What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
User avatar
Moniker
Posts: 2149
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 3:28 pm

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Moniker »

Serious Sam: Double D (PC- Mommy's Best Games)

Got this from some bundle or other but hadn't been able to play it till new laptop time. Pretty rad. It uses the basic Weapon of Choice framework and gives a remarkably similar feel to the 3D games (DD being a sidescroller). Dodging bullets is great, but, so far, rare. Hopefully more of that later in the game. Not sure what to make of gunstacking other than it's hilarious. Since ammo is rather plentiful, I've just been adding everything together, so I have a Dual Pistol-Dual Shotgun-Tommy Gun-Chainsaw. It seems to get the job done. :mrgreen:

I actually rather prefer it to Weapon of Choice, which is also a great game. It's much less floaty, and doesn't have that emergency slowdown that sort of bogs down the latter. Thinking on it, I would plunk down cash for a tweaked PC version of WoC, for sure.
The freaks are rising through the floor.
Recommended XBLIG shmups.
Top 20 Doujin Shmups of ALL TIME.
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ed Oscuro »

The opening of the North Shallows Tower mission on Deadly difficulty is a spike in difficulty compared to others - but if the no damage to tanks Feat is possible, then with very careful play it should be possible to get this one down. So far I haven't been worried about doing especially well because I was farming a bit of BP first.

On the plus side, the game just dumped a ton of new weapons in my lap; it will be painfully annoying to grind upgrades for all the useful ones, but I have already found the new one-shot sniper rifle very useful - rollers aren't a big deal now. I see what the guide meant when it said that there was a damage penalty to the two-shot rifles - the newest one might ameliorate that problem somewhat, though. Not sure what to take along; the mix of enemies calls for a shotgun, but assault rifles still have a good deal of utility as well as good reserves. Not much use if you're just shooting for repeated ODKs though.

The useless "cheats" keep rolling in - Level Hold in particular makes me hold my head in anguish: Aya's level is stuck at 1! Another cheat doesn't allow you to use any weapons other than the starting pistol. Why, goodness, why?! Who is supposed to like this shit?! If only they had ditched that crap and put up a nice tidy page of meta-feats like Vagrant Story.
User avatar
ChainsawGuitarSP
Posts: 937
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:25 am

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by ChainsawGuitarSP »

Back to Umihara Kawase (Shun). Right now I'm trying to clear the 2nd exit of field 49. Don't know why I'm having so much trouble with it, I know I've managed to do 1up swinging before since the first game had it. Probably need to grow back my thumb callus.
Innovations in Recreational Electronic Media
User avatar
Moniker
Posts: 2149
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 3:28 pm

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Moniker »

Beat Hotline Miami (PC). Most fun I've had in a good long while. Beat all the story missions, although I still have secrets to find and stuff to unlock. I almost never go for 100%ing, but I think I probaboly will for Hotline. Everyone should play this.
The freaks are rising through the floor.
Recommended XBLIG shmups.
Top 20 Doujin Shmups of ALL TIME.
User avatar
Mischief Maker
Posts: 4803
Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 3:44 am

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Mischief Maker »

Moniker wrote:Beat Hotline Miami (PC). Most fun I've had in a good long while. Beat all the story missions, although I still have secrets to find and stuff to unlock. I almost never go for 100%ing, but I think I probaboly will for Hotline. Everyone should play this.
Play for better stage scores, but don't bother going for the secret ending, it'll just spoil your fun.

Here's an explanation of why not. (Story spoilers)
Two working class dudes, one black one white, just baked a tray of ten cookies together.

An oligarch walks in and grabs nine cookies for himself.

Then he says to the white dude "Watch out for that black dude, he wants a piece of your cookie!"
User avatar
BareKnuckleRoo
Posts: 6651
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 am
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Spelunky (XBLA)

Messing around with this at a friend's. It freaks out if you try to use an arcade stick for some reason (you can't stop moving), oddly enough. Now I remember why I didn't buy it; the extra levels/enemies is nice, but they changed the underlying gameplay mechanics for a lot of things enough that it feels... sloppy. Bad. Very annoying to keep grabbing ledges and walls with the Climbing Gloves when I'm not pressing left/right...

Just died to the scepter. My own scepter. Shot fired out then instantly zoomed left and hit me at five times the speed. Uh, great, the coolest weapon originally is now the dumbest item in the game that's suicidal to use. Lame.
User avatar
BrianC
Posts: 9040
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:33 am
Location: MD

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BrianC »

BareknuckleRoo wrote:Spelunky (XBLA)

Messing around with this at a friend's. It freaks out if you try to use an arcade stick for some reason (you can't stop moving), oddly enough. Now I remember why I didn't buy it; the extra levels/enemies is nice, but they changed the underlying gameplay mechanics for a lot of things enough that it feels... sloppy. Bad. Very annoying to keep grabbing ledges and walls with the Climbing Gloves when I'm not pressing left/right...

Just died to the scepter. My own scepter. Shot fired out then instantly zoomed left and hit me at five times the speed. Uh, great, the coolest weapon originally is now the dumbest item in the game that's suicidal to use. Lame.
I thought the scepter thing was fixed in a patch? Been awhile since I have played, but I heard some of the bugs were fixed. I like the remake myself, but I haven't used the gloves or scepter yet. Not every thing is improved, but I found the controls to be better on XBLA.
User avatar
null1024
Posts: 3823
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: ʍoquıɐɹ ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo 'ǝɹǝɥʍǝɯos
Contact:

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by null1024 »

just got back from a trip to the arcade

Virtual On [Arcade].
Had a few matches as Viper II against my friend who plays Fei-Yen. Completely wrecked him until fate chose to put me in effing Bal-Bas-Bow's stage, which has all of 4 tiny pieces of cover, which meant that I got wrecked.

and 1 coin for continue means that it's economical to fight people, instead of needing 2 coins each time
The machine was set to first to 3.

Planet Harriers [Arcade].
so damn fun
My arm hurt like hell from dodging shit though, which proved a bit of an issue during the third stage.
And the first boss took me a while in single player, but in co-op, my buddy and I completely demolished it, only took 28 seconds.

KOF98 Ultimate Match [Arcade].
Had a few goes with another friend, since I'm not too practiced on playing with stick, I kept losing. Siiigh. Almost won each time, but I'd accidentally jump or something stupid.

there were a few other things played, but I can't remember them :lol:
Come check out my website, I guess. Random stuff I've worked on over the last two decades.
User avatar
elvis
Posts: 984
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by elvis »

Just finished Okami HD (finished it previously on Wii as well).

Putting some time back into Capcom fighting games again now. Modern and older.
User avatar
BareKnuckleRoo
Posts: 6651
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 4:01 am
Location: Southern Ontario

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

BrianC wrote:I thought the scepter thing was fixed in a patch? Been awhile since I have played, but I heard some of the bugs were fixed. I like the remake myself, but I haven't used the gloves or scepter yet. Not every thing is improved, but I found the controls to be better on XBLA.
I was playing the patched version. One of the major (and completely fucking idiotic) bugs that was in the original XBLA release was a bug involving ledgehanging and the game's much less pleasant physics. Specifically, if you were in a tight tunnel with a wall in front of you and a pit below while holding something, doing a ledge hang would cause the object to fly out of your hands and bash you in the head! This wasn't an issue in the PC version as ledgehanging would always cause you to drop the object gently, instead of throwing it forward when you ledgehang.

This was fixed in the recent XBLA patch at least, but it's still idiotic how noone noticed this in playtesting. And the scepter is still completely lame to use. There's also those Croc-Men who are a onehitkill if they are damaged by something and they happen to teleport directly onto you (basically, you die if the RNG screws you). They're incredibly irritating to deal with.
User avatar
Zaarock
Posts: 1881
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:18 pm
Location: Finland

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Zaarock »

Got the DLC weapons for Vanquish, starting to do pretty relaxed normal mode w/o random items speedrun attempts. First one was barely less than three hours, terrible :P Funny how the laser reflects off of Crystal Viper, these guns really should've come with the main game. Laser Cannon makes non-random playthroughs possible and fun
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ed Oscuro »

completely realistic expectations

HG101 needs somebody editing the articles for content and taking the auteurs through their deepest funks. Sometimes you get genius, sometimes you get complete nonsense - and sometimes you get otherwise very good and informative articles dragged down by a few simple errors or biases that could have easily been swatted in the early phases, like this one. It's probably impossible to get a cohesive editorial angle and of course those can be sorely mistaken, but this particular article's perspective is...eccentric. The author does make a few excellent points but too many of the arguments are questionable at best. This is, of course, because defending the original CD-i Zelda duo as "very good games" is an impossible task.

Facts:
The author suggests standing in place and killing spawning enemies repeatedly until they stop coming. Contra our dear author, this is not good game design; it helps suck away what little challenge the games have, replacing it with repetition. For flying enemies, the only kind you probably really need to use this strategy against (unless the stars align when you find a well-designed or at least straightforward level, you have good skills, and the controller wants to work with you instead of making Link shuffle-jump repeatedly), this isn't accurate enough: Flying enemies spawn erratically, only a few per portion of the game area. Neat hint but the author seems to have missed the point of what he's discovered. You will need to move back and forth a few times to make sure you've cleared all of an area's flying enemies before venturing further. I don't see the point of trying to use up 30+ slow snowballs (and probably taking hits anyway) just to get to the end of the red Daira cave unscathed.

Not mentioned are (somewhat rare, but notable) enemies that spawn out of thin air. The first time I really noticed this was at the first turn in the red DAAAIRAA cave, where a red DAAAIRAA jumps down from nowhere, usually immediately followed by another red DAAAIRAA. *ENTHUSIASTIC FISH MUTILATION* The game is pretty uneven in this respect - it remembers whether you've cleared out certain pesky enemies from an area (usually ranged weapon throwers) and doesn't refresh them until you leave the area, yet it also spawns enemies onscreen, and allows you to conduct a fair amount of ranged combat against unseen offscreen enemies. It's like a mashup of every retro console enemy behavior spawning quirk you've ever known.

Link's shield coverage is spotty at best, and whether you can block something is entirely up to elements beyond your control, like the direction of an enemy projectile and your position relative to the enemies. The surreal level designs often put you above or below enemies to start, and a few steps (or jumps) might move you in or out of harm's way, sometimes almost unpredictably. The backgrounds are the game's best highlight, but occasionally the placement of the actual spots for standing isn't obvious from looking - this usually happens when you come across a pile of boulders.

There is a helpful tip I can share that the lazy game reviewer probably never noticed because he didn't try playing the game aggressively: If you jump at the right time, you can usually pass by many melee enemies and flyers unscathed. Beware cramped areas where you can't jump, though (i.e., the top of the second bend in the red Daira cave) - and if you are using the tip against flying enemies you'd better have a plan to escape quickly or thin their numbers out somehow (a well-placed Bomb could do the trick, if bombs were easily placed and had a useful explosive pattern).

I like some of the puzzle-oriented ideas seen in the gameplay - I started playing the game without walkthroughs and after I had exhausted the obvious clues I was stumped until I realized that you need to do a little bit of drop collecting to beat some enemies. I just don't like the implementation much, which basically leads to more farming (and getting firestones requires farming snowballs first - bonus grinding!) So far I haven't found these items in any stores, but that might change eventually. Morshu's items are pretty much worthless except in specific circumstances (dark caves, and the rocks that seal them up, mainly) but I have made sure to stock up anyway.

I also like the animated cutscenes, and always have - yes, they look very much like a product of the place and era, and the emphasis on ham hands with big knuckles has me laughing often - as do the rather eccentric line readings. They aren't famous for nothing, so I wouldn't say they're bad - just very different. They help keep me going through the unspectacular gameplay. It adds a puzzle sometimes to figure out exactly what I had just heard, even though the audio quality is very clear.

Like the author, I'm pretty enamored with what AIM tried to do here - I'm just not especially happy with what they achieved. I'll eventually get to the sequel and see how closely it matches these observations (probably it has the exact same faults, quirks, and merits).

Also, my CDI has a stuck subpixel. Drat! Not noticable most of the time, at least.
User avatar
IceDay
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:52 pm

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by IceDay »

Metal Gear Solid 3:
Not quite finished but seems to be a great game but nevertheless the weakest one so far (played 1,2 and Peace Walker). Good graphics for a PS2 game.

osu!
Simply fantastic! Thank you for the recommendation, dannnnn :D
User avatar
null1024
Posts: 3823
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: ʍoquıɐɹ ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo 'ǝɹǝɥʍǝɯos
Contact:

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by null1024 »

Shinobi 3 [Genesis].

so good
Kept getting hit by shit I should remember how to dodge.

[edit]
Streets of Rage 2 [Genesis].

also so good
Seemed a bit easy, was coasting through till about stage 4.
Was playing on Normal difficulty.
Come check out my website, I guess. Random stuff I've worked on over the last two decades.
sjewkestheloon
Posts: 1329
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:12 pm
Location: Manchester

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by sjewkestheloon »

Traded some stuff I wasn't feeling in at the shop and picked up a few things which I have spent a few hours with today:

Final Fantasy 10 - Felt like replaying it and it was cheap. Certainly not my favourite JRPG but I found the original playthrough when it first came out quite relaxing. Looking forward to going through the post game this time.

Dragon Quest 6 DS - A game on my wanted list, the intro and presentation are brilliant.

IL2 Sturmovich - Great looking flight sim with a lot of options. The fact that you can pick a map, the number of enemies, and go to town really grabs me. The game seems seriously content rich too.

Just Cause 2 - Loved the first game when it came out and I have no idea why I have taken so long to get this. One of the first things that I did was attach an enemy to a helicopter. Classic.

Doom 3 BFG - I know it got bad press at the time but I really enjoyed my run of Doom 3 when it first came out. After having read a lot of bitching and moaning about the fact that this port of the game changed the gameplay by making the environments brighter and adding the ability to use the torch and gun at the same time, it became clear that the things that annoyed me seem to have been changed. Seems to run smoothly from playing the intro, and I look forward to doing a full run with the expansion and the 'lost levels'. In spite of my best intentions, however, I ended up booting Doom up instead and I am now most of the way through episode 2. I was worried about how the game would have aged but this game is seriously tight and fun. Just blasting demons and simple switch puzzles. Modern games fail all to often by having you clear out an area and then spend 20 minutes backtracking through empty areas solving annoying puzzles. Here the enemies are relentless and don't stop.

I also started playing Dragon Quest 9 so that I could get to the internet functionality and get the quests downloaded before I move house and lose internet in a few weeks.
Number of 1cc's : 5
Now playing: Gunbird
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ed Oscuro »

sjewkestheloon wrote:Modern games fail all to often by having you clear out an area and then spend 20 minutes backtracking through empty areas solving annoying puzzles.
A good description of DOOM III, except the backtracking doesn't even have the point of a puzzle - just retreating for health and armor. I suppose Nightmare "fixes" this but then you're dealing with the constant cheap shots in an even more annoying pattern.

I would skip DOOM III altogether and move on to a classic DOOM mod, like Batman DOOM 8)
User avatar
CDexWard
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:13 pm
Location: Germany

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by CDexWard »

Just finished Demon's Souls. I was a bit disappointed. There were quite a few levels I didn't like design-wise and the game designers made a number of bad choices (tendencies, non respawning crystal geckos who run away without returning... :| ). Looking forward to Dark Souls though. Judging from what a friend showed and told me the sequel does everything right the first one did wrong.
User avatar
Ruldra
Posts: 4222
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:27 am
Location: Brazil

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ruldra »

Yesterday I finished all remaining events in Bang Bang Racing. Nice little game, too bad it doesn't have online multiplayer.

I liked the "little cars racing" theme so now I'm wondering if I should get Motorstorm RC. Might download the demo again and see if I like it. Or maybe I should get back to Wipeout HD.
[Youtube | 1cc list | Steam]
mastermx wrote:
xorthen wrote:You guys are some hardcore MOFOs and masochists.
This is the biggest compliment you can give to people on this forum.
User avatar
null1024
Posts: 3823
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: ʍoquıɐɹ ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo 'ǝɹǝɥʍǝɯos
Contact:

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by null1024 »

Final Fantasy III [DS].

Just started. Graphics are cute. First hour was abnormally hard [because I was dumb], I'd try to enter the cave to fight the Djinn and get shitwrecked by skeletons who did more damage than I had HP. Then I realized that I should go buy some armor. :roll:

At that dragon mountain thing or whatever.

also damn game teasing you with an airship at the start ;-;
Come check out my website, I guess. Random stuff I've worked on over the last two decades.
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Finished a few more areas in Link: THE FACES OF EEEEVIL

Spearfish Falls was nasty but doable if you're OK just forcing your way through the first section and then accepting a death on the next screen so you can start a fresh life (with a shooting power sword). If I'd known the boss was such a pushover (just repeatedly shot with the power sword and blocked its few lame fireballs) I'd have beaten it straight away, instead of returning after. Got some items. You have to figure out what they do on your own, which isn't really a crippling sacrifice if you're not a child who needs Nintendo to hold your hand. It does speak a bit to the scant resources available though, and I'm also confused as to why some of these items were thought necessary. One of these was a Power Glove (from a witch who insists "I may be old and ugly, but I still know a few tricks"), which seems to be just an instant bomb blast that's rupee-fueled, except I haven't figured out its targeting yet. The Glove flashes the screen but it doesn't seem to hit some enemies that are above you. It does seem to wholly replace the bomb's boulder-blasting function. I was lucky and happened to have the item the witch wanted to make the power glove (did you know that gloves come from black cauldrons?), but that just means I missed another of the game's lovely cutscenes (where she asks me to fetch it). It's not very inventive fetch-questing, but at least it's not terribly onerous - the shortness of each area means that it doesn't take terribly long to go back and forth (although it seems like ages), and characters are pretty explicit about what they need to give you another key item or whatever.

Some of the areas are really interesting looking, but almost all are simply corridors to more areas, some of which have bosses or items. Some of them are begging to be expanded on (the design of the Harlequin Bazaar exterior, and the mysterious interiors, although in truth I was more interested in the forest area near the end of Spearfish Falls) but you just get one view and then must move on. The only things populating these areas, after you've plundered the one or two items you need, are annoying enemies you don't want to see again. The snowballs and firestones are collected from opening areas (of course), so many of the most interesting-looking areas are looking for a purpose. The ice areas tend to be the least interesting visually, but they're where you will probably spend a fair amount of time grinding. The shop in Goronia is another case of this - pretty nondescript area with some of the weaker music in the game but you will probably spend a fair amount of time there (but you shouldn't need many runs for grinding items unless you are seriously bad - quite possible given the range of controllers for this machine though, my first attempts with the trackball weren't pretty - and the game puts extra pressure on your "rubies" by making them do double duty powering items as well, so there's an incentive to stay out of the shop).

Still enjoying the crazy characters you meet in this game. All they do is give you items, but they still have some charming eccentricities about them (one of my favorites is the crazy astronomer / wizard with his theory of why space is cold).
User avatar
lilmanjs
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:36 am
Location: Lawrence, Kansas

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by lilmanjs »

L.A. Noire. Not sure if the suit I'm using, The Sharpshooter, is dlc or exclusive to the complete edition of the game. I'm having good fun and those radio programs are wacky.
User avatar
KAI
Posts: 4672
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:24 pm
Location: Joker Star Galaxy, Argentina
Contact:

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by KAI »

Zoids Infinity Fuzors, the PS2 port of Taito's arcade game Zoids Infinity.
Pretty entertaining for a Virtual-ON copy, hope to play some VS matches with my friends tomorrow.
Image
User avatar
null1024
Posts: 3823
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:52 pm
Location: ʍoquıɐɹ ǝɥʇ ɹǝʌo 'ǝɹǝɥʍǝɯos
Contact:

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by null1024 »

Star Fox 2 [SNES].

Normal is... pathetically easy.
Hard is... actually pretty hard. Lots more missiles, you actually should retreat from a mission to go deal with them than keep doing a mission sometimes.
Expert is... expert.

why didn't this get released
It's really good.

Also, the difficulties need renaming, to easy/normal/hard.


Star Fox [SNES].

framerate
so slow
And I'm using zsnes [yeah....], which supposedly is emulating the faster SuperFX2 for all SuperFX games, so it should't be this bad... blah.
Especially right after coming off of playing Star Fox 2, which has more detail and everything, with a fairly consistent 8-20fps. Not this 5-15 shit. Mightn't sound like much of a difference, but at these low framerates, as little as 2fps more makes all the difference.

unless zsnes is actually being accurate for once and using SuperFX1 speed emulation, bleh
Come check out my website, I guess. Random stuff I've worked on over the last two decades.
User avatar
Moniker
Posts: 2149
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 3:28 pm

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Moniker »

null1024 wrote:Final Fantasy III [DS].
Despite repeated attempts, I never got far on this one (I'm not even sure I got past dragon mountain). It's identified as classic old school jrpg, but I dunno.. the formula just didn't work for me, as much as I love job systems. I think the entire game is built upon the player using exploits.. or exploits masquerading as core mechanics.. which is a bad sign.
The freaks are rising through the floor.
Recommended XBLIG shmups.
Top 20 Doujin Shmups of ALL TIME.
User avatar
trap15
Posts: 7835
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:13 am
Location: 東京都杉並区
Contact:

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by trap15 »

FF3 DS was one of the best JRPG experiences I've had.

I think the job system works fantastically, makes it all fun and you get to try tons of different combos, like leveling up X times as job Y, then switch to job Z and level up W times, etc.

Good times :)
@trap0xf | daifukkat.su/blog | scores | FIRE LANCER
<S.Yagawa> I like the challenge of "doing the impossible" with older hardware, and pushing it as far as it can go.
User avatar
CMoon
Posts: 6207
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:28 pm

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by CMoon »

CDexWard wrote:Just finished Demon's Souls. I was a bit disappointed. There were quite a few levels I didn't like design-wise and the game designers made a number of bad choices (tendencies, non respawning crystal geckos who run away without returning... :| ). Looking forward to Dark Souls though. Judging from what a friend showed and told me the sequel does everything right the first one did wrong.
For me, Demon's Souls was a game I came back to after wrecking Dark Souls. In time you reconsider your thoughts on level design--parts that felt annoying to me (like 3-1 and 5-2) now feel quite clever, but there's also a lot of ways to get around some of the worst areas. Knowledge reigns supreme as usual--my last playthrough felt like a complete cakewalk. Worst parts are some of the stingy ore drops (fuckin' pure bladestone!!!!) and how world tendency doesn't really offer that much. Wish it was more significant and that playing online didn't spoil your world tendency.

Anyway, I'm back to playing Etrian Odyssey 1 in preparation for 4 (which I won't be able to play until I actually buy a 3ds--Fall!??) Right now EO feels like the right pace for me, although 1 doesn't have a suspend option, which is too bad.
Randorama wrote:ban CMoon for being a closet Jerry Falwell cockmonster/Ann Coulter fan, Nijska a bronie (ack! The horror!), and Ed Oscuro being unable to post 100-word arguments without writing 3-pages posts.
Eugenics: you know it's right!
SHMUP sale page.
User avatar
ncc
Posts: 54
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:08 am

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by ncc »

I played Dark Souls for all of 20 minutes before I managed to break it. I killed every friendly NPC in the first non-tutorial area. The two most memorable events were when I found out that I could long jump across a gap at the top of a staircase to land on a tiny, supposedly inaccessible, decorative ledge on the side of a building to escape enemies (or angry friendlies in my case), and when the paladin/knight fellow stunlocked himself into a corner by repeatedly combat rolling against the wall after following me off a ledge into a small area that was also probably supposed to be inaccessible.
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Me and myself: "Me, I'm going to beat Militron without looking up any gameplay spoilers, aren't I?" "Of course you are, myself."
In candid moments I was expecting the solution to this fight to be based on a puzzle. It would likely be blindingly simple but completely unpredictable. I just didn't expect the game to register damage differently based on hit location, especially when the enemies are all more or less Link-sized. I'd already exhausted all the obvious puzzle areas and had more than enough power to take him down - it just wasn't happening. So I kept on going back to his arena. I has already tried throwing bombs or using the Power Glove for a while (firestones and snowballs weren't doing damage - the game is great about honestly registering hits or blocks from these items in an obvious way, with a bluish ricochet / ding when something is blocked by armor or a shield - but the Power Glove and Bomb can't be interpreted like this) and I was expecting that it was either merely a long, drawn-out fight - or some kind of unobvious puzzle. Making things worse - sometimes bombs bounce off his armor, sometimes they detonate instantly (particularly when thrown at his back), and sometimes bombs on the ground makes him double back the way he came. Of course, bombs are also the most time-consuming items to obtain because three of the damn things cost 20 Rubies each.

Turns out bombs have nothing to do with beating him at all.

I decided to check out some random Zelda wiki page to see what it had to say. Aside from the usual "lol here is information about his FMV appearances also this game is bad" stuff, somebody thoughtfully mentioned that his weak spot was his head.

Five jumping power shots later and he flies out of his armor.

Image
User avatar
BIL
Posts: 20287
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:39 pm
Location: COLONY

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by BIL »

Baaaa hahaha. HG101 is the best old games website ever. "What games are in this series?" (HG101 provides info) "How do they play?" (HG101 provides hilarity)
HG101 no Densetsu wrote:Flying Enemies
Annoying at first, dispatch all of them before continuing with a stage, or acquire either acquire a loaf of bread or magic bell in order to stop them.
loaf of bread
So hard to say away from those carbs...

Their Wild Guns article is actually really, really good, but like a surprising number of other web commentaries on the game it thinks you build super meter by killing enemies (instead of shooting down their bullets).
User avatar
Ed Oscuro
Posts: 18654
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:13 pm
Location: uoıʇɐɹnƃıɟuoɔ ɯǝʇsʎs

Re: What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

Post by Ed Oscuro »

Okay, maybe I have an opening to talk about something that's been bothering me for a while.

That reviewer is so innocent and trusting it's just heartbreaking.

The CD-i (recap: famed, beloved home to HERE'S...THE-MAP: THE-GAME, and the "I wonder what Ganon's up to?" improv series hosted by Drew Carey, starring Ryan Stiles and Colin Mochrie) includes as core specifications:
- a OS-9 real-time OS-derived CD-ROM system frontend (and possibly some other internals as well), written in nothing higher-language than C and probably mostly in assembly, which may run entirely out of ROM (aside from a few variables in RAM)
- a 68000 derivative manufactured by Philips, clocked at close to 16MHz. However it lacks a full-featured MMU which may be a real problem in a game like Zelda (as an aside, I like how they name the games after the character you play as, so you really do play as Zelda in Zelda. Philips really paid attention to those focus tests.)
- 1 MB of RAM!
- "Resolution: 384×280 to 768×560"
- on the negative side some nitwits at Sony (I think) managed to fuck up implementation of stereo sound on a certain hardware unit, and some kind of (probably speed-detrimental) fix was required for game code going forward

Sounds a lot like an X68000 (resolutions: 256 x 240 to 1024 x 1024), doesn't it? Even the X68000's software is partially OS-9 derived.

So back to HG101:
If you look at the scrolling in Link or Zelda you'll see that you can only scroll about 2 or 2.5 screens horizontally. This was dictated by the video memory available. [Ed note: That's fine - remember that the backgrounds are all essentially paintings with no tiles. There are sizable animated elements too, which only rarely use color-shifting. This is pretty different from most any X68000 game, but if the CD-i games had used a more traditional tiled format, it seems they should have had far fewer problems than they did.]

Mr DeSharone went on to explain at length all the technical problems with the system, from an inability to properly stream audio, the poorly interfaced infra-red controller, slow 68000 processor, problems with saving and so on. It's a miracle what developers managed to squeeze out of the CDi, and even then AIM (American Interactive Media, Philips' CDi software publishing arm) didn't want games.
Now, I'm sure the lack of an ordinary MMU and some other tasks laid on the Philips 68070 (by contrast, chips in the X68000 were well utilized for multiple functions beyond their original designs) would have hampered the CD-i. And I surely expect that the large, often highly animated backgrounds would soak up most of the system's RAM quickly.

But this doesn't come close to explaining some of the problems with the game. Frankly it seems like the author wasn't interested in defending his own premise, because he had The Word of God. It is nice how some of the issues DeSharone mentions were apparently solved, of course. Infrared controllers: use a wired controller or built-in controls, idiots; the main drawback here was that the games are limited to the usual two-button controller, which means the relatively nice Gravis-derived four-button-pad is not properly utilized - and you'd think that DeSharone and company would have been able to enable an expanded controller configuration option in a menu somewhere, so unless the Gravis-style four-button controllers weren't available during the development phase, or reading two extra inputs completely exhausts the CPU, I think they should have been able to include the option and I'd even say it's more worthy of priority than worrying about people who, for real, would play a platformer with a fucking teevee remote. Other problems really were sidestepped - the "streaming audio" isn't really a problem except for synchronized sound during the animated cutscenes. It looks like they more or less nailed it (technically I mean, and it's also hard not to notice that the characters make gestures approximately in time with the English script, which is fairly interesting). Sound-wise, though, there's only ever one sound playing at a time, and there's generally not many sounds that can play in a single area (aside from the animated cutscenes which nicely overlay the game world). Nice awareness of the bullet-point this-is-what-corporate-wants-fixed, but what about the gameplay problems?

Why must you hit rubies (aka rupees) with your sword to collect them? Is having collision detection running on a few extra items that big a drain on CPU time? (The highest sprite count I'd expect for the game is: your life bar, Link, maybe 3-4 rubies onscreen, 3-5 enemies, maybe two weapon shots from Link, and another from an enemy. There could also be a key item somewhere.)

The world may never know why this is so. I don't know if the author meticulously recreated the details of the CD-I's technical issues for the Retro Gamer article he wrote (apparently in tandem with this online content) but apparently the audience is composed of fools who need to be Informed that the games are good, but something technical? Nah, who would care about that? Unfortunately, when the author of this piece set off to change the world, he forgot to make it convincing.
Post Reply