Pope Resigns

[Friendly]

Pretty funny, when you think about it, considering that being God's representative on earth is a gig for life. Didn't see that one coming. Will he get a pension now?
Or will he go back to his old job as emperor?


Has God commented yet?

PS.
The next pope should be a black woman.

[KAI]

The new Pope should have a Super Robot name as well.

[EmperorIng]

He's not the first to step down from the office, but the first in the last century or so to do so, so this is not some novel development. If anything, it gives the College of Cardinals more time to properly select a successor.

The Catholic Church couldn't have asked for a more able intellectual following John Paul II.

And here I stepped into this topic thinking there'd be a mention of Sony TVs or the PS4 or something.

[Friendly]

And here I stepped into this topic thinking there'd be a mention of Sony TVs or the PS4 or something.

Please don't be a Skykid. One forum stalker/troll with mental problems to piss on every post I make without the moderators ever stepping in is quite enough.

He's not the first to step down from the office, but the first in the last century or so to do so, so this is not some novel development.

The first one in nearly 600 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_resignation

[trap15]

We might be able to, but why would we? The majority of us either don't care for, or have no strong opinion on religious types. Besides, if you can't take a joke, why are you even alive?

EDIT: Lol, you took down your post.

[EmperorIng]

What can I say, Catholics are in it for the long-term.

[shmuppyLove]

Why am I hearing about this first from shumps forum?

[moh]

Why am I hearing about this first from shumps forum?

LITTLE GIRLS RIDING GIANT BEETLES IN ONE THREAD. POPE IN THE NEXT.

SHUMPS FARM.

[Mischief Maker]

The new Pope should have a Super Robot name as well.

Cornholtron: The Bender of the Innocents!

[stryc9]

He's not Gods representative on earth, that's for sure.

All the pomp and ceremony, worshiping idols etc., none of that is scriptural. That stuff is warned against in the Bible, in fact. Their main focus of worship is on the Virgin Mary, who, whilst blessed, hardly even gets a look in in scripture.

It is no coincidence he looks like Palpatine in my opinion.

[EmperorIng]

^Good to see complete misunderstanding of Catholicism is alive and well.

I guess that whole "I give you the keys of heaven" and "you are the rock upon which I build my Church" stuff was ol' J pullin' their legs.

Good on the "idols" bit too. I assume you mean saints. This too shows me that you don't really 'get' Catholicism, because there's a difference between seeking guidance through contemplation and praying to a block of stone.

EDIT:
He's stepping down on the 28th.

[stryc9]

No, I don't mean saints. I mean the 'blocks of stone' you refer to that it was warned devils hide behind.

Never heard the saying 'behind every idol is a demon'?

It is also said in scripture that there is no way to heaven but by the Son, ie. not thru worship of the Virgin, who in her current form is likely the Pagan fertility 'deity' Gaia anyway

[sscamaro2010]

he is the first pope to resign in 600 years. also the papal prophesies say that the next pope will be the last. very interesting to read. it predicted all 112 popes.

[Moniker]

Tut tut. A little tolerance and decorum would be classy. Rehashing the Reformation isn't likely to go anywhere useful either.


It is pretty shocking, though. I figure the resignation couldn't be in anticipation of personal scandal, since this would draw even more attention. Could be he's aiming to establish a modernizing precedent to win back disenchanted Catholics, of which there are quite a few in my family.

[mesh control]

RIP

[stryc9]

Tut tut. A little tolerance and decorum would be classy. Rehashing the Reformation isn't likely to go anywhere useful either.

I guess you're referring to what was written above. I thought we were being perfectly civilized. At least in regards to difference of opinion over scriptural teachings, we have no urge to strap explosives to our bodies and try to change things that way at least

And before we go any further, no, I'm not a Christian. Not if the definition of being a Christian is 'to be Christ Like'. I'm nothing of the sort, unfortunately. In fact a lot of the time I'm the exact opposite

[Mischief Maker]

Tut tut. A little tolerance and decorum would be classy.

Here's a fair and balanced report on the Catholic Church that should put the Pope's resignation in perspective.

[EmperorIng]

And before we go any further, no, I'm not a Christian. Not if the definition of being a Christian is 'to be Christ Like'.

That's not the definition, that's the goal.

Remember how Peter denied Jesus three times? Not exactly "Christ-like."

he is the first pope to resign in 600 years. also the papal prophesies say that the next pope will be the last. very interesting to read. it predicted all 112 popes.

Those were actually a medieval forgery to apparently stop some cardinal [allegedly] named Peter from becoming the pope back then.

No, I don't mean saints. I mean the 'blocks of stone' you refer to that it was warned devils hide behind.

Never heard the saying 'behind every idol is a demon'?

It is also said in scripture that there is no way to heaven but by the Son, ie. not thru worship of the Virgin, who in her current form is likely the Pagan fertility 'deity' Gaia anyway

Uh, I'm not sure which 'blocks of stone' you're referring to, since no Catholic Church in all of the churches out there does that. Have you ever been to a Mass?

Also, again, referring to Mary as a 'pagan fertility deity' once again bespeaks a lack of familiarity with Catholic worship. Again, there is a difference between praying to someone, and worshiping them. Think of it this way: If you can pray "for" someone, why can't you pray "to" them? Are we not a community of believers, both living and dead?

[Ed Oscuro]

the papal prophesies

well timed...

@ EmperorIng: Well stated.

[stryc9]

EmperorIng, when you say to be 'Christ like' is the goal, doesn't that insinuate that one must do works to achieve this, rather than it being a natural flow on effect from having the Holy Spirit indwell in you because you accepted the free gift of salvation made possible by what happened on the Cross? Just trying to see it from your perspective here

Again, there is a difference between praying to someone, and worshiping them. Think of it this way: If you can pray "for" someone, why can't you pray "to" them?

Not sure what you mean within the context of what we're talking about. When you pray "for" someone, aren't you asking on their behalf that God shows mercy on their situation? What good would praying "to" them do? After all aren't they just human?

[Moniker]

Again, there is a difference between praying to someone, and worshiping them. Think of it this way: If you can pray "for" someone, why can't you pray "to" them?

Not sure what you mean within the context of what we're talking about. When you pray "for" someone, aren't you asking on their behalf that God shows mercy on their situation? What good would praying "to" them do? After all aren't they just human?

It's been awhile since Catholic school, but I'll take a crack at this. My understanding is it has to do with gradations of divinity. God the Father's goodness is nigh unfathomable due to its perfection and infinitude. Jesus gets us closer since he is fully human and lived among us, but he is also fully God, so his example is something to be striven for, but never attained. Mary is yet closer, but unlike the rest of us, she was also born without sin.

Saints are exemplars of your average sinner's attainment of a superlative congress with God. When a saint is prayed to, it is not in lieu of worship of the deity; it is more a plea for guidance that can perhaps be more easily understood and followed. It isn't interlocution, either: honoring a saint and trying to follow his/her example is one avenue of worshiping God.

This goes part of the way to explaining your first question. God's salvation is made freely available, but that does not mean it is always accepted. That acceptance is the life's work of the faithful. Prayer, contemplation, and good deeds are ways of marking one's path towards it.


I'm sure there's some minor to moderate heresy in the above, but it shouldn't be too far off.

[Lord Satori]

The new pope should be a chicken.

[stryc9]

^ Not sure about the saint thing with them being used as objects of contemplation, or worship, or anything else as I'm pretty sure as far as Scripture goes once you're dead it's either Heaven or Hell. I would have thought it unlikely that a beatified saint has any good advice to offer since the eternal spirit that once inhabited their flesh is long gone.

As far as the Virgin Mary being born without sin, I was under the impression that Christ was the only one born without sin, but I'm a little rusty at the moment so I could be wrong. You mean to say like Christ she had no wicked thoughts or any such thing at all? Isn't that the reason Christ was needed in the first place, to act as go-between for humanity and God, so the prophesies could be fulfilled and a sinless 'man' could pay the penalty of mankind's collective sin, past and future?

And yeah, I'm of the opinion that good deeds (works) have no bearing on salvation. Scriptually speaking, that is not part of the criteria for being saved. That is not to say good deeds are pointless or anything, but they would come as a result of having God indwell in you and the desire to do his will. It would be too easy if you could truly get to Heaven by having a points account. I believe God ordered the first altar to be built at ground level (no steps to give the impression that effort thru repeated ritual gets you to Heaven), made of rocks not hewn by human hands (works)

There is a passage in Scripture that equates man's works, no matter how good, to used menstrual rags in the eyes of God when it comes to paying off sin. We being human and Him being the Infinite Creator, with an infinite sense of justice, I'm not surprised our works aren't good enough. Hence the need for Christ.

Ha ha I love talking about this stuff

[Skykid]

Please don't be a Skykid. One forum stalker/troll with mental problems to piss on every post I make without the moderators ever stepping in is quite enough.

This might sound unusual, but why do you assume the moderating team or other forum members should sympathise with you? It's funny you think EmperorIng's comments, or any similar, are influenced by me and not you.
You make your bed, you lie in it: your conduct is irritating. Hell, your username and avatar are pretty irritating, but they could be looked past if your contributions were more varied and earnest.

Besides, the moderators banned you from off-topic for a few weeks to get you to cool your heels, so they're listening.

OT:

It's been awhile since Catholic school, but I'll take a crack at this. My understanding is it has to do with gradations of divinity. God the Father's goodness is nigh unfathomable due to its perfection and infinitude. Jesus gets us closer since he is fully human and lived among us, but he is also fully God, so his example is something to be striven for, but never attained. Mary is yet closer, but unlike the rest of us, she was also born without sin.

Saints are exemplars of your average sinner's attainment of a superlative congress with God. When a saint is prayed to, it is not in lieu of worship of the deity; it is more a plea for guidance that can perhaps be more easily understood and followed. It isn't interlocution, either: honoring a saint and trying to follow his/her example is one avenue of worshiping God.

This goes part of the way to explaining your first question. God's salvation is made freely available, but that does not mean it is always accepted. That acceptance is the life's work of the faithful. Prayer, contemplation, and good deeds are ways of marking one's path towards it.

I think I understand what you're saying, but I'm a little confused since man is inherently born a sinner who has to spend his life repenting, so if we pray 'to' another human because of the Jesus human/deity connection, aren't we essentially praying to someone who is on a pilgrimage to God but still guilty of sin?

Sorry if I have this wrong, just the way it sounded.

[EmperorIng]

You forget that saints also led human lives often filled with hardship. That's a pretty good well of experience to draw upon. They became saints for what they did in their earthly lives. In Catholic doctrine, your humanity isn't stripped away once entering heaven - it's completed.

As for Virgin Mary, you have to remember that she was the only other person in history to be born without sin (aside from the old biblical stories of Adam and Eve). This too, plays a role in the prophecies. It was precisely because of her role as mother of Jesus that she alone was made a sinless human being - She was the new "Eve" in a sense, and Christ the new "Adam" - examples of humanity's holiness, obedience, and union with God as opposed to their original counterparts' weakness.

Further Recommended Reading

@Skykid:
With saints, we ask them for guidance and strength, as well as their prayers - they pray to God on our behalf as well.
Also: hey, I just assumed there was a punchline waiting for me!

[Skykid]

@Skykid:
With saints, we ask them for guidance and strength, as well as their prayers - they pray to God on our behalf as well.
Also: hey, I just assumed there was a punchline waiting for me!

And rightly so.

Re: Saints, yes, I see. Funny I never really thought of it from the POV of humans praying to humans instead of omnipotent entities, or how original sin isn't factored into said worship.

[stryc9]

And all this is connected to the Ten Commandments, which for a human being are obviously impossible to keep. That's not why they exist - they are there to show humanity it's iniquity before God, realize we fall short 100% of the time in His eyes, and therefore need to fall back on the plan God always had for us involving the payment of sin on the Cross.

No further payment is required, Christ cried 'It is done' whilst on the Cross, the spiritual transaction has been paid in full at the cost of God's only Son. So in light of that, works-based religions encouraging good deeds as part of the way thru Heaven's gates don't seem to fall nicely into place within this model. It just isn't logical in my opinion.

Not trying to stir the pot too hard, but this is how Scripture tells it. And the only way to test Scripture is with...more Scripture. Anything not present and correct is likely a human invention, or an idea cultivating mans word, not Gods.

[Ghegs]

Besides, the moderators banned you from off-topic for a few weeks to get you to cool your heels, so they're listening.

You also have two warnings to your name, so keep in mind you are being watched as well. Seeing as 90% of your posts are in Off Topic, it'd be interesting to see how you fare having no access to it.

And now, back to the regularly scheduled religious debate. GHEGS WATCHES FROM ABOVE.

[Skykid]

Besides, the moderators banned you from off-topic for a few weeks to get you to cool your heels, so they're listening.

Off Topic is the best part of the forum, why would you want to take away my access?

Much appreciate the unnecessary public expose, a little unusual perhaps, but not a problem. May I ask are warnings indefinite then? Because you sent them to me many months ago. The last one maybe even up to half a year?

One was for creating a pointless thread in shmups chat in response to TLB's egg threads (or something similar), and the other was for making a curt comment toward something Culian said. Is that right?

[O. Van Bruce]

Not this shit please. Please, don't turn this discussion into another atheist/reformist/counter-reformist and other -ist bullshit.


Everyone knew that Ratzinger was a transitional pope... the Curia knew from the beginning that he wouldn't last long (even so, he had a pretty long reign... nobody thought he would live that long) and they expected some kind of continuism after Johan Paul. We might get a true pope now that he's out of the office. Problem is that the conservatives have the upper hand after Jhon Paul and Benedict reign. There is a reformist faction in the church though... not everyone has forgoten Jhon XXIII work...

Let us pray that something good comes out of the next papal election... I'd really like that someone got there and reformed the mess that is the catholic church now.