. could start a seperate thread for it sometime.

We can discuss in detail on a seperate thread if you'd like but in short zakk is correct, you can't use the Betson (or WG) frames on any of these japanese cabs as the mounting points won't line up. I ended up just re-using the monitor frame from my old one and re-mounted the new tube+pcb on that, and it worked.

[zakk]

Be careful with the 27" 31khz monitors, you'll probably have to do some creative mounting of the monitor chassis to even get it in the cabinet.

I would love to hear more details about the fitment and process needed to squeeze in the Betson or WG 27in monitor. I've been thinking of doing it myself and have a few ideas, but it is uncertain. Maybe you or Dave_K. could start a seperate thread for it sometime.

We can discuss in detail on a seperate thread if you'd like but in short zakk is correct, you can't use the Betson (or WG) frames on any of these japanese cabs as the mounting points won't line up. I ended up just re-using the monitor frame from my old one and re-mounted the new tube+pcb on that, and it worked.

I think it's a bit easier in things like the astro/windy/etc cabs, because you don't have to worry about the rotation mechanism; you can just reuse some of the existing monitor frame and you're fine. With the egret there is no 'frame', the tube is mounted to the rotating part, and the monitor PCB is attached some part internal to the cabinet. There's enough slack in the connecting cables (and they are arranged well) so there's no issue with the monitor rotating.

You can't use the WG frame because there's not an uobstructed path from the monitor mount points to the rear of the cabinet (the rotation piece is in the way, plus a bit of sheet metal). Even if you did some creative cutting, the frame is longer than the cabinet is deep. (might work if you left the back door off...). The WG pcb part is somewhat large and heavy too, which compounds the issues.

I'm about to do lots of rewiring/rearranging of my cabinet related stuff, I'm thinking about trying to fix this issue in my egret as I'd like rotating the monitor to be less annoying; I'll be sure to post if I come across a useable solution.

[parodius]

Thanks for the comments, keep them coming !

[P.H.U.]

I don't care much for the aesthetics of the Egret I, but the Egret III sounds like a great cab. What does it look like. Anyone got pics? And what is the going rate for this cab?

[japtor]

I don't care much for the aesthetics of the Egret I, but the Egret III sounds like a great cab. What does it look like. Anyone got pics? And what is the going rate for this cab?

i think its identical to the egret 2 design wise, different colors/graphics on it though. small pic here: http://www.arcaderick.de/machines/egret3.jpg

its relatively new, so i think the price is pretty up there. $1500+ at least i would guess, but its been a while, might be able to find a used one for less.

[Dave_K.]

I don't care much for the aesthetics of the Egret I, but the Egret III sounds like a great cab. What does it look like. Anyone got pics? And what is the going rate for this cab?

The Atomiswave cab is an OEM Egret 3 sans the rotating monitor frame. Its $1500 from or friendly Matsu.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/richardp1 ... 62&.src=ph

[P.H.U.]

Cool. I dig on the design of the AW. But one of the reasons that the Egret 3 is so appealing to me is the 'easy-rotate' monitor.

Anyone know who or where to get one?

[Dave_K.]

I bet Matsu can source one for you, but he may not be making another shippment until his current stock sells. But seriously, these cabs are not that difficult to rotate. At the next San Jose shmupmeet (last Saturday of this month), I'll have to rotate the Astro cab to take out 1944 and put in Ketsui after lunchtime, so you could see exactly how I do it by myself in 10 minutes (same way for Candy, Windy and Atomiswave).

[pixelcorps]

taito egret cab takes less than a minute to rotate. and that includes removing and rotating the plastic screen surround.

[parodius]

You're talking of the first Egret cabinet I suppose ?

[oxtsu]

*Edited my post above to include some pics*


Thanks Dave_K. and zakk for your thoughts on the Betson/WG swap. Here are my top concerns:

1) On the Windy there is not enough clearance on the sides for the basket frame of Betson/WG monitor. Two solutions: ditch the frame, and mount the chassis to the cabinet side (like factory). Problem...I think I will have to re-wire everything in order to place it there. Second, shave the plastic around the monitor area to gain clearance. Problem...extremely messy, may weaken structure.

2) http://members.cox.net/oxtsu/windy_monitorcheck02.jpg

Is this measurement of 34-35mm for the tube mounting point the same as Betson/WG tri-sync monitor? I'm only slightly concerned of having some gap between the bezel and tube because of differences.

[Dave_K.]

1) On the Windy there is not enough clearance on the sides for the basket frame of Betson/WG monitor. Two solutions: ditch the frame, and mount the chassis to the cabinet side (like factory). Problem...I think I will have to re-wire everything in order to place it there. Second, shave the plastic around the monitor area to gain clearance. Problem...extremely messy, may weaken structure.

2) http://members.cox.net/oxtsu/windy_monitorcheck02.jpg

Is this measurement of 34-35mm for the tube mounting point the same as Betson/WG tri-sync monitor? I'm only slightly concerned of having some gap between the bezel and tube because of differences.

For #1, yes I recommend ditching the betson/wg frame (as I don't think the holes will line up anyway) and using the windy mounting handles/frames. You may have to get creative for how to mount the monitor PCB on the shelf underneath. For #2, I'll measure my Betson tube tonight and let you know.

[Dave_K.]

Is this measurement of 34-35mm for the tube mounting point the same as Betson/WG tri-sync monitor?

With my crappy metric ruler, I'm seeing about the same on the Betson if I measure to the end corner of the tube (the tube's metal casing is slightly different than the Toshiba type tubes which is more sunken into its casing). Anyway, the bezel fits up against it snuggly on my Exceleena (which had a toshiba tube in it previously).

[oxtsu]

Thanks much for checking, Dave_K. Glad to hear it. :)

I am leaning towards the WG D9200 right now.

[zakk]

Thanks much for checking, Dave_K. Glad to hear it.

I am leaning towards the WG D9200 right now.

Might want to watch this thread for a bit, looks like a US reseller for Wei-Ya monitors has popped up.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=44810.0

[Dave_K.]

Thanks much for checking, Dave_K. Glad to hear it.

I am leaning towards the WG D9200 right now.

Might want to watch this thread for a bit, looks like a US reseller for Wei-Ya monitors has popped up.

http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.php?topic=44810.0

Interesting. The price definately looks good, but unfortunally those flat front tubes won't work with original Astro/Windy bezels. I wonder if you could replace the bezel with a Naomi Net City version (which is made for flat front tubes). That would be a cool project.

Oxtsu, the D9200 is a good choice, especially if you are looking to use 15khz mode often than VGA (my only regret with the Betson).