Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[SharkSkin-Man]

I had my PVM-20L4 dropped off today...
Initially thought it looked in decent condition, but on closer inspection there is a chip in the top left corner of the glass. Guess I'll have to live with that

I don't have a Scart to BNC cable yet, and I can't find anything in my room that I have composite or S-Video cables for, so all I've been able to do is power it on.

The on screen menu judders up/down a fair bit, which is a less than auspicious start, is that just because the screen has nothing to sync to - or is this thing looking ripe for the skip?

[kamiboy]

Jittery menu is normal, don't worry. My L2 and L5 do the same with no signal on. Once you do get something to display on it it'll be rock solid.

[SharkSkin-Man]

Ah good news, thanks for that.
I'm hoping the little chip isn't really noticeable during play, thankfully it's not bang in the middle or anything.

[kamiboy]

I had a CRT with a few long scratches across the middle of the screen. Hardly ever noticed them. In the corner should be no problem, even if visible. In games most of the focus is on the middle of the screen. That is why HUD's are always tucked away in a corner.

[SharkSkin-Man]

Received a Scart to BNC adapter today, with built in LM1881, so was finally able to test my PVM-20L4.

First test subject was my JPN Saturn w/cable from ebay wired for JPN Saturn to Euro Scart.
Got a diagonal rolling picture, in green only. Monitor states no sync present. I think I have a first party cable from a UK Saturn somewhere - does anybody think that might solve the problem because it will be using C-Video for sync?

Second up was PS2 Slim and pretty cheap looking third party scart cable.
Got an image on screen, but there was quite a lot of wavy looking interference, like ripples running through the whole image. I was expecting it to be rock solid on this screen. Crappy cable the cause perhaps? Again, I have an official first party cable somewhere I can dig out, unfortunately most of my gear is packed away.

Then my barely used PS2 Slim started making weird noises, and stopped loading properly so I gave up for the night...

Any advice gratefully received

[kamiboy]

Remember to toggle the EXT SYNC option on your monitor.

Using a composite video sync SCART is kind of a moot point if you are just going to route it through a sync stripper like the LM1881.

I think maybe the L series PVM monitors expect composite video, but when you route the signal through the LM1881 you are feeding them composite sync.

[SharkSkin-Man]

Yeah, it's set to EXT SYNC.
I don't know if the sync signal from the SS cable is too weak for the monitor to sync to? That's all I can really think of.

[fagin]

Make sure you have 75ohm BNC terminators on all inputs being used.

[SharkSkin-Man]

Oh, I had it in my head that terminators were only necessary on BVMs? I think the PVM should terminate automatically when nothing is looped-through?

[kamiboy]

For all it is worth my two L series PVM's do not need terminators. Also, as I said, your PVM prolly only wants to sync to composite video. If that is the case your problem is the LM1881, it should be taken out of the equation.

Unfortunately I do not have a breakout cable myself yet, I use a XSELECT-D4 to transcode RGB to component with my CRT's. I can tell you that I've only managed to connect RGB to my monitors with mixed results.

[SharkSkin-Man]

I did think that, re: the LM1881, but that would mean the PS2 wouldn't have synched either.
Looking at the JPN Saturn AV port pinout info I could find on google, I think the C-Sync output is too weedy - will find out when I find the UK spec scart cable!

[akumajo]

is PVM-9044QM good stuff ? I suppose its 15khz only
http://www.action.mc/pdf/index1035.pdf

[NWrain]

Do you have PAL or NTSC Saturn?

[SharkSkin-Man]

It's a Japanese Saturn.

[c0dehunter]

Did you get that issue resolved with your 20" PVM-20L? Since I am about to buy a Sega Saturn as well and I want to get a RGB cable as well and connect them to my 14" 14L system. Do you think it would work?

Thanks

[SharkSkin-Man]

I did.
My suspicions were correct; the official UK Saturn scart cable works perfectly, giving a solid, stable picture.

[kamiboy]

Mabe your problem was feeding the LM1881 composite sync. It is supposed to do its magic by stripping the sync signal from composite video, so it might not work when fed composite sync to begin with, but what do I know.

[SharkSkin-Man]

Yeah, could be that too. I'm just happy it works now, the picture quality is excellent.

[akumajo]

I may found a PVM-20M7MDE. I can see on datasheet that it's support 15,625kHz/ 31kHz.
Only PAL color system seems supported. What will be my options if I buy this monitor with NTSC consoles ?

[22point8]

I may found a PVM-20M7MDE. I can see on datasheet that it's support 15,625kHz/ 31kHz.
Only PAL color system seems supported. What will be my options if I buy this monitor with NTSC consoles ?

I think that's a 100hz version of the PVM-20M2MDE.

[akumajo]

well I can have it for 75€ shipped, my problem is about PAL...
should I pass ?

[NWrain]

With NTSC consoles, I would say no.

[akumajo]

an ntsc to pal converter should works no ?

[ryu]

an ntsc to pal converter should works no ?

according to fudoh framerate conversion is always bad for games

if there's a chance it's a 100hz crt and a chance it would only pal there's no way i'd take it.

i think i've read something from you sometime somewhere that implied you were from germany. if that's true you can let me know where exactly you're from, and you might be able to get a nice 21" pvm from me that handles ntsc, pal and secam at their native framerates.

[Fudoh]

Apparently the M7 has a 100Hz "flicker-free" function, but it can be switched off. I would be really surprised if NTSC (at least via component and RGB) wouldn't work with this function switched off. Composite and video which require a color decoder might be different.

Sometime ago there was a M7 listed on Ricardo (swiss auction site) and it listed full NTSC-compability. My guess is that the PAL just means that it's PAL-compatible (compared to NTSC-only models).

[akumajo]

really hard to find info about those monitors
on this datasheet http://www.medly.fr/moniteur.pdf it say PAL only

[ryu]

really hard to find info about those monitors
on this datasheet http://www.medly.fr/moniteur.pdf it say PAL only

so it's most likely pal only. aren't there many pvms around where you live? i'd wait for a better deal with ntsc handling.

[NWrain]

This web page says the monitor has "Field doubling scanning to reduce flicker phenomena." Could that mean it is deinterlacing 15khz signals, induce lag, and also be the reason it runs at 100HZ? If you convert the video signal into 50hz PAL, wouldn't you lose the advantage of owning a NTSC console?

http://www.videosystemer.com/shop/20-hi ... -260p.html

Woops, late to the party.

[SharkSkin-Man]

Second up was PS2 Slim and pretty cheap looking third party scart cable.
Got an image on screen, but there was quite a lot of wavy looking interference, like ripples running through the whole image. I was expecting it to be rock solid on this screen. Crappy cable the cause perhaps? Again, I have an official first party cable somewhere I can dig out, unfortunately most of my gear is packed away.

For anyone who cares, the official Sony PS2 scart cable gave a green, rolling no-sync picture. Many moons ago I had a scart switch that also hated this cable, so perhaps no surprise.

Any recommendations for good quality third party PlayStation scart cables?

[NWrain]

Then it most likely was wired for Japanese scart.

This scart cable was mentioned listed in the Xrgb mini thread. I don't know if they ship out of Germany, but that cable is very beefy.

http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_inf ... mized.html

I chose a random cheap Euro scart cable from the UK. I pair it with a sync strike and have not had any issues with 480i.
I personally think that the component cables are also a totally viable option.